Eagle26

IMO it should be an easy ranking to put Noto at #1. He’s technically undefeated on the year. And is the highest returning place winner other than Ramos who has taken several losses. Yes Ramos beat him in an exhibition match, but that should be weighed lower in ranking criteria

And Mark Branch won an NCAA title with a losing record (going into the tournament). For sure, early losses don’t always mean losses at NCAAs, but I think it would be statistically more likely for an undefeated wrestler to win than for a wrestler with losses to win it. So in a hypothetical, you would normally give the edge to the undefeated wrestler, unless there are extenuating circumstances (like there are here)

I guess I have to educate myself better before I post! Thanks for adding that context. Now I have to change it back to add Gray back in . Or better yet, maybe we say this group defies the odds and has 5 win as freshmen. Is that allowed @Wrestleknownothing?

It was cool reading through all those. Thanks for sharing. After reading that, I think I’m going to have to modify my list. As amazing as Gray Simons was, I didn’t realize he took two losses as a freshman. I’d still say he’s a “better wrestler” than most on the list but if we are looking at simply most likely to win a title as a freshman, I don’t think we should have him top 4. I’d go with Uetake, Hodge, McCready, and Rex Peery as the 4th… again probably a tough call there, but him and his sons going 9/9 is just crazy so I think he would’ve won as a freshman too.

I think they mean 174 is no man’s lands as in it’s a tweener weight for international. It does suck for guys like Starocci… Brooks does have a better freestyle resume, but it’s not really a fair comparison

Agree with others that Uetake, Simons, and Hodge are definitely the top three. After that, it’s probably a tough call and I honestly don’t know enough about them to make the call. Any historians out there have insight on who should be the 4th guy?

And don’t forget about a slip too. Miss the headlock or arm spin in freestyle, it’s no points and you get to stand back up. Miss it in folk and your down 3 points plus stuck on bottom.

He knows what he’s doing. It’s all part of his game…He doesn’t actually believe it

I think he is teaching us how to signal “Threeeeeee” for a takedown now.

Yes, to clarify I’m a big fan of the 3 pt takedown, and I’m ok with reversals staying 2 points. I’m not concerned as much as about refs making tough calls either… I’m more concerned that it can be called correctly as reversal, but the action was such that a wrestler got to his feet, didn’t quite get separation, but then “takes down” his opponent from his feet, and then only gets 2 points. IMO the action of taking someone down from your feet is a distinction that makes the takedown more valuable than the reversal, but in this case the action is basically the same. I can live with it though… wrestlers will adjust and put an even bigger emphasis on getting away first (which consequently slows down action).

Yeah but in this situation, there’s not much difference in the action of the wrestlers.

I’m torn on this one. I agree takedowns are generally more “difficult” because reversals often happen when the top guy goes for something and gets out of position. I also like that it is more reflective of freestyle scoring. However, the one thing I have a hard time with is the situation where the bottom guy basically escapes and goes right for an attack. The difference between the ref calling it an escape and a takedown vs a reversal can be a bit subjective. Now that’s the difference of getting 4 points or getting 2 points… I don’t like that.

Yeah I meant it’s pretty clear that PSU is a place that a blue chip recruit can go to to reach their long term goals whether that be freestyle, mma, or just college. Those goals may be met through NLWC or other avenues, but it’s still a reason kids attend PSU. I think that’s a big element to their recruiting

Late to respond but I agree with all these although I do wish our emphasis was on duals more. I still believe the team comes before any individual, but I agree the best way to build the team (and help with recruiting) is to do right by each individual and help them reach their goals.

Was that Nevills or Beard that said that? Lol I get what you’re saying and was just making a joke… Penn State does seem to have the philosophy of helping individuals with their own goals (freestyle, mma, etc) which helps with recruiting tremendously. But the team does still come first. As others have mentioned, this strategy is a means to help the team, and as my joke implies, no one individual is above the team at Penn State either.

Why would Gabe’s success be the primary focus? The team comes before any one individual.

Personally, I would prefer we actually require a new hold to score multiple turns. Overall, I think the current freestyle rules are great, but that’s one rule that I would go back to go. I know they want more points and that’s cool, but I think it can rob us of some great wrestling…but that’s a different topic

Taylor brought this up at the all star classic and I thought it was a good idea. With 3 point takedowns and 2,3,4 point near fall, the major decision should probably be adjusted to 10 points. I always thought that 15 for a tech fall was a little high so I’m ok with keeping that where it is but I think the MD should go up to 10. A prime example was the 125 match which was about as close as a match as you can get, but the score ended up as a major decision (Ramos was up 3-2, Noto goes for a desperation move and gives up 7). If one move can get you 7 points now, a major needs to be more than 8 points. Plus 10 and 15 would be easy numbers for the casual fan. What do you all think?

Or, why not just put Crookham at #1 now since Fix will have a chance to take it from him in December? In all honesty, I’d be fine with 1. Fix, 2. Crookham, 3. Vito. You can argue it either way though… how does Fix go above Vito, or how does Crookham go above Fix (if you put Crookham #1)? I predict that Vito will win it all in March, but rankings and predictions are different. I’d be disappointed if they keep Vito ranked ahead of Crookham. Otherwise, it’s debatable how it should be right now.

I think Crookham should be 1st. If it was just a dual and he pulled an upset over the #1, I’d say it’s not enough to put him that high. But he won a tough tournament and also beat the #6. If rankings are to reflect current results (which they are), I’d say he’s #1

I can sympathize with this! I wrestled D1 and made it to the NCAA tournament 3 times… never AA’d though. I know how hard I had to work to even just get there, so I feel bad for all the guys falling short of their goals and then having to hear crap from us fans! I’m sure it’s much worse today with social media… it’s probably hard for the athletes to avoid

Good calls on Reece and Tervel. I think those guys are both proven enough to take that next step. I also think it’s totally worth taking a chance on an unproven superstar. Burroughs, Dake, Taylor, Snyder all have the potential to attract top notch recruits. I know, I know, great wrestler does not equal great coach. But these guys would just need to surround themselves with a support staff that complements any weaknesses. The most successful coaches I’ve seen in my lifetime are Cael, Gable, and John Smith. All three on the GOAT wrestler list. Coincidence? Maybe. But I think it’s worth taking a risk on one of our current GOATs

No, we can’t say for sure that all US wrestlers are squeaky clean. But I’m pretty confident there’s no state sponsored doping program. That’s a huge distinction.

I agree that was definitely hyperbole. However, JB is undefeated in Gold medal matches, and has done really well against Iranians. He’s proven he can neutralize the under hook, so I think he’s a pretty heavy favorite in that match up… you are right though, no way it’s 99%

I wouldn’t say he’s that much more suspect than other Russians. I think all Russian athletes in that time period, earned the suspicion. However, when you look like Geduev did, it also raises some questions. JB is ripped for sure, but Geduev looked unworldly. Plus @Interviewed_at_Weehawken hit the nail on the head that he’s still on USA fans radar because of how it affected Burroughs. He’s not going to let that go because it really affected his legacy. Some other (alleged) cheaters may be forgotten, but not ones that have monumental impacts like that.