ThreePointTakedown

What does that have to do with our conversation? Have we brought up anything that is laid out in an article of the constitution?

Could people have experience and knowledge that might be useful to us regardless of legality of citizenship?

I just want to make sure I understand your position. They should only have their opinions heard or considered if they are a citizen of this country. Why should we not take their opinions into account? Might they have some ideas that could work, here? Should people with work or school visas be heard in conversations like these?

Why should they be excluded for that reason?

Yes. They are allowed to have an opinion on what could be improved upon. Should they not be included in a conversation? Why or why not?

We = society(this shouldn't be too controversial) Need = things we agree we can't live without(this is a topic for debate, I'm sure) As I have mentioned in previous discussions, maybe not with you, but at some periods in our history groups were kept from those conversations(who we allow as members of our society and with what benefits, and what they feel is needed). Those groups had their options to advance and prosper taken or significantly hobbled by those of privilege. Now it is our job to acknowledge those actions and deeds and try to make up for them. Our culture needs to change so as to include their voices in these conversations. Does it mean that some, who have benefitted from privilege, will see their advantages trimmed a bit? I hope so. Will they be upset about it? Probably(who likes changing the rules of a game you're clearly winning?). Will it end up helping, even the privileged, in the end? Fingers crossed. If it doesn't? I give as much thought to the privilege surviving and thriving, in a new and different political/economic environment, as they have given to the poorest and least privileged. Which is to say not much. Different countries, that aren't so hung up on their own meritless exceptionalism(or at least have started coming to terms with their mistakes and have worked to address them), religious fervor(which is pretty toxic if you ask me), or maintaining a cast system(and we, very much, do) have done some interesting things with regards to health care, education, and international relations. In many ways catching and surpassing us in all of those categories. Cue opening monologue from the News Room. It may hurt to admit but we might not be as great a country as we were told when we believed in other sensational things, like Santa. Hope this helps to clarify. But ya, their explanation of the tax system is wrong. Former Labor Secretary (youtube vid of him explaining where your tax dollars go) Feel free to watch his other videos, they're good and informative. From someone who has experience in the field. If you want to include links to pages or videos that disagree or present contrary info, please add. I would love to learn.

That's not at all how the tax system works. That is dishonest to insinuate that this fictional story applies to everyone or anyone. That it might make you feel better to think that people are stealing from you is not indicative of reality. That others get riled up about your story is not evidence of its truthfulness. The social contract is that we agree to pay for the things we need. Some pay more because they have benefited the most. We vote for people to make those decisions. If you want to change something, convince me without making appeals to emotion. You know that a very small number of rich people 'steal' WAY more of your tax dollars then all the poor combined? Why not tell a story about that?

I'm sorry that you feel you need to personally hold them accountable or have so much contempt for anyone who, isn't coming to his defense mind you, is just reminding the mob that we should hesitate to pile on a young adult(if this helps you process it) for the actions that he clearly has little to no control of and for reasons you know nothing about but are happy to judge. Your approach is toxic and while its probably satisfying to you, as you imagine hurting people is satisfying to others(see the parallel yet?), it isn't actually doing any good(you, him, or us. whether you care or not, I find it important to point out the pointlessness of your vendetta). It seems as if you are incapable of seeing nuance in a situation that probably has much that we don't see. Taking a step back and regulating your emotions would probably help you process the facts a bit better and help you come to a more rational conclusion. In that, if this were you, and you weren't aware of the causes or, dare I say 'triggers' that make you become unglued. You probably wouldn't appreciate strangers talking about it and scheming to derail any plans you might have for perusing an athletic career at another school. The kid in a brace, might be able to make a case of negligence against the school. Also get his medical needs paid in full for a few years after they graduate. Hope they recover fully and can compete again soon. Now I totally expect you to ignore everything I wrote as 'hilarious'. If so, great. Glad I could help. Or pick one small issue to dunk on and claim victory. I really have no point to this paragraph just my attempt to predict your(or your partner's) response. Because you are cliches and thankfully a dying breed. It takes a village. Learning to ask for help and advocating for your needs, be it physical, emotional, or mental is difficult but important with lots of upside. We tend to try to fight these battles on our own. We don't need to. Find someone you trust that can help. Its worth it.

Thanks. But seriously, try to leave kids alone. They don't deserve or benefit from mob justice. As satisfying as it might be for you or others in this forum.

He's not a fully formed adult yet and by his actions he's not able to regulate his emotions or responses. Something akin to how a kid would react. So ya, I think kids still applies. In perfect world we wouldn't need to put this out into a public forum where arm chair qb's can have a turn and perpetuate the outrage culture we have. The coach could've stepped in and done something. The parents could've gotten the kid some help. I understand the reaction to be mad. I was mad. It would seem something so obvious to 'me'(we all like to think everyone thinks or feels like we do) is obvious to everyone. The ref didn't think so at the time. Was he wrong or not in a position to see it clearly? Maybe. Are there things going or went on in that kid's life that might explain his reaction? Probably. Does he understand them or have control of them? Seemingly not. I simply suggest to take a breath and hold off on condemning the kid in a public forum. Because as we've seen in other situations, there is a greater than 0% chance that someone takes it too far. I just urge caution because of that. That's all.

You obviously don't 'know' but I imagine you'll continue believing it. Can't help you there. Didn't say you did or were. My objection was to continue the conversation at all. Potentially bringing more KIDS and they are kids, under the spot light for the hyenas to jump on. (the kid obviously has issues, what do you get for exposing them to the world? its not interesting or news its just something you can point to and say this is what's making me mad today as if you need a reason, if you just want to be mad then be mad, i'd talk to someone cuz its seems like that could be an issue in and of itself, but he's not a kardashian or a politician. Is what he did wrong? yes. Should the coach have stepped in to stop it the second time? yes. Should that coach be reprimanded or made to answer for his in/actions? yes, other then that what is the point? you're piling on a kid and getting quite heated that someone would disagree with you or the group you support. Sounds a bit like guilt or shame to me. could be wrong. long parenthetical here aaaaaaaand... stop) I understand it seems you would rather yell and pout instead of ask questions for clarity. Fine. Be a victim on someone's behalf if that's what you are in to. If you were really interested, you'd ask instead of continue to make errant claims. You obviously are offended. Your posts are dripping with it. You're itching for a fight. I'll bet you get all tingly when you pull the site back up. Hoping for a response so you can stay agitated. Does the calm give you anxiety? Like the something worse is coming so you need to create conflict where there is none. Again, that sounds exhausting. I suggest mediation and deep breathing. Text is not a great medium to infer intent. You've done that a few times. Try another tactic if you want a different result. If you want a different result that is. GL.

So being a douche is a prerequisite? Interesting. Big, anonymous, words from such a tiny person. Have at it. Swim in the crap with everyone else. I'll keep trying to toss you a pool noodle in the hopes you realize how toxic you are, but since I know what you're going to do to yourself with it... Take the high road everyone.

I was responding to someone asking who they wanted to include in this conversation, now. Are you interested in throwing more kids under the bus for the gratification of strangers? I personally don't think that's a good idea. Again, that could've been misinterpreted from the original post. A simple fix would've been to ask instead of showing your ass. Considering I am correcting you for the second time. You were mistaken as to my point. Instead of asking clarifying questions to figure it out. You assumed you knew what I meant and tried to turn it around on me in a rather aggressive manner. That was unnecessary. Now if you are offended that your words were taken out of context you could try to clarify. But it doesn't seem like you'll be interested in clearing things up. Considering that having the opportunity you doubled down. If antagonizing someone is the only way you know of to handle a disagreement I feel bad for you. It seems exhausting to have only one reaction to adversity. Best of luck. I imagine you'll respond with another attempt to demean me personally. Because that's how you reacted to the pushback you received. If I had to guess its a pattern. Trying to reason with you may be fruitless. But I'll take swing at it and see if you are interested in plotting a different course. However it seems as if you are taking this topic personally and that may have effected your response or the interpretation of mine. I'm sorry if I offended you by asking that we take it easy on a child. If you feel differently I would love to hear your side.

This is disappointing. No surprising. Just... yeah.

Interesting take. But my comment was about future athletes that might find their way on a forum for similar reasons. If that was confusing to you, I apologies. If you want to break the news of a kid being a kid or a dog biting man, there is nothing I can do to stop you. What you get out of pointing a microscope at a kid, I don't know if I'll ever understand. My questions were about the current situation that has already been thoroughly spoken of in public. It seemed as if there is no additional harm to consider cutting the kid some slack. Thanks for the attempted 'dunk' though. Are you satisfied with my responses?

Or... and hear me out... we don't talk about it in a public forum. We can just take it straight to the coach or AD via email. Letting them know your concern(with any video evidence you've accumulated) and that an athlete of theirs is garnering attention for a reason that might be embarrassing for the school and the program. If things have not grown to a fever pitch it would be nice to give them an opportunity to address the issue quietly. Probably better for the athlete too. Follow up question: is a suspension an adequate punishment? Would that fact that he now has to live with this the rest of his career/life, enough? Any coach that takes him on, I imagine/hope, will be aware of his past.

So, my experience buying a Big Ten ticket: Multiple sites selling the same ticket for different prices. Lame! Bought the cheaper of the two. FYI it was $134 as seen on the site. When I went to purchase said ticket, the invoice said, "Ticket Price $118" . Service fee of $36.**. and another fee of $3.** for a total of $157.13. All in all, not cool.

Currently on two different sites. Looking at seats in section 213 one is $126 the other is $151. Does Xfinity have a site that sells tickets directly? These resale sites suck.

I've missed the last few so maybe its just that but $219 for a tourney ticket seems a little steep. Any thoughts?

I can appreciate the feeling of not getting accomplished what you hoped to accomplish. Thank you for fighting the good fight when you can. Do stand up and push back against bad/harmful ideas. Don't let them get a foothold. Bad actors need to be addressed at every opportunity. Here's to more good days.

Do dry programs go hand in hand with heavy religious influence? PSU, AU(under Cody), and NCState? How do kids feel about it?

Grace almost always comes at the expense of others. 20's or no he is obviously not in control of his emotions. Had something like this been on line a few years ago, it may have prevented a lehigh athlete from missing the national tournament after being kneed in the head. Hate that it had to come to this but someone should've gotten in front of this. Parents can be emotionally blind to negative aspects of a child's behavior. Seeing it as a reflection of them or their parenting, we can rationalize it away as a single occurrence. When in fact it has become a pattern we are unwilling to admit to. Like I said, tricky situation. I don't envy anyone in the position of having to address it by enacting policy or administering sanctions. We should learn from this be more open to holding and being held accountable when those under our supervision start to act out in such a way. We can do it. Kumbaya! Namaste!

Case by case basis

For the most part its honesty through paranoia or mutually assured destruction. If everyone went about it this way no one would survive or have many working limbs. I see where you're coming from and keeping someone on the mat that seems to have had no consequences for, what seems like, repeated rule breaking with intent to harm could and maybe should bounce back on the coach. At the very least could keep him from being offered a better job somewhere else. Not that ADs regularly surf these message boards looking for hot goss. But if something like this was brought to my attention as someone on a hiring committee, I'd need a really good answer from that coach as to how they handled that situation. What they did wrong, if anything, and how they will keep it from happening again. Just keep in mind. This is or was a kid we're talking about. Some grace should be offered to them before outright condemnation. Like I mentioned before, perhaps there are underlying reasons for these outbursts that they are just not equipped to handle. If he can't see it then it is the responsibility of those around him; coaches, trainers, counselors of each stripe to step in and address the behavior with any and all methods.

"Dirty" wrestlers, I assume, do it for a reason. Overbearing parents or coaches. The social pressure to succeed. Shame in not winning or living up to 'potential'. All of those are powerful forces in the mind of a young athlete/person. I hope he gets to the root of why he thought that was an acceptable reaction. But yes, coaches through their institutions need to be held accountable for these kinds of incidents. Especially egregious and repeated incidents. We need to be better, across the board not just the wrestling community, about the acceptability of seeking the care for mental health or trauma issues. Its likely, and through the thread its fairly well confirmed, that the issue occurred years ago and should have been addressed then. Suing a school likely puts a smaller program in jeopardy of being cut. So that is a tricky decision to make but someone should be held to account.