ThreePointTakedown

Your argument comes down to, "Old man yells at cloud!"

What are they saying the money will be used for?

Where do you come up with your stuff? Any scholarship behind your claims?

Any literature that advocates for your position?

How is it its so difficult to think of these people as people and not a blight to what you have? Its only a little bit of luck that you are not one of them. If every billionaire was assessed and all but $1B of their(each family member was allowed to keep $1B too) wealth was taken and used to shore up our defenses, food production, education, health care, getting money out of politics, and housing issues. Also to help fund those causes around the world that were needed to better human flourishing. What would be draw backs of that system? Everyone is still allowed to grow enormous wealth. But like the corporate tax system use to be, they would need to reinvest that money into, something like, R&D to write it off so as to not pay it to the IRS. Would that money find its way into better purposes than accumulating more of itself for the sake of having it?

Yes. People should pay their taxes. Great start. I'm on board. Rich people can afford to pay accountants and lawyers and lobbyists to fight on their behalf to keep more of their money. Do we think its for altruistic purposes or more of a selfish/greedy nature? I'd be interested in that conversation. But we all agree that money does not trickle down the way that grandpa Ron tried to convince us. Hire more IRS agents. Give them a bigger budget. Make elections at certain levels publicly funded so as to keep them shorter(I'll bet many honest people agree with that) and to keep these kinds of shenanigans from happening again. Agreed.

Do not find employment or purposefully chose a different field? Is your argument that a percentage of college grads don't go into their chosen field of study(and that is pretty much across the board), so therefore we shouldn't allow immigrants into the country? Not sure what problem you're trying to solve but not seeing the solution, if this is in fact, your opinion.

What's with the bully routine? What do you get out of it?

Not a great guy.

Not all of them.

what are your reasons to believe this is true?

I do not disagree about best and brightest. You're taking a bias tone when you insist on talking about it in terms of legal vs illegal. Why won't you just talk about an immigrant? I have a feeling I know why but I want to see your answer first. Please prove me wrong? ( I will not answer first btw so don't ask) I will not trust your judgement as to what 'we' 'want' with regards to immigrants. Considering your hesitation to see them as anything but legal or illegal.

So you act in the best interest of yourself on a shorter time line. Yes. And you will fight to protect it even if it is bad for the whole in the long run. We are short sighted people. That is why climate change is such a big issue. No one today will feel the effects of it so we feel no need to change for it.

Struggle to makes ends meet in the slightest. The answer is no. And if they do, shouldn't they just be able to augment their lifestyle to spend less and save more, like you're suggesting others could do? Not saying they shouldn't enjoy the fruits of their labor but at some point a teacher, ideally, does a lot more good than their paycheck reflects. Some wealthy people cannot say that versus how much they are worth. Not that we need to have morality police as to how people make money but we should be less comfortable with screwing people over to make a buck, like some of us are(not saying anyone on this site, but it happens and more then it should) All of those. Anyone that falls in either of those categories have more wealth then they could spend and would not hurt them at all to have a little less. Not sure anything but income tax applies. So go with that. Cap gains could be chipped away at too now that I think of it.

What does this even mean? Do you have any data on what that would or could do if implemented? https://siepr.stanford.edu/news/how-set-top-tax-rates-without-deterring-innovation

I mean immigrants. People emigrating from one place and immigrating to another place. Not talking about legality right now. Lets leave that out and tackle one thing at a time. I reject the premise of your question. Please rephrase?

How are we defining 'religious right'? The people that call themselves that? Great. Who are they? What are their numbers? What's their contribution to charity/volunteering? How do we measure how much good it does? What's the metric(s)? Just over all hours? I don't think that's a good means, maybe a good start, but not an end all number to arrive at. Or the religious part? The church then? Which church/denomination? How much do they take in? Do we even know? NO. WE. DO. NOT! Because they do not have to tell us. Mormon church is sitting on $100b+ (BILLION) in investments. How did they get it? Should a church be allowed to hoard its wealth like that? Why or why not? $100B could do a whole lot of good that could convince people that their religion isn't the obvious con-man-created-cult that it is! The honest answer is we don't know. Religious, one religion or another or no religion does more. We know that numbers(%) of religiously affiliated people are dropping. Its a lot safer to come out today as athiest, gay, trans, queer not having to fear being isolated or killed(often by religious people). So if you're right today, you might not be in 10 years. Then what? Once religions are not responsible for the most volunteering/charity can we take away their tax exempt status? So they play by the same rules as everyone else. There might be a line and we could probably be fine coming no where close to that line. But where we're at isn't it. And any company spokesperson saying that, is trying to keep their job. That should tell you a lot.

You're coming to the defense of someone you probably share opinions with. Will you just add something to the conversation or go away? Or is it just more whining. You don't refute any points just get mad that I'm making them. So I'm right and you are deflecting or I'm wrong and you can counter. Which is it? Or would you rather not get in the mud with someone like me? Word salad, try again. 100% of the conversations you don't engage in are 100% not engaged in by you.

These are stories that the rich and corporations tell to keep government(and people who don't have the time or the inclination to learn the tax code) from expecting they pay more taxes. Because corporations have no motivation other then profit. The exceptions to the rule are vastly outnumbered by companies that cut corners and put lives and the environment in danger to cut costs and maximize profits. The rich people that are produced through this model work to protect their wealth. Just like you're doing by trying to protect your small piece of the pie. Their(some at the very tippy top) slice of the pie is so outrageously huge that they wouldn't miss a few crumbs on the side. They know, however, that if they let one crumb go without a fight that someone might come for the crust(that they still wouldn't really miss) and heaven forbid their pie shrinks to a level below where their 'lifestyle' would have to change(LIKE YOU ASK OF EVERY POOR PERSON ON FOODSTAMPS). History of corporate tax rate,above 50% at one point. history of income tax above 90% at the same time. Isn't this when we were great again? Why don't we want to go back to that? I sure do! You scared of winning too much. I'm not. Wish we could win like that again. That should be the hat. Raise Income/Corporate Tax Again! That'll shut those people up. TPT'28!

You never asked. And I don't have to go into details of my life. That's none of your business. What you're thinking now, is that I'm lying. I can't change your mind. But ask yourself, why would I lie? What do I have to gain? You have been more than dishonest during these and other conversations to expect more. So if you wouldn't mind answering this so we can continue your game.

Oh do tell!? I'm interested. I appreciate you stepping in to maintain the civility of the conversation but go pound sand if you don't have anything to add.

Figure I'd just put these together to highlight your lack of question answering. You can't just say 'Every unlawful immigrant' and expect anyone to believe you. I know you believe that. That's fine. What is your evidence that this is the case? Do we have illegal immigrants? Yes. Where do they come from? Bet you only know one place(that's a trick to make you research and learn, if you get it wrong I'll know how interested you are in being informed)? I know you want to believe everything you say. I'm sure you have plenty invested in keeping your beliefs. Not being called out on an anonymous forum, for one. But what else is keeping you tied to these beliefs. Many of them are untrue or at best half true talking points from one party that is loosing power and influence and desperate to hold on to it. Their policies are getting more and more bigotted and theocratic to better reflect the shrinking members of the party. Their demographic is getting older and more conservative, mostly due to these tactics of stirring up fear in the 'other' be it color, creed, or geographic. They have you committed to being angry and fearful. Which makes it difficult to absorb info that might contradict those beliefs. Just like a religion. FYI, religion also tells their members to not ask questions or to only ask questions to a select few(who have a financial stake in the members continuing to believe the things they say). I wonder why that is? (cough cough, cult)

Did you get a response? You said you hadn't. So rather then asking questions to get some info you decided to shut down the conversation. Because we all know what you would've said if they said, "no" "Why not?" because that's how a toddler goes about making a point. Not to educate, inform, or make things better but to win and flex. Congrats. Did you change their mind? No. Are you still wrong? Yes. Did you avoid an opportunity to learn and grow by being a close minded bully? Oh Yeah! Just like you've done at every turn in these conversations? Yes. We do pay extra taxes. When we see someone struggling we help. I understand if you don't, would explain a lot. Be that with our time or our own resources. Giving a ride to the airport is that extra. So that is the answer to that question. We do. We all do. Does it all to the IRS? No. Does everyone get what they need? No. Is it possible to give everyone the most basics of what they need? Probably. Why is it so hard for you to believe that this is something we can and more importantly, SHOULD do?

Lets come up with a definition of rich what do you think? Family income 2x that of local average.

Well, first you don't explain the tax system. You tell a story that paints a picture of poor people being lazy and greedy and rich being entirely benevolent. Which isn't true. I didn't say I would explain the tax system. I'll admit, its pretty complex. I don't feel the need to explain things to a bigot who doesn't have the decency to be honest about things or if they don't know, which you don't, to just be quiet. Is the tax system fair? No. Will rich people(top 10%) feel a significant sting if their taxes are raised 10-15%, or even 25% on the highest tier of earnings? Not even a little. Prove me wrong! Do you know the tiers of income taxes? Cuz that's a thing. Will taxing capital gains higher, hurt anyone that can afford to make those investments? Nope. Do any of these situations effect the bottom 50% of people? Nope(or not to enough of extent to really make a difference) Will the investments made by those tax dollars help the bottom 50%? Very likely. Does one party want to help the bottom 50%? Yes. Does one party want to give tax cuts to the top 10% and corporations(that have had record profits in the last decade)? Yes. Since we're on the subject, does one party want to try to treat immigrants with dignity and respect as much as possible in the hopes of sharing the wealth and the idea of this country? Yes. Do some see that as weakness? Yes. Are those people wrong? Yes. Will immigrants likely vote for those that try to help and against those that see them with fear? Yes. Does that give the fearful group a reason to try to deny them entry for whatever reason? Yes. Does that make them bigots? Yes.