fishbane

Job posting is up on the website. No salary range given. I thought that was required under NYS law. https://www.ubjobs.buffalo.edu/postings/49389

I don't follow the logic. Also, did you forget that he wrestled at LCC? He used eligibility there and he didn't have to do that to get into Iowa. I understand the perspective some people have where if an individual never wrestled for the other school it's not considered a "transfer." What rule would you be applying here? If your application gets rejected from the school you want to attend, you can wrestle 1 season at a different school and it isn't a "transfer?"

Jarod King, Mike Pucillo, Brock Lesnar, Mark Coleman

TJ Williams

I see this as kind of a combination of my 2) and 3) though my list wasn't mean to be exhaustive. So for point two I think that is a big component of the Brands's success. I don't know that they do it better than Sanderson/PSU and I would question whether it's a practical route to a championship to start with recruiting that is 2 notches below PSU and hope to get more out of them than Sanderson can get out of his guys. In 2021, Iowa's only championship since 2010, they kind of used all three components combining some really good recruits combined with some transfers. Lee, DeSanto, Eierman, Murin, Young, Marinelli, Kemmerer, Assad, Warner, Cassioppi. The only guys in the lineup that were not top 25 recruits were Eierman (37) who transferred in already a 3x AA, Murin (44), and Assad (29). Jordan Burroughs was barely a top 100 recruit coming out of high school and he is perhaps the greatest American wrestler of all time. Certainly very good wrestlers get missed or develop later, but there is a correlation. Here is a list of every wrestler Tom Brands has coached to a national title Mark Perry (2, OK/NJ), Brent Metcalf (2, Mi), Jay Borschel (IA), Matt McDonough (2, IA), Derek St. John (IA), Tony Ramos (IL), Cory Clark (IA), Spencer Lee (3, PA). All of them were top 25 recruits out of high school. If we expand it to Hawkeyes Tom Brands has coached to the an NCAA final the list would look like this Mark Perry (OK/NJ), Joey Slaton (IA), Brent Metcalf (Mi), Dan Dennis (IL), Montell Marion (IA), Jay Borschel (IA), Matt McDonough (IA), Derek St. John (IA), Tony Ramos (IL), Cory Clark (IA), Thomas Gilman (IA/NE), Brandon Sorenson (IA), Spencer Lee (PA), Jaydin Eierman (MO), Michael Kemmerer (PA), Jacob Warner (IL), Real Woods (IL), Drake Ayala (IA). Dennis and Marion are the only guys who were not top 100 recruits out of high school. Brands certainly got a lot out of them, but he did not recognize them as having chips on their shoulder or being better than their ranking in the recruiting process. They were recruited by his predecessor, Zalesky. The only others that were not top 25 recruits out of high school were Sorenson (27) and Eierman (37). Sorenson was barely outside the top 25 and whist Eierman was a bit farther down he transferred to Iowa after placing 3rd NCAAs. Indeed. Everyone does moneyball as they are all working with limited resources to make the best team possible and all are still limited to 9.9 scholarships. Top three was in reference to recruiting and not results at NCAAs. On average Iowa has been second best at NCAAs during Brands's tenure. I never said Brands should be fired and I think Zalesky deserves more credit than he receives. If Iowa/Brands fails to win a title next season that will give Iowa 1 title in the past 15 years. That is the same success rate Tommy Chesbro had at OSU when he was let go and he was coming off consecutive 2nd place finishes to go along with Big 8 titles and undefeated dual seasons. The expectations are high at Iowa and OSU.

I was responding to these statements about Tom Brands's recruiting and how he appeals to recruits. His recruiting had not been top notch the past 10 or so years. The numbers show this. You are correct that his teams have outperformed some rivals that out recruit him. There are a few possible reasons for this The Brandses have found inefficiencies in the recruiting market and know which recruits will perform best better than the rankers do. This is sort of a Moneyball approach. They find the wrestlers that the rankers under value and target them. Their true rank is actually higher than represented in the Big Board The Brandses are able to get more out of a given wrestler than their rivals. Essentially they get more out of less They are able to coach guys that are outside the top 25 recruits into top 10 guys and AAs better than their rivals are able to coach top 25 guys into AAs. The Brandses are able to get guys to transfer to Iowa that they can coach to AA finishes to supplement their recruiting thus overcoming the disadvantage. Probably all apply in some cases, but they all represent and inefficiency except 1. If the Brandses can get more out of top 50 guys than their peers than Iowa would do even better if they started with more top 25 guys. And for #3 if they were able to recruit those transfers out of high school they would get more out of them. The significant transfers to Iowa in recent years includes Caliendo, DeSanto, Eierman, Franek, Lugo, Teske, and Woods who all had success at their previous institutions. This means Iowa missed out on those productive years when they were wrestling elsewhere and possibly had to pay a premium either in scholarship or NIL $ to recruit them. The value of an AA transfer is higher than a top 25 recruit out of high school. Reason number 1 is smart management, but it is a small market strategy. Iowa is one of the most storied programs with the largest resources in NCAA wrestling if they are forced to go after second tier recruits because PSU, OSU, and Ohio State get their pick of the best guys that's kind of an issue. When asked "How do you make gains in the Big Ten and keep pushing up the ladder?" Illinois assistant coach Jeremey Hunter said "It comes down to recruiting. You gotta have the best guys." So whilst recruiting is not the final measure of success it is a big part of it and one where Iowa has fallen a bit behind the top three. That puts them at a disadvantage out of the gate. I think the fact that the state of Iowa had their best graduating class of past 25 years in 2005 and Zalesky only managed to recruit only one of them (Morningstar) to Iowa whist Brands got three to go to Virginia Tech (Borschel, Slaton, and LeClere) and Sanderson got one (Mueller) to go to ISU as part the #1 recruiting class (Varner, Gallick, Sanderson, Fanthorpe, and Zabriskie) was a big part of why he was let go. He was being out recruiting by in state rival ISU and his former assistant Brands.

Easy to say but hard to execute. Cody himself was unable to duplicate it. I think his 5th place finish at American was better than he managed at OU.

LaRussa unretired to come back and coach the White Sox in 2021 and 2022. He had some success and got the team yo the playoffs one year. There were constant questions from his appointment as to whether or not he'd be able to relate and get through to the teams which had one of the youngest rosters in the league.

The Brandses have not recruited as well the past 12 years as they did at the beginning of their tenure in Iowa city. Below is a table I made with the number of top 25 recruits for a selection of top teams from 2005-2024. A top 25 recruit should roughly equate to a top 10 wrestler assuming the rankers are able to accurately determine which wrestlers will be have the best college careers. From 2005-2012 Iowa had the second most top 25 recruits (16) behind only OSU (19). All these years were Brands years except 2005. He was at Virginia Tech that season where he was able to recruit 3 top 25 wrestlers who all ultimately ended up at Iowa, so including that they would be tied with OSU. Best recruiting in D1 up until 2013. Since 2012 Iowa has not been as successful in recruiting top 25 wrestlers. They have not had more than 2 in a season with 2023 being the exception. That year was is kind of an exception which may be partially explained by the unusually good recruiting class the state of Iowa produced in 2023. In 2023 there were 3 Iowa natives in the top 25 recruits and all committed to Iowa. Only three times in the 2005-2024 time period has the state of Iowa produced at least 3 top 25 recruits; 2023 (3), 2012 (3), and 2005 (4). Each of these seasons Iowa/Brands has had an excellent recruiting class. In the 2013-2024 time period Iowa's ability to recruit top 25 wrestlers has diminished with PSU, OSU, and Ohio State routinely out recruiting them. Their peers are now teams like Minnesota, Cornell, Michigan, Nebraska, VT, and NC State.

Maybe not another sport, but in this sport it has happened before - Tommy Chesbro at OSU. He was there for 15 years had won a single national title early in his tenure and ppl produced a top 5 team every year except 1 where they finished 6th. That year they still had an individual national champ. He was relieved of his position in 1984. In 1983 OSU won a big 8 title, was runner up to Iowa at NCAAs (102 team points), produced 2 national champs and 6AAs, and had an undefeated dual season 22-0 including a 27-23 win over Iowa. In 1984 they were just as good. Runner up at NCAAs (98 team points) to Iowa with 2 national champs and 7 AAs. They won the Big 8 and had another undefeated dual season (19-0) and beat Iowa 24-6 in a dual. These outstanding teams were not enough to keep Chesbro out of the hot seat. There had been rumors since Roderick became AD that he was going to be replaced as OSU had not won a title since 1971. Here is an article from April 1983 discussing it. This was after an undefeated season, Big 8 title, runner up finish with 6AAs and 2 NCs. He was ultimately relieved of his position the following season. Roderick tried to get Gable to take the position. https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/1984/03/23/paper-says-osu-casting-eye-at-gable/62809463007/ Gable talks about being offered the job in one of the episodes on the Smiths in the wrestling changed my life podcast. He said he took it to his family and they didn't want to leave Iowa City. Ultimately Joe Seay was hired. https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/1984/03/29/chesbro-is-out-osu-hires-seay-to-win-ncaas/62808818007/ I doubt Brands gets the kind of scrutiny from his boss that Roderick was giving Tommy Chesbro, but if he does it is probably because of his athletes getting shot and gambling instead of finishing 2nd at NCAAs.

That's a tough one and why there likely won't be a change. The existence of an obvious replacement candidate was probably the main reason Zaelsky got the axe back in 2006. On the other hand you never know who will apply when the position opens up. The Iowa job is definitely a top 3 position in the sport. I would think any current head coach with ambitions of winning a national title would consider applying. Any wrestler nearing retirement with head coaching aspirations would consider it. I doubt PSU had a successor lined up when they sacked Sunderland and that worked out fine. Sean Bormet, Mike Grey, Kevin Dresser, Larry Jones, Tony Robie, Tom Ryan, Mark Manning, Brian Smith, Pat Popolizio, Brandon Eggum, Rob Koll, Doug Schwab, Ryan Morningstar, Casey Cunningham, Tony Ramos, Brent Metcalf, Bill Zadick, Dan Dennis, Jake Varner, Logan Stieber, Tervel Dlahnev, Nick Gwiazdowski, Kyle Dake, David Taylor, Jordan Burroughs - none of those guys are refusing a phone call to discuss the Iowa job. OSU gave Tommy Chesbro the axe in 1984. OSU was coming off a pair of NCAA runner up performances and had consecutive undefeated dual teams and conference titles. They had beaten Iowa in the dual two years in a row only to finish behind them at NCAAs and winning a team title was the standard. Chesbro had not done that since 1971. His team finishes at NCAAs were 4,1,3,5,3,3,3,2,3,6,2,4,4,4,2, and 2 and he produced 3,3,0,0,0,1,1,2,1,1,2,1,0,2, and 2 (19 total) individual national champions in those years. His teams had won the Big 8 title 8 times and been in the top 5 at NCAAs every year except 1. Gable had won 7 consecutive NCAA titles in 8 seasons at Iowa and you might not think he would be interested, but he still had a conversation with OSU about the position and they offered it to him. I think if there is an opening at Iowa, OSU, or PSU all the big names take that call. Whoever Iowa wants will have a bag of money thrown at them to take the position.

Murin was #44 on the big board in his class. That's a pretty good recruit, but maybe not blue chip. Brandon Dallavia was 44 in the class of 2016 and he did not start at Stanford. Michael Blockhus was 44 in the class of 2018 and he was a 1xAA maybe better this season, but was injured going into NCAAs after having a great regular season beating Franek and Robb. Others around Murin in the class of 2017 include Dom Demas #43, Kordell Norfleet #46, and Hunter Bolen #50. Murin did improve some, but on the other hand he was kind of the same guy his entire time at Iowa. He was R12 as a redshirt freshman, his sophomore year he qualified for NCAAs and there was no tournament due to covid, he was R12 in 2021, he as R12 in 2022, he placed 6th last year. He just put it together at the right time last year.

I don't think this is entirely accurate. I think the rule is that his scholarship counts against the number football scholarships the school can offer, but the scholarship/$$ can come from the other team. So if an individual get a wrestling scholarship, signs, and enrolls, then decides he wants to try and walk onto the football team he can do that. However, if the football team decides they want to keep this individual on the roster they can only award 84 scholarships instead of 85. It counts against the number of football scholarships the school can offer even though it is a wrestling scholarship coming from the wrestling teams budget and even if it is only a partial scholarship. Though the NCAA does not care if it is wrestling scholarship or not for counting purposes (counts against football's 85 and not wrestling's 9.9) it may matter to the student athlete. If he is on a wrestling scholarship he could quit playing football without it affecting his aid. If he is on a football scholarship then he could quit wrestling without it affecting his aid. In practice if he quits one it might be because he is more successful at the other and the team he picks might find the money to pay for his education even if they weren't paying before.

Yeah definitely some teams with 4 transfers, but not 1 year transfers. Going down the standings at NCAAs this hypothetical team with 5 1 years transfers that is not in the top 3 has to be pretty far outside the top 3. Here's the top 10. Might be missing a transfer or two, but I am pretty sure no team has 4 other then Michigan. PSU - McHenry (Not a starter/2 years), Nagao (3 years), Mesenbrink (4 years), Truax (1 year), and Kerkvliet (5 years) Cornell - None Michigan - DeAugustino (1 year), Cannon (1 year/injured), Gomez (1/2 year), Griffith (1 year), and Davison (1 year). ISU - Echemendia (2? years), Chittum? (4 years) , Feldkamp (1 year). Iowa - Cruz (Not a starter 4 year), Teske (2 years), Woods (2 years), Voinovich (Not a starter/3 year), Franek (1 year), Caliendo (3 year), Swafford (Not a starter/2-3 years) ASU - Parco (3 years), McLane (2 years), Negron (2-3 years) Virginia Tech - None Ohio State - None Nebraska - Smith (2 years) OSU - Spratley (4 years), Jamison (4 years), Young (4 years), Alvarez (Not a starter/1 year), Olejnik (1 Year), Sanchez (Not a starter/3-4years)

They only had 1-1 year rental. They're other transfers (Cruz, Teske, Woods, Voinovich, Caliendo, Swafford, and potentially the Ferraris) all had more than 1 year of eligibility. PSU was the most successful team with 4 transfer starters this year. This discussion is about 1 year rentals. I think Michigan is the only team with more than 2.

I guess they weren't all 1 year rentals, but PSU had 4 transfer starters this year. Nagao (3 year rental), Mesenbrink (4 year rental), Truax (1 year rental), and Kerkvliet (5 year rental) Michigan must be the team with the 4 1 year rentals and a team trophy; DeAugustino (1 year), Cannon (1 year/injured), Gomez (1/2 year), Griffith (1 year), and Davison ( 1 year). What team had 4 1-year rentals and didn't get a trophy?

He is at the top of the list of 5xers. If he does it I say the NCAA should give another year of eligibility to Pat Smith, Cael Sanderson, Kyle Dake, Logan Stieber, and Yianni Diakomihalis so they can come back and try and get a 5th.

Pat Smith and Yianni Diakomihalis also won as true freshmen. Out of Dake, Smith and Diakomihalis, Smith was the only one to not lose after their freshman season. So 3 of 7 did it and Smith is the only one with a real plausible argument that he "could have been an undefeated 4xer" with a redshirt. It is kind of crazy that OSU didn't redshirt Smith. OSU had Jeff McAllister at the weight. McAllister was the starter at the beginning of the season and after they pulled Smith's redshirt he transferred to Bakersfield between semesters. At NCAAs McAllister was the 5 seed and would go on to finish 7th. Conventional wisdom would say to redshirt Smith and wrestle McAllister since he was a top 4-8 guy. With the probation yet to come, wrestling as a true freshman is what allowed Pat Smith to finish his career at OSU as a 4xer.

Burroughs could have said that about 14 wrestlers in the final and Nickal would not have cared. He is incredibly biased towards PSU. He made a 60-0 prediction for the Iowa-PSU a couple years ago. The only unprofessional thing Burroughs did was to tweet back at him mid-broadcast. Get off your phone JB!

Brands is a good coach no doubt, but I always thought he benefited from exceptionally good timing at the start of his tenure in Iowa City. He took over a top 10 team coinciding with the state of Iowas best recruiting class in the past 25 years, and at a time when rival schools OSU and MN were resetting. Those schools has crazy good teams the 6 years before he got the Iowa job - 120+ team points at NCAAs every year, the 10AA squad, the 5 champ squad. Then during Iowas run under Brands they were rebuilding. The best team Iowa had to contend with during their championship run was 2009 Ohio State (92 team points). A lot of coaches could have been successful with those recruits against that field of teams. Contrast that with what Dresser took over at VT. A 1-16 team that had all of its recruits leave. Or what he took over at ISU a 1-12 team that was 57th at NCAAs. He got both teams to top 5 finishes at NCAAs ahead of Iowa. In 2016 VT was 4th at NCAAs ahead of Iowa (5th) and this year ISU was 4th at NCAAs ahead of Iowa (5th). He might not have beaten Iowa in a dual yet, but Brands also refused to schedule VT to this day so this really is only and ISU thing. In his second season he had them competitive with the Hawkeyes losing a 19-18 dual that required Stoll to take the mat on a knee that was not 100% because of an offseason gunshot injury. He is 0-6 against Iowa in duals, but I think he gets a win sometime soon which is great for the rivalry. Sanderson was 0-3 against Iowa in duals as ISU head coach. So if Dresser does it next season he will have done something even Sanderson could not.

So without Starocci and Kerkvliet. You might find out with regards to Starocci. Kerkvliet likely returns, but even without them they start the year with 4 top 2 wrestlers (Bartlett, Kasak/Van Ness, Haines, Mesenbrink), Davis and Nagao. A little more interesting but not that much more.

Could Cannon get an injury waiver for this season. I assume whatever graduate program he is taking at Michigan is at least 2 years.

You're right about the time since he cut Carr, but to be fair he was trying to score up until maybe 15 seconds. I don't think the announcers or anyone else thought he might not know the score until 15s. On the other hand if he had been fully aware he may have been attacking like Vito for 50s.

He is far behind Gable in AAs. He could surpass him but it would be in more years of coaching even if you limit Sanderson's sample size to just PSU years. As you pointed out 20 for 20 in Big Ten title will be a tall order and her certainly won't be able to do it in his first 20 years like Gable. Gable had 15 team titles in 20 years. Sanderson has 11 in 18 years. If you remove the COVID year it's 11 in 17. If you remove the ISU years it's 11 in 15. If you remove the ISU years and the COVID year it's 11 in 14. Can't get 15 in his first 20. He could get 15 in fewer than 20 years at PSU.

Cael has coached wrestlers to 40 individual NCAA titles. The most by a coach is 45 by Dan Gable. PSU could return 3 national champs (Haines, Starocci, and Kerkvliet), 2 runners up (Bartlett and Mesenbrink), 2 third place finishers (Kasak and Van Ness), and another guy who was the top seed at NCAAs this year (Davis). They could start the year with 4 top ranked wrestlers (Haines, Messenbrink, Starocci, Kerkvliet) and two number 2 ranked wrestlers (Bartlett and Kasak/Van Ness). Bartlett has beaten Mendez the presumptive number 1 at 141 to start the year and Van Ness has bested Henson the presumptive #1 at 149. They should have at least 6-7 title contenders and Lilledahl, Nagao, Barr, and a Mirasola could add to that next season. Could they actually be better next season? Does Sanderson catch Gable in individual national titles?