scourge165

For the same reason that the punishment is different from walking up to a man on the street and beating him(and violently raping his wife) and that man, after being hit every few years for DECADES deciding he's going to stop that man from continuing to punch him...and rape his wife. Can ya understand that "high-end logic?" Also, side note, is there "high end logic," and "low end logic?" Or is it just...logic? Shower thoughts.

My issue is...how the hell do we know what these athletes truly feel? We've seen Iranian Wrestlers executed. I don't have any clue what the repercussions would be for Sadulaev to turn down an "invitation," at Putins request to show up and be at that "rally." Where there's not really free speech, it's hard for me to judge the speech of the people too much. That's all.

Haines and Messenbrink...

He's like 5'10. I don't see this going particularly well. Wrestling Greco(which I'm NOT looking to get into a new argument over, it's a great style, but it doesn't translate nearly as well to Freestyle).

125-Davis 133-Lillendahl 141-Bartlett 149-Kasak 157-Haines 165-Messenbrink 174-Starocci 184-Parker(upsets Barr) 197-Mirasola HWT-Kerk I didn't actually change these until I realized how many PSU guys I had in there and then figured I'd just...go all in. 125-Lillendahl 133-Crookham(I think he ends up 1 win shy of being a 4X undefeated NC) 141-Bartlett -I think he comes back and it's a coin flip between he and Mendez, but he had that TD. If he doesn't come back, Mendez and Kasak is a '41 149-Kasak-I think it'd be better if he grows into '49 with a year to get ready. If Kasak goes to '41, then Van Ness is at '49 and I like Henson there. 157-Haines-Obvious(unless they flip weights and I don't know if they do that). 165-Messenbrink -I think Hamiti can beat Messenbrink...I just don't think he can beat the thicker guys who slow down the pace. 174-Starocci -I just believe he comes back to go '74 again, if not, O'Toole 184-Sinclair -I was going to pick Arnold, but Sinclair is just SOOO slick and talented. I've said I think he's O'Toole/Messenbrink type talented and I've predicted Haines and Messenbrink to be in the finals a year before either Wrestled, so...this is my pick this year. 197-Parker -I think he'll move up. He's a big '84 and he'll likely try and Wrestle 86KG, so...just a guess, but my pick. HWT-Trumble -I've rolled with him in '21...and '22. Not I think he'll be a ~240LB HWT and he's just so tough and athletic. Kerk also seems like he's the least likely to come back...ironically with CS, but he looks like he has a perpetual "HEW" attitude. Bastida could also get in there, but I like Trumble. I'm assuming the PSU 3 come back and I don't know if Trumble cuts, but I hope he doesn't. I could see him winning a WC/OLY in the future. I think he's that good. I could see, Sealy, Barr, Mirasol, Ryder, Davis, and Kerkviet(obviously) all contending and placing in the top half...if they Wrestle. I think Davis ends up at '33, Mirasola takes '97. I'll say Facundo takes 17 Penn State is so stupid with their depth.

Eh, it's just not a priority. They'd owe him 5 years, it's not a revenue sport...they have bigger priorities. If he was gonna be fired, I'd have guessed it would have happened, but maybe I'm wrong. Even if you had an elite coach, that's not going to magically solve all the issues. You walk into PSU's facilities, tOSU, Iowa...and then Wisconsin... Bono has done a really good job of getting commitments from kids. He's identified talent early...Estrada from Cali comes to mind. He was not a highly-rated recruit. He wins another title and a few months later, he flips. I'd imagine taking a visit to Iowa, and seeing the facilities he'll get to use for several years...that probably played a pretty significant role. There is a former Wrestler as the AD. He is getting new facilities built for the Football team, a new Gym. Those things should benefit the Wrestling team. MAYBE the next step is a new athletic facility that is for several sports. The Volleyball teams or...whoever, but something that at least includes a nice new room. Not holding my breath. ---And to the person who asked if people from Wisconsin root for kids who leave the state, I think so, but it's not as universal as it seems to be with NJ. There SEEM to be hard feelings they're not going to Wisconsin...but I think most want to see guys have success.

LOL...exactly. If you put Cael up there, I'd pick Cael. Seemed obvious it was a "if you could get any of these coaches, which would you pick," type scenario. Everyone knows Cunningham's role at PSU...and I wouldn't be shocked if Cael only has a couple more years left and Casey takes it over...and doesn't miss a step.

I remember that match. That was...an incredible match between two '89 pounders who both moved so incredibly well. I know Brandvold did some stuff at AWA while he was at Wisconsin...pretty sure he even did some technique videos with Max. Doubt they're doing that if there is bad blood...but not clue. Seems like they'd have some mutual respect. Wisconsin isn't going to fire Bono most likely anyway, so it's all moot, but Brandvold and then maybe trying to get Howe back on staff? That'd be a nice start. Whoever threw out Jeff Jaeggers, that'd be a helluva hire as well. Be nice to find someone who can peak in March!

Yeah...but you're NOT going to stop me right there...unless you have REALLY poor reading comprehension. 1-If you don't like the pick, take it up with the OP who came up with the list of coaches. Several aren't going to happen. IT'S A HYPOTHETICAL. 2-I not only prefaced it by saying Cael has sacrificed money for Cunningham and he runs half the program, but I also ended by saying a REALISTIC option would be Brandvold. So tell me where TF I said I "think he's leaving that for Wisconsin?" It'd be like saying "who should the Badgers try and recruit." Should you NOT name the most obvious and the #1 recruit? As for the "his kid is coming to PSU," so what? You been paying attention to the landscape of College sports? He could easily follow his Dad and go to Wisconsin. As it stands, his kid may very well not start at PSU(not because of a LACK of talent on his behalf, but the recruits/talent they already have in there). Finally, if I was actually going to make this argument, I'd probably go back to when a B1G team poached a young HC from the B12. A coach who'd won 4 Titles and was recognized as the greatest College Wrestler ever...who had just gotten the HCing job after pushing out a HOF coach(not to mention his own coach) and left his alma mater for another school(I hope you get where I'm going with this). Wasn't real likely that Cael was going to leave Iowa State for PSU. And yet...look at that! Even with Cael's little brother Wrestling at ISU, he still ended up leaving. That's if I was going to make an argument rather than picking the most obvious name from the list of candidates presented in a poll. But SOO glad to you "stopped me there."

Yeah...that looked cool as shit. I don't really see how you can talk shit about that facility.

I don't know either and haven't heard. But, as others mentioned, Minnesota has recruited AWA kids pretty well. So...it's apparently not a bad one.

He was basically the HC in waiting...they started to have a little more success, Davis pushed the TL, Pritzlaff took an interview that wasn't approved IIRC, maybe he did it again, then he was basically let go. Don't see that being a good fit. Nah, I think they've build a good enough core of coaches...and really as, if not more importantly, the infrastructure that you could take any one coach out and you'd still have enough good coaches to keep it rolling. The AD has already(apparently) said it wouldn't be Ben as he's too controversial/outspoken. So you'd likely get Max. I'm making a LOOSE comparison here so please don't jump down my throat, but from what I've heard, there are SOME similarities between he and Sanderson in their mannerisms as coaches. How they keep guys relaxed, he's organized, he's less controversial(or not really controversial at all). I don't want people twisting that into saying I'm suggesting he'd be Cael, I just feel like you'd get a more laid back approach and guys Wrestling free...IF you were to pick one of the three main coaches at AWA(Messenbrink, Ben and Max). One last thought in these...TLTR posts, but I'd guess you're going to see former AWA guys who've had a LOT of success coming back and coaching at AWA as well. Maybe not everyone, but...a couple guys. So I don't think they'd see a drop off

Oh...and as for the coach, it's obvious to me. The same guy MOST programs would hire right now if they could. You take Cunningham. Let the Askrens do their thing. You take a piece of PSU away...the guy a lot of people say is a co-head coach. And I know Sanderson has sacrificed a little salary to keep him there as he's such an enormous part of that program. IF you wanted to make a splash, you have someone who is willing to throw millions at the program. You try and pry him away. I'd assume he'd have the Askren's respect...there'd be a mutual respect there. Imagine the guys who'd come with him...which is not to say you'd have an exodus from PSU, but you'd get some guys he's close to as coaches...and then...PSU is going to have a team of backups that would probably win a team title(not really, but they have a little depth). I think the answer to this question for literally ANY program should be Cunningham. And at Wisconsin with the Askren's involved in AWA and almost disqualifying for that reason, it's an easy one. More realistic would be Trevor Brandvold.

Yeah...BUT, there has been a substantial change in the prep talent in Wisconsin. The Askren's provided the infrastructure for these guys to all come and work out. That was a big problem in Wisconsin. The talent was spread out and there were few clubs. AND then on top of that, it's not like they just provided the buildings, each place has a coach who wrestled and had success in College save for...I guess where Messenbrink is, and he was one of the best coaches in the state...and an even better coach when talking about coaching the elite Wrestlers. The state didn't have much of that. That combo of just locations and then coaches who Wrestled at a high level have really changed the game in Wisconsin. So in theory, they should be able to do more than they have historically. It's been beaten to death already, but just going through and about what their lineup would look like, you could have just dominance on the upper half of the lineup with for arguments sake, '57-Messenbrink, '65 O'Toole, '74-Mocco, '84-Parker, '97-Buchhannan. Just that stretch right there would be pretty damn impressive. You could also have Barnett at '25, Clark at '33, keep Zargo at '49. That's a top 3 team right there. And I know Wisconsin's had some issues where their admissions is a pain in the ass, even with Wrestlers of O'Toole's caliber who they hadn't been able to get into UW in the past, but...I believe all these guys are really good students as well. I used O'Toole as an example because...I didn't want to be a dick and use a real example of someone who couldn't get in there. There's also as much talent still coming as there is already in College. Sinclair is absolutely on O'Toole/Messenbrink's level at this point, Hopke, the Mirasola's, Charlie Millard is an extremely impressive kid. There's a '74 Jake Stoefell who is impressive.

No. It's a different team dominating. Not Iowa. Night and Day different...

Everything is "the end of College Wrestling." Hasn't D3 been one by Augsburg or Wartburg for 30+ years in a row? There are kids at all different schools still battling their asses off. Iowa was as dominant as Penn State. They had those caps, they'd get a guy like Mcllravy through a couple years, he'd get hired to do the camps, get paid enough to cover tuition, he'd no longer be on scholarship and they'd bring in the next wave. There's always something that's going to be "the end of___" and people adapt. It's a sport dominated by a few teams. Always has been. Right now it's PSU.

Probably. I was just going through the next wave of big names who could in theory attract talent as a result of their own success like Smith, Gable and now Cael have done. I'm just kinda thinking out loud here. If Snyder is next up...then well, I still don't think JB is coming to Wisconsin, but I'd sure as hell try to get him there.

They said that for last year. I don't think they explicitly stated that this year, but...clearly that was the goal. And Sinclair did Wrestle Mirasola this year anyway. So...not a whole lot to prove(though it'd have been interesting). I'd like to see Sinclair RS...just because I'm always rooting for the next 4X Champ, the next guy with a shot at going undefeated. That's really premature, but he's that type of talent if he's at '74 with a year of weight training...IMO. He's that good.

No, I'm not positive...maybe they're not all making 300K from just AWA. I'm not in the know. I heard a rumor they offered 1 million to buy Crass Wrestling to put their names on it and have Crass keep running it. I trust the people I heard it from, but you know how that game of telephone goes. Of course, they'd seem to have quite a bit of free time(relative to being a B1G HC, recruiting and rebuilding a program with shit facilities) and they don't have to deal with compliance issues or recruiting or any of that. Messenbrink is watching his own kid...and that's before looking at it from UW's perspective. They've been pretty clear about Ben. Max would probably be a great HC...especially as it'd open up Wisconsin, but he's never been a College coach. I'd think UW would want that as a requirement. Messenbrink, never been a College coach and he's watching his kid. Would you rather watch your kid go win 3 NCAA Titles and travel around the Country, or would you rather jump in at Wisconsin and have a far more strict schedule and miss a lot of his matches?

I think he'd run into NCAA compliance issues. He'd still have an ownership stake in a club that has relationships with kids long before you can contact them...but I'm not sure exactly why.

I think if Sinclair takes a RS and then Wrestles '74...Mizzou might not see much of a drop off after O'Toole. I know that's a big statement, but he's on that level IMO. Why he wrestled 215...I'm really not sure(other than Mirasola was at '95 and he could do whatever he wanted), but he was ~185 at the State Tournament(or so I heard 3rd hand) and he's not exactly lean, so I think he'd easily certify at '74. Plus it just makes more sense looking at that lineup.

Oh...yeah, that's a TERRIBLE idea.

Nah, I agree. I hate it. It helps guys who are good hand fighters, but just block and push(which used to be a form of stalling). And the person who said the Fix match would be over sooner, I don't know, I think he's the exact type of Wrestler that benefits from it. They are two different styles. Call stalling more. Make it a point of emphasis, whatever. I don't want to see the pushout in College or any Folkstyle.

It's not gonna be Ben, Max, Messenbrink. 1-There are too many compliance issues. Max would be great...you get Ben, but he's not the face so when he says something they don't like, not their problem...BUT even without the compliance issues; 2-They're all owners in AWA and they're doing pretty well financially. Would you take a pay cut to be a full-time HC with all the stress when you're running a club and making probably at worst as much as you'd be offered? Max Askren would be great...but it won't happen. What also seems INCREDIBLY unlikely; Is this. Taylor, Dake, Snyder, Burroughs...Taylor seems to be loving life. Winning rings and farming things a mile away from Kyle Dake. Dake is also still Wrestling(though he for some reason feels more likely...but that's just because I think he's a little off...in a good way and may want that challenge). Snyder and JB...just feels like if they're going to become HCs, JB is the closest, but Manning is also the closest to retiring among the coaches of the upper tier programs and Snyder...IDK, just don't think he'd come. Messenbrink would be a HR if this was a sport where they jumped through hoops in order to make the job a fit. Again, Max would be another. Just getting rid of Bono and sticking with Reader would be fine. Trevor Brandvold would be a great hire. I'm skeptical about these big name coaches wanting the job, but who knows?

I get what you're saying. Carter Starocci accomplished more than Bo Nickal, but Bo had a more exciting style of Wrestling. I don't agree necessarily. Starocci was just as dominant and didn't need that big throw or whatever, but I know what you're saying. I've always argued that you can't just rank guys according to # of Titles. It's not that simple. I don't think there's much of a gap between Nolf, Zain, DT and Starocci... I don't think you put Stieber as one of the top 5(before last night) just because he had 4. I think you could argue a guy like Abas was better than Lee(if he'd finished it). There's a lot of opinion and nuance involved. He couldn't even beat Iowa State in a duel. Not...impressed! No, he's incredible and I think you're right. I think he's very possibly the 3rd best in the world at the moment. Just a shame he's 2nd in his own room. Bigger shame that we've got Mother#$%$#5 God#$%4 stupid #$%$ BREAKDANCING in the Olympics now, but 10 weights is juuuust too many. Lets have cuts cut out a kidney so they can drop to 163 or they can just move up to 190. I know the Russia-Ukraine thing is considered "important," to people, but the US, Russia, and Nato need to come together to rectify this! (I'm kidding...obviously, horrible War, but it's a joke).