Tom formerly Tofurky

When did this thread become about recruiting high school kids as THE measure of success? To ignore the following finishes at Nationals for Iowa from 2013 to 2024 is absolutely ludicrous. Iowa: 4, 4, 2, 5, 4, 3, 4, COVID, 1, 3, 2, 5 Since you mentioned them, here are how those other teams have finished at Nationals in that same time frame: Ohio State: 6, 6, 1, 3, 2, 2, 2, COVID, 9, 13, 4, 8 Oklahoma State: 2, 3, 7, 2, 3, 13, 3, COVID, 3, 14, 18, 10 Minnesota: 3, 2, 8, 17, 7, 17, 8, COVID, 7, 11, 15, 22 Cornell: 5, 7, 5, 7, 8, 7, 7, COVID, DNC, 7, 3, 2 Michigan: 33, 17, 11, 9, 10, 4, 5, COVID, 5, 2, 6, 3 Nebraska: 13, 11, 9, 8, 9, 9, 10, COVID, 12, 5, 8, 9 Virginia Tech: 10, 8, 10, 4, 6, 8, 11, COVID, 14, 8, 9, 7 NC State: 22, 19, 16, 11, 17, 4, 17, COVID, 6, 10, 10, 11 Not one of those teams you mentioned has finished in the top five of the team race since 2013, but Iowa has every single year. This thread is not about how well Tom Brands recruits blue chip high school kids, but whether or not he should be replaced as head coach based on the actual results of the wrestlers he has on the University of Iowa roster. I argue that, based on those real results as seen above, Tom Brands is the second to best coach in NCAA Division I in the Cael/PSU-era. For my money is there is Cael, then there is Brands (MAYBE Grey and Bormet), and then there is everyone else.

I would stop at saying that it doesn't appeal to recruits. In his 18 years as head coach (not including the COVID year where no one competed), Tom Brands routinely recruits among the best guys in the country and his teams have finished in the top five 16 times. Hell, he recruited one of the best high school wrestlers of all times and him and his staff developed him into a three-time National Champion. The Hawkeyes never suffer for numbers and their second tier guys would be starters at 75-80% of other Division I programs. To address the "authoritarians not innovators" comment, I wonder if it's more appropriate to say "brawlers versus dancers." One is very brutal and harsh, where the other is more elegant and graceful. I don't know... That said, the old Iowa style I grew up with is not my style, but I also love what Iowa brings to the wrestling world.

Casey Cunningham

I would guess that with Howe and Kennedy long gone by now, all their best talent having left the university, and an absolutely dismal 2023-24, Storniolo at Northwestern might be feeling some heat.

I have to wonder if there are two things at play here: 1. Tom Brands' expectations.. 2. Beth Goetz's (Iowa Director of Athletics) expectations On the one hand, this has to feel like another miserable failure to Tom Brands. Only one guy in the finals, only four All-Americans, finishing "a lowly" fifth in the team standings, one spot/1.5 points behind Iowa State, and 105.5 points out of first... One the other hand, Beth Goetz may see it as a top five team finish (one finals win away from being tied for third), nine National Qualifiers, a National finalist (on ESPN) and four All-Americans. She may also see/understand that Brands' teams have never finished in less than eighth place (2007, his first season as head coach was when they finished there), and in 18 seasons the Hawkeyes have brought the University 14 team trophies, including winning four team titles. Other than Sanderson, there isn't a single other coach in NCAA Division I wrestling with that consistency in the last two decades. All the while, Brands' teams keep generating a TON of press (eyes on the U), continue to sell out dual meets and the donations to the program keep rolling in the door. Men's Wrestling is easily the gold standard of athletics programs on their campus, and rightfully so. If I had to guess (and this is just a guess), Tom Brands' job is probably pretty secure at this point.

I didn't say they did. I said that I guess that they will, but sometime in the future. I have no inside knowledge about the program or money raised. The excitement surrounding the program appears to be a main driver towards the success everyone hopes they attain.

This cannot be stated enough and is a major part of the model that NWCA pushes out to new and existing coaches via their Convention and CEO Leadership Academy. Koll is tight with Moyer and is the guest speaker when it comes to raising money for programs.

If he learned nothing about fundraising from Rob Koll, then TSU hired the wrong guy. My guess is that they meet their goal... I just hope it doesn't become a moving goal post in the meantime.

There may be some of that at various places, but the word around town with a lot of recruits about being admissible to the college(s) of your choice and earning academic money to help yourself has sunk in for a lot of guys this past decade.

D3 Elmhurst College had some success in the mid-2010s with three former D1 guys. One of them upset the #1 seed at D1 Nationals a few years before landing at EC, while another was a top-five recruit nationally coming out of high school and made the blood round in D1s for a small school in Stillwater, Oklahoma.

Don't forget that D2 William Jewell College in suburban Kansas City, MO "paused" their men's program this past September, with their team on campus, and only three years after they brought it back from the proverbial grave. Most private schools are struggling financially, especially those tied to religions. Donors are aging and dying, fewer younger folks are attending said schools for religious pursuits, and tuition costs are spiraling out of control. The second "enrollment cliff" is predicted to hit again within the next five years, and you'll see a lot of these small schools either cutting budgets to the bone via eliminating programs or closing all together.

Tone deaf

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/college/lindenwood-to-make-sweeping-cuts-in-athletics-eliminating-10-programs/article_fb606a9e-9092-11ee-beaf-ff06f7dd0d01.html Sad

Smaller religiously-affiliated IHL (D1 and otherwise) offer athletics to grow enrollment. Sacred Heart, a Catholic university, is no exception. Hiring lay people (non-religious professionals who are usually funded by their orders, but are in short order anymore) is very expensive. At $66,910 this year alone for cost of attendance, SHU needs numbers, as that cost is a direct reflection of operating budgets across campus. SHU will never care about athletic success. Providing 50-plus "D1" opportunities to wrestlers who seek that, and who are willing to pay for that privilege, is what they seek.

They had Indiana native Jason Tsirtsis on staff for a bit. I think he fit the bill, yeah?

Old news, but I haven't been on in a while. Some recent non-D1s who could have (and did) compete fairly well against D1s: Nick Becker - UW-Parkside Joe Rau - Elmhurst College Ryan Prater - Elmhurst College Brandon Reed - Lindsey Wilson University Jason Shinoster - UW - Whitewater There are more, but I am in a time crunch.

I mean, I SEE it, but c'mon...

No

Agreed; look at Buvaisar Saitiev, for example. Would anyone argue he is among the best wrestlers any of us has ever seen? Near the end of his career, he had to pick and choose his spots, and I don't think for a moment that the RWF didn't give him a little help to earn that ninth World/Olympic Gold in 13 attempts. (he didn't compete for a sport in 1999) His losing to Slay in 2000, Isagadjiev in 2002 (domestically), Ganev in 2006 at the WC, and to Murtazaliev the next year at Nationals makes him no less great in my book. he remains my favorite wrestler. All that being said, and I am sure it appears elsewhere in this thread, but John Smith competed in the Soviet era, which prohibited him from seeing a slew of representatives from the now former Soviet Bloc countries, as well as the real depth of wrestling that the Caucasus region produces and exports as the modern guys do. I am placing not fault on him here. That was not in his control. We will never know how that would have impacted his run, but we can be sure that it would have to some degree.

Isn't Smith performing the long goodbye?

Will Smith be head coach when Merrill makes it to campus?

I see what the OP is saying here. The fanbase has repeatedly anointed YD as the next American great, based on his results leading into his Senior level career. I don't think those people were exactly making a stretch on their hopes, but I also don't think the OP should be blasted for pointing out YD's senior level results either. It's not like his dad is on here going on and on and on about how YD walks on water and that USAW should be clearing the way for his kid. That said, I think all of this goes to show just how freaking tough it is out on that Senior circuit to consistently make national teams, let alone earn medals. That's no slight against young John, and even he knows that nothing is a given for what he hopes to accomplish. Musukaev sure as heck isn't getting any worse. I, for one, hope he does win some World/Olympic golds, as he works his @$$ off, and is a really good dude to boot. #TeamYianniD

Soon to be former MEN'S PROGRAM at William Jewell College (D2) had 6.5 scholarships. FIFM

NAIA is 10 per team max - NAIA Guide for the College-Bound Student-Athlete - PlayNAIA https://play.mynaia.org/media/1091/2023_naia_guide_college_bound_student.pdf

Soon to be former William Jewell College (D2) had 6.5 scholarships.