Eagle26

The guy that beat Hahn in Vegas DNP at D1 NCAAs that year. Just because he had better wins during the season doesn’t mean he would’ve come out on top at NCAAs. We’ve seen so many crazy things happen at NCAAs…many of which ruin peoples chances at the hodge. I just don’t think it’s fair to give it to someone who didn’t go to the biggest tournament… that’s my humble opinion. I can understand the case for Wilson… he just wouldn’t have gotten my vote. He did get the votes that counted though so I’m not going to belabor the point

You are right I did post without knowing all the circumstances because I figured it would take some incredible, borderline impossible circumstances to justify it. But I will admit I probably shouldn’t have done that. Anyway, I did some research and I think it supports my claim. Here is WIN’s article for reference https://www.win-magazine.com/win-awards/hodge-trophy/emmett-willson-2004-hodge-trophy-winner/ Wilson had some very impressive wins no doubt, admittedly, much better than I expected. However, we don’t know for sure if he would’ve won D1 nationals. If Scott Moore had not gone to D1 nationals that year, he would’ve won the award. Furthermore, the article also points out 7 different wins over ranked D1 wrestlers. That’s impressive for sure! However, every single one was a regular decision. Then they say the reason he got it over Matt Gentry or Greg Jones (the only undefeated D1 champs) was because he had more pins. That doesn’t seem right to me knowing he didn’t have any bonus on the top D1 guys and then rewarding him for getting more pins. It’s just too tough to compare that to the grind of a D1 schedule when we say one loss eliminates you from the award.

Great accomplishment, but it’s not the “best of the best” for folkstyle wrestling… that would be D1 nationals. I would fully support allowing D2, D3, NAIA, Etc. Back in the D1 tournament. I’m not trying to bash those programs. We need them. I’m just saying in my mind it’s hard to justify giving someone the hodge without them going through a D1 schedule and winning D1 nationals (more on that below).

Pat Pop or Casey Cunningham would be excellent candidates IF they are interested. Another big if would be if JS could keep going until after 2024 and they could potentially bring in one of our big name guys like Burroughs, Dake, or Taylor.

Didn’t really follow back then, but I don’t think anyone who isn’t D1 should be eligible for the award. I know that probably sounds harsh, but this award is about being the best of the best. If you are choosing to not compete against the best, you should be ok with not winning the most prestigious award.

My thoughts exactly… I generally never support splitting a major award like the hodge. However, if they were ever going to do it, it should’ve been Nickal and Nolf’s senior year. Teammates with almost identical stats… that’s the one year I think it should’ve been split.

Looked borderline to me. One of those where looking at it objectively, you can see it either way. But if it’s your team, you would complain either way

Interesting that looking at the individual rankings, there wasn’t a single upset in the individual matches, but the dual overall was a big upset

Good point. I don’t think we need a 6 week break for final X (we used to do it the next day). I don’t want to go back to that but I think we could do a two week break. So we could do WTT Olympic weights mid May, two weeks later Final X Olympic weights, two weeks after that WTT non-Olympic weights, and two after that Final X non-Olympic weights. You would finish in the same six week time period. I’m sure there’s other issues we haven’t thought of but it could probably be done if we wanted to.

I like the idea… where does US open fit in though? I wouldn’t think we need them done that early so I’d be ok pushing things back a bit if we need to

Olympic weights WTT should be a week or more before the other weights. Then allow the losers from Olympic weights to challenge at the other weights. That would give us our best team and we’d get to see some interesting matchups. I like Zahid at 92 but don’t think he’s going to give up on his Olympic dream at 86.

Taking a page out of Cinnabon’s book?

I thought you were including college in this… I meant if someone went undefeated with 4 ncaa titles a la Cael Sanderson, they would be pretty well off.

Well, Steve Fraser has made his living through the sport and many of us remember his name almost 40 years later. An Olympic gold medal means a lot in this country even in obscure sports that never get any publicity for the rest of the four years (Greco is one of many such sports). I do agree that it’s a bit of an exaggeration to say it’s worth more than going undefeated through all of amateur wrestling though. I’m sure if someone did that, they would be pretty well off too.

I think Dean wins this first one, but I’m sticking to the prediction I made on the old forum… Beard pins Dean in the NCAA finals a la Bubba Jenkins vs DT

I’m sure anyone would rather be an Olympic gold medalists as that is the height of the sport. Now, Olympic bronze or silver vs 4x NCAA champ could be a debate… I’m not sure where I’d fall on that one. FWIW, I don’t think Spencer is putting his 4 NCAA titles above his dream of Olympic gold. I think he believes he can do both and that competing in a limited folkstyle schedule won’t hurt him. The plan could work, but unfortunately he keeps running into more injuries so who knows. Also, I think his desire to return to the collegiate mat is more for his team than it is for his personal glory.

Well, there were multiple people saying that the hype around that bracket was overblown. But yeah, it is not what the OP is talking about so we should stay on topic. And it appears to be a really good topic… I’m seeing lots of stuff thrown out here, but it seems only one other example of 3 PRIOR national champs in one bracket was the one mentioned from 1982. I would’ve thought it happened more often than that but I can’t think of any off the top of my head. So it’s a pretty historic weight class this year.

Re the 2008 149 weight class… I understand that it doesn’t really make sense to count future accomplishments. However, it can be a useful tool to see the talent that was there. Only one person can win per year so even if there was national champ caliber talent, they may not have had the previous accomplishments to show it. Examples would be Bubba Jenkins wrestled up at 157 the previous year and DNP but it was easy to see his talent that year. Same with Caldwell, he DNP at 141 the previous year losing a crazy match to Lang and then pinnned by Jaggers in the consis. Plus we all know JB’s rate of improvement was incredible and was clearly National champ caliber in 2008 despite what he did in 2007. If you want to say that Caldwell, Jenkins, and Burroughs had no previous accomplishments so they don’t add to the depth of that weight, that’s a little crazy. Re current 165, that’s pretty awesome we have three previous NCAA champs in the same weight. Is that really the first time it’s happened since 1982?! If so, that’s really impressive

Geno Petriashvili

This forum is better already

Well, I really thought about just riding off into the sunset, but I checked this out and it felt like home! Even though I don’t contribute as much as others, I read a lot and I feel like I know you guys so I couldn’t just walk away lol.