Tigerfan

I guess I’d prefer we stick to sportsmanship surrounding competition than rehash off the mat character issues.

You sound like you’ve got people in mind. Do share.

My ballot: 125- Iowa guy 133- Iowa guy 141- Iowa guy 149- Metcalf 157- Iowa guy 165- Iowa guy 174- Iowa guy 184- Iowa guy 197- Iowa guy 285- Iowa guy I fully acknowledge that many on this list might be good people, this is competition only.

Behind Martin would have to be honorary PSU coach Jerry Sandusky.

Martin from ODU. No question.

I understand that Sloan had a bad loss. It happens, it’s early. That doesn’t mean whoever beat Sloan should leapfrog not only Sloan, but Elam as well AND the kid who beat that kid does too. Those 2 don’t have nearly the resume Elam has and do not deserve those high rankings. I know Flo uses prior years and overall resume to justify ranking guys who lose higher than those they just lost to, often. Why in this case they think a Fr from Little Rock rates a higher ranking than Elam just because he beat some dude who Elam has also beat. It’s crazy stupid.

Is there another sport played by more middle-aged, overweight people with drug habits? Golf notwithstanding.

Elam is the returning 3rd placer AT 197 and undefeated. Ok, I get Brooks. I get Buchanan, since he beat Rocky at NCAA’s twice in 2022. Hidlay has a comparable resume AT 184, and against common opponents (8-1 vs 9-1), but has never beat Elam. (Wrestlestat predicts an Elam win, btw) Elam has split with Sloan and beat Smith at last NCAA’s. He’s 14-4 vs Smith’s 7-7 against common opponents. Little isn’t even worth the comparison. Rankings are no big deal of course, but I couldn’t help but note that Smith, Little, and Sloan have losses THIS year. Sloan is the only one who started higher ranked than Elam(which I note he still is, despite losing to Smith). Dude has finished 5,4,3 and was Jr World Champ, and yet he’s ranked behind 6 guys, only 2 of which have ever beaten Elam or someone Elam lost to. He must be the most disrespected wrestler in the country right now.

I don’t think I like you anymore.

I’m no expert, but avoiding getting thrown at the D1 level requires significantly more effort/skill than “none”. I could not, in all likelihood, avoid getting tossed like a rag doll by Bryce Andonian. A slip at the international level requires the defensive wrestler to do much more than simply nothing. That said, I’ve seen many “slipped” headlocks that were simply theatrics to avoid the consequences of one’s opponent successfully digging a deep underhook. So slips are often melodrama and not genuine, imho.

As for Elam, the plan prior to OU on Friday, was for him to test the waters with a couple “easy” matches on Sat. Not hard to understand why his coaches thought his first match this season shouldn’t be against the only person to beat him 3x in his career. If that is ducking, so be it. As for Seltzer, Coach Smith mentioned after the OU loss that he needed to manage his weight better. I’m sure forcing him to make weight again on Sat was a bit of a “teachable moment”, which he clearly failed. Hopefully he figures it out.

I only caught big Elam’s fall in the finals. How did Rocky do?

Where did you find the brackets?

Missouri wins 30-12. Forfeits 197 as Elam is still absent. Do yourself a favor and watch the Edmond/Schwartz 141 match. OU won 11-4, but that couldn’t be more deceiving.

Data is fun! It’s too bad you’re limited by a lack of class data. Is there a way to simply look at each year and compare who finished lower than the previous year (thus including some non-4xers), then correlating that with their respective seeds? I wonder if a returning AA is more likely to repeat if they are a 2x returning AA, rather than one? Also, what is the average bonus points scored per seed? Could you factor that into your projections? For the record, you are a national treasure.

I think most coaches try to limit true freshman competitions the first semester to maintain eligibility for redshirts, at least until grades are posted, so they can be SURE that kids are taking advantage of the available support when necessary. There are obviously some exceptions, and individuals have varying degrees of academic readiness when they show up on campus. This focus goes largely unnoticed when it is successful. Different programs have different comfort levels with life balance issues, to be sure.

My understanding is that redshirting is primarily driven by academic caution rather than wrestling acumen and has been for a long time. Doing things the “right” way off the mat is a necessary precursor to D1 success for most. Establishing good academic and social habits. Wrestling improvements happen in the practice room, which redshirts continue to do anyway.

Did the 2,3,4 near fall go through? If so, I don’t think I’ve seen a 3 near fall called yet. I feel like wrestlers with leads are continuing to be offensive late in matches rather than stall, since leads feel less safe, but it’s still early.

Another interesting analysis, thank you! It does make me wonder, specifically in the case of Mizzou, how often do returning AA’s finish lower than the previous year, and on average, how likely are returning AA’s to continue improving across a career? I thought Mizzou had something like 64 returning points, but I don’t think I’ve seen any projections that have them equaling that total, much less improving on it.

Yes. The coaches wanted to rest him. You may notice that very few highly ranked guys will wrestle their team’s full schedule. That’s the trend, anyway.

I’ve been told that Hawks is the best pure athlete on the team. Which means Whiting is the better “wrestler” and he’s only a freshman. I was really hoping he’d make a jump this year to AA caliber, but this loss casts doubt on that. Reminds me a little of Bradley/Ellis in 2009. Ellis was returning starter (r12) and word was Bradley was beating him in the room (as well as a Nov open, iirc). Nonetheless, Ellis retained his spot and was Champ that year. Colton Hawks, 2024 NCAA 184lb Champ. Book it!

Mizzou has 5 duals and the Cougar Clash (SIUE) before the new year. I expect the decision who goes 2nd semester will be based on the sum total of their performances at that point. Most likely Whiting will get the nod in their next dual at ASU due to this win. Having them both available for duals gives them some flexibility and that can be an advantage in a dual setting. I’m sure nothing is set in stone just yet.

Where is Clayton Whiting? Him and Hawks split matches last year, and he has had a fair amount of hype as a recruit/redshirt, yet he didn’t even compete and it seems like Hawks is the widely expected starter. Is Whiting injured or just 3rd string?

The data clearly shows PSU, Iowa, OkSt, tOSU, and Mizzou, in that order, is the answer to the OP. One could argue swapping tOSU and OkSt. And I suppose you could try to argue Cornell above Mizzou, but considering Mizzou was ranked higher than Cornell in 6 of 9 weights in 2020(neither had a ranked HWT), I’d lean towards Mizzou (shocking, I know). Nonetheless, Cornell and Mizzou are neck and neck for 5th. There is considerable distance between those 5 and whoever one would rank 7-10. VT, NCsT, Minny, and either Michigan or Nebraska would round out the top 10. You’re welcome.

Whoever it was, O’Toole looked dominant, and noticeably more muscular than in years past.