ThreePointTakedown

How do you reconcile #2 and #4? Seems like they contradict each other. What are differences between them?

Be that as it may. Getting things done can suck sometimes. People are people and they can almost always do better. Accountability is great and we should strive for it. In the mean time lets do good for people because its the right thing to do.

So we've agreed that there are legitimate reasons to ask for help. Why are we not giving it? We have the resources. Is it patriotic to horde astronomical wealth that your family will be able to live off of and never need to work? Use that wealth to 'donate' to campaigns that would loosen laws to help you accumulate more and/or retain more of what you've accumulated? Seems to go against the accountability argument. Once personal accountability has been established and wealth/affluence has been gained, are we not accountable to those that we could help but choose not to?

Do go on?

I read the post about the work issue. Do you know all the details involved with making the adjustments to the product and how it might effect both directions of the chain? And does everyone have to listen to your suggestions about everything? What steps did you take to address all the issues that could potentially arise from making the change to the product? Sorry, probably not questions you anticipated being asked. I understand venting is important. Answer if you want. Otherwise I'll consider the issue covered. Comment about the water line scenario, if you take action and 'fix' a pipe that is under the purview of the city/county/state you would, quite possibly, be sited for a crime. If not mess things up more. Not sure how it fits with the 'personal accountability'. 'I will leave that to the experts rather than messing something up way more.' is a level of self realization that is commendable. Then call the city to let them know.

Solid state batteries are looking to lower the battery weight by more than 50% for similar or longer range. That could help with the tire issue. Ya, dumb ev buyers. Stupids.

They do, on paper. But those darn human proclivities mess it all up.

Not sure capitalism would support that, at least in its current form, but we can dream.

Again, where is this happening? Rather than talking in generalities, site an instance where this is happening and why it should be concerning to everyone?

Great. So realizing you're in a bad place. Is asking for help the same as blaming? What situation(s) most concerns you that has to do with people blaming others for their lot in life?

Have I? I try not to. Would love to see examples.

That sounds like a traumatic child hood. I'm sorry.

Please don't try to tell me what I know. Life is all what-if's. Rarely does a general principle of right and wrong work for each and every situation in someone's life. Having a conversation about right/wrong or good/bad is, I agree, impossible to discuss generally. Precisely because situations are way to nuanced for something so broad to apply. Sorry that the conversation can't be more satisfying or resolute. It is regrettable but that's the nature of such a broad and sweeping principle.

Whatever I feel is right or serves my interest best, at the time.

I'm not sure you have an accurate view of these situations. Addicts don't really advocate for themselves to be helped. That's not how addiction works. Ok. Real simple. Spend more money on education and treatment for addicts and the homeless. Studies have shown that whatever is spent is paid back with productivity and lives saved. There is, literally, no down side to helping these people. It seems like you don't want to help people that you feel are not worthy of help. Is that right? If so what is your metric for determining the criteria? Is it just the nebulous term that you haven't defined, 'personal accountability'?

No one has demanded it. As a society we benefit from this happening less and less. Prevention is better than action following a diagnosis. Interesting that you didn't answer my follow up questions. Just kept repeating your line of personal responsibility. What is needed; education, firstly to dispel the fallacious reasoning that it is a choice, in some situations it isn't. The more people get comfortable say that its a choice the less likely resources will be made available to treat and prevent others from ending up there. What to do about people, well your opinion and your voice is actively harming people by repeating a message that is wrong. Medical science and economics would tell you that spending money to prevent these things pays back the investment over time in productivity and lives saved. How much is a life worth? I'll be that comes back in further conversations. People that peddle wrong information, that have actually authority, should be held accountable. That they keep getting reelected or whatever because they spout garbage is a travesty. I'd be embarrassed if they represented me. What fosters resentment is your trope of personal responsibility. Not understanding that it is to some extent and is NOT in others. That we are all better off if these things are treated and prevented, not just band aids put over them for fear of losing an election because to much ignorant information is out there.

Correct me if I'm wrong but this reads as another example of 'What I want at the time is right and if your approach to a situation is different then its wrong'

Are there victims within those groups? People that had little to no choice but to fall into handicapped, addicted, old, or homeless?

what is needed to help these groups more or prevent more people from falling into these buckets? And what do we do about the people keeping us from being able to help these groups more?

I'm sure some people use it for that exact reason. Add: migrants, trans people, Democrats, any person with a faith other than mine

When you start saying 'right and wrong' it seems as if there is moral code that is implied. Because there are always shades of grey with right things that can make them wrong and vise versa. The trope of robbers blaming cops for ending up in jail is just such an example. They feel they are doing good but society says they need to be removed from society for a time. Robin Hood, was celebrated for stealing from people thought to be worth stealing from. Dillinger. That's why I like using terms like good or harm. Right or wrong locks you into a position which makes it harder to see the nuance in the situation or your bias to it.

Not sure if you answered the question or rathe you contradicted yourself, perhaps unknowingly. Sounds like you're saying, do whatever I can do to take care of me, then my family, then others around me. If I'm getting that wrong please correct me. Did you mean to imply that 'personal accountability' must be carried out in an ethical/moral/judicial way? So as most good and least harm are visited upon society as a residue of your actions? Because, 'take care of me and my family' could skew in some pretty ugly ways if everyone is left to interpret that for themselves.

What is grey, just about everything. The 'personal responsibility/accountability' will differ from situation to situation. All I'm saying is that using the term 'personal responsibility/accountability' is nice and is probably comforting but it shuts down any nuanced conversation. Because they will be situation specific. Grey about blaming vs accountability, in my experience is based on the perceived moral superiority and power/influence of one side vs another. They both could be considered in the right but through objective lenses there could be facts that are indisputable. Rather than talking in generalities, we could have a conversation about a topic, specifically, rather than an obscure term like 'personal accountability' that cannot be defined.

I take it you are opting out of the conversation.

Playing it straight-as-an-arrow as usual. Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana! You get that one for nuthin. enjoy!