ThreePointTakedown

Seriously? Texas and Florida governors.... wait we'll just use the one example... Florida governor uses state money to send unwitting migrants to Massachusetts in winter with no food, water, no place to stay, many of them not dressed for that weather, or notice to local officials... and that is President Biden's fault? Tells me a lot.

Those were all questions. No facts.

I appreciate the tactic but it still doesn't take away that 3.3% of the population is undocumented. Based off the article I included, if you want to read it, they do not create as much of a burden as you have been led to believe by FAIR(or at least the refutation has not been challenged yet, so we'll have to wait and see). They commit less crime. And they do work and spend money that goes into the tax coffers. Rather than having questions that try to insinuate an answer. Come with numbers. Their out there. How much would our economy suffer if we lost all the undocumented immigrants? A good % of food is harvested by migrant labor. construction workers, restaurant industry. Lots of places and people will suffer if we just kick them out. But again, I have a feel you know all this. Can you refute it? And point me to the bill that republicans put forward to help with education, health care, mental health care, homelessness, food insecurity, education, or anything that addresses your 'but what about people here' argument?

do any of you click links? Jeez.

Where is the damage for which you speak? And remember the bill the orange guy scuttled because he wants to win and not go to jail. I understand your unwillingness to see fault in your team. But don't lose your ability to see people as human.

Which law? What's the language in it?

Owns being more humane to people? I imagine he's not losing much sleep over that.

The link I included in the word THIS goes through all the ways they disagree with the FAIR method. They have a few points of contention with how the numbers are put together. Sorry I didn't realize the miscommunication.

We keep coming back to that. And we all agree. But again, no or at least not many republicans are offering up more money for education or food stamps or head start or pre-k or health care or homeless shelters. I didn't say you were doing anything. but that you didn't answer the question gives me pause as to what you think of those policies and practices. Care to answer the question as asked?

That article just reports on the same FAIR study that was debunked as flawed. Doesn't try to rehabilitate it with new methods or numbers.

So we can agree that what 45 did to, way too many migrants and many of them children, with some of their policies was inhumane and cruel? That someone wanted to stop being cruel to people, makes you upset? Granted their are other issues but fundamentally they are people coming to a country built on the back immigration, they should be greeted with a bit more respect and dignity, right?

This is not an attack on you but THIS calls into question the $150b amount. "Merely using the correct numbers reduces FAIR’s estimated fiscal cost of illegal immigrants from $116 billion to $3.3 to $15.6 billion – and that is without touching their flawed static approach to counting how illegal immigrants impact the economy. This does not mean that the negative fiscal impact of illegal immigration is $3.3 to $15.6 billion annually, it merely means that using the correct numbers massively reduces their cost estimate." So there are two opinions. The numbers and method of the second have not been combed through. Maybe there is a middle. But it seems, from this article that your info inaccurate and your conclusions might be skewed as a result. How do we fix the problem if we can't figure out what the problem is? You seem to want to rely on a simple solution to a very nuanced problem.

I think I've posited a few ideas. Some that revolve around increasing capacity to process migrants at the border, akin to yours. That's an idea. Understand the reason they are fleeing their home countries. Help to address those issues. It helps them, it helps us. Win win. But to leave people to suffer on your door step when you have the capacity to, at the very least, give them a bed and a meal, is cruel. Do you think the people presenting themselves at our border mean us harm? Also, the other parts of the argument that I've seen, 'what about the people here that need help?' Agreed. They need help. Lets talk about them too and what they need. But the discussion seems to trend in the same way. Like everyone is looking for a handout and you want to refuse them of help because of the simple fact that they need it. Or please clarify if I am wrong.

Have I said that?

Ok. So 11million are here. That sounds about right. If memory serves that's been about the number for a few years. Looking at research the number has been coming down. But tracking up recently. Why close the border entirely? If border patrol can handle a certain amount, shouldn't we process people at that capacity? https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-and-asylum/asylum/the-affirmative-asylum-process#:~:text=To apply for asylum in,physically present in the U.S.&text=To apply for asylum%2C you,1-year filing deadline). There is a process for people seeking asylum. Remaining in Mexico is unrealistic. If they are seeking asylum they get a chance to make their case.

Not going to address any of the counterpoints? No examples of actual undocumented immigrants. Didn't chose. Myriad of other solutions besides cage the US(not the whole US btw, just one side). Just hand wave me away as crazy and a victim. Convenient.

What is bleeding, how does that manifest? How would describe the amount the system could 'handle'? What metrics should we look at?

First paragraph, muddy the water so its perfectly fine not to absorb or acknowledge anything I write. Great way to start off. Kudos. How will our 'sovereignty' be effected by increasing the budget and resources to process all the people that want to come in? So putting every US citizen in a cage and locking the door is your best idea? Immigration is a net positive in almost all respects. People here will send money to family back home. Improving their situations and helping to stabilize other countries that you probably would be upset to learn if the US is helping with tax dollars. Again, at no point has an example been of 'illegal' immigrants being flown around. They are following the process. So as much as you might like to think of them using that term it is wrong and you are now using it as a pejorative that only helps you to ignore their humanity and to see them as a threat. If you have issue with the process then argue that. But that point has been debunked several times. Chose to go? Explain to me from the myriad reporting of the one instance that I know of(plane to Mass.) that they were given an adequate explanation of where they were going and what to expect? Chose? They were tricked. There's plenty of evidence to support it. I would love to see any refuting that point. Regardless of how you were tricked, fraud is still fraud and you are not held responsible for being tricked. Also 'chose' to come here? What a tiny comfortable bubble you must live in to use that word to describe the journey some people make to get here. I'm curious if you have looked into the conditions that some people in central and south america are leaving. Leaving only to risk a journey of, sometimes 1000+ miles on foot, through jungle and desert. How are these not the kind of people we want? It is, I agree, teetering on criminal that we do not have the resources available to process the numbers at the border. I agree we should increase the budget for facilities, judges, courts, and food for people at the border. So they can be processed in a efficient and humane way. People opposing the flights, in question, have been fundamentally wrong on all the important details. No retraction or acknowledgment of the mistake, if it was a mistake. I have my doubts. Then you make your little quip and then go and do the exact same thing they did by calling them 'illegals'. You had a chance to read all the posts and do the research and read the transcripts before posting. I'm guessing you didn't. So you feel that they are 'illegal' when they aren't, despite saying you are perfectly happy with people doing what they were doing. So which is it 'ignorance' or 'malevolence'? Hint, its the second one. Its just lazy and mad. Guitar or Bassist?

Ideally what does 'fixed' look like to you?

At each instance it has been determined that they are not 'illegal' as you put it. Its not that you are upset, be upset, its the WHY that is still fuzzy. Is it just money? What's the deal? Makes it seem like you don't like immigrants at all. I hope that's not the case. So why is it you don't like migrants that have done nothing wrong at all, are being moved around to aid in processing?

Would love to hear what you would call someone that sends a plane full of vetted migrants to Massachusetts in the middle of the night, in winter, without telling anyone that they are coming? Some of the people woefully unprepared for that weather and without places to stay. Yep, that's a monster. A feckless fraction of a human trying to inspire people by hurting a common enemy, the migrants and the opposition party. Disgraceful. Seems as if you're laughing because you can't muster the courage to agree with me or to defend your position. Cuz your point probably is, and tell me if I'm wrong; that send the migrants to sanctuary cities was to make a point about the border being 'open' and that its a mess the President needs to address. Great. That the border is a mess is, A, something we agree on, and B. Something Republicans are not interested in fixing. They scuttle any legislation to help as 'Not enough' but also reject a bill they helped put together because they don't want someone other then the great orange hope to get credit. A racist-adjacent party is trying to say they will 'fix' the border issue? That is the thing you should be laughing at. They have no interest in foreign aid that might help to curb immigration to the US because 'we have people at home we can't take care of'. Except they kill legislation to help them as well because 'big government'. How is the hypocrisy so blatant but you won't see it. You're going to come back with whataboutism or just not address anything because I'm a loon or at least that is your excuse for not taking a hard look at the beliefs of that party.

What was the glaring difference between late night flights into NYC and the planes from Texas to Martha's Vineyard? Answer: There was thought and consideration given to the people prior to and upon their landing as to what they needed next. Desantis made it clear that dropping them off with no warning and little provisions was the point. Making it so that people needed to rush and find places for people to stay in the middle of the night. You are defending monsters. Sorry that you can't see it.

The reporting says 'illegal'. I didn't see that she acknowledged the status of the minors one way or the other. Did you? Is there a transcript of the press conference? She said, 'unaccompanied minors'. Are minors illegal? Nope. Sorry, not going to do the work you should've done already. On to the next point. That we've agreed they are not illegal. Glad we're all on board. We shouldn't help children? And it really doesn't matter what you say to that question because you've just put yourself on the side of 'not these kids' and that makes you a monster. Thank you for confirming all the things I thought about people that champion this issue. You want to hate children and brand them as illegal to justify it. You don't like one political party so you use children as a means of scoring points by trying to HELP. CHILDREN! Could you use this justification to do anything else? Say pay tax dollars to help churches in the way of vouchers. Take away IVF or abortion care for women. Put up razor wire to hurt and mame migrants trying to make a better life for themselves. It seems more and more that the punishment is the goal. You want to make someone else hurt for your gratification. In this instance you would rather us not help children. Give me a reason why we should not be flying these children to wherever to try to help them? I know none of you will have the guts to answer that question because it betrays everything you stand for. If you're going to do this you better have the receipts and you don't. Not even close.

Argument from Ignorance I'd say I expected more but that would be a lie. Pivoting, dodging, deflecting, and dodging are your MO. Facts, less so. Until you can be honest this is almost always going to end with you holding the bag. Good luck.

We should just trust you? Go figure.