MidwestMan

Cardinal (SDS) over Stanfield (MIZ) 14-5, tied 4-4

Surtain over Jordan 14-6, 4-0 Miz

We had a garage band in the 60's and did "In a gadda da vida", and My Mirage, from the Butterfly. People would start dancing to the first part, just stand there or sit down for the drum solo/instrumental, then start dancing again for the ending. Yes it was long for sure, but it was the highlite of the night for our drummer. We also had a real talented keyboard player. Wrestling, Rock n roll and girls baby!

No doubt, "Lunatic Fringe" has special meaning to those wrestlers of the 80's. It was part of the warm up tape I cobbled together to get practice started. Also included AC/DC-Hells Bells, Queen-We are the Champions, Another one Bites the Dust, A little Rocky theme, Danger Zone, Van Halen-Jump, Nugent-Stranglehold, Hendrix-Vodoo Child. I had some real hombres during those years and practice was always entertaining, to say the least.

Main Title/Jaws, from the Jaws Soundtrack. You knew something ominous was going to happen everytime you heard that French horn followed by the steady increase of the beat and then crescendo. I'm showing my age, but I bet even the youngsters on this forum recognize the sound of this soundtrack and the destruction left in it's wake.

Gives new meaning to the phrase, and musical lyric, "love hurts!" So sad to hear this news. As a Mizzou and Kade Moore fan, wishing him a speedy recovery.

Illinois has some of the best HS wrestlers in the nation. Guess it comes down to Illinois coaching staff establishing connections with the power programs. Of course, thus is true everywhere. MU has their Askren connection. Could be regional coaching connections. Sometimes alumnus end up coaching D1 level and use their homegrown ties to harvest the talent. If Illinois can keep them in state, they could be a power house. Mizzou has certainly lost some top tier talent to outside recruiting also. Could be more of a problem now with NIL.

I really believe Illinois has some better days ahead, so your comment about next year may be right on target.

Not to mention the "rivalry" factor that is a draw and important to the fan base and alumni. For Mizzou, Oklahoma State, Iowa State, and Virginia Tech have been some "down to the wire" matches the past couple of years. Illinois could be a potential rivalry dual in the future, and I don't know why Mizzou doesn't dual Iowa since they are a border state. Could be tough with conference schedule commitments. I'm one of those people that would really like to see a national dual championship.

This is exactly what I tell youth wrestlers when I come in the club practices. "Wrestling is much more fun, when your getting your hand raised!" I also tell them that you can't be a great "come back story, unless you continue to come back. There is nothing more gratifying then seeing a mediocre kid hang in there, pay their mat dues, and transition to being great wrestler before they graduate. A bit off topic. My apologies.

You'd think I might just want to let this topic slowly slide down the topic board and go away. But, after just reading the Flo piece concerning Mizzou losing two duals in a row for the first time in 4 years, and reading Smith's comments, of which included: setting up and finishing takedowns, finishing matches. He commented that the coaches needed to do a better job preparing the team, and they weren't panicking, as conference and NCAAS are the goal. All coach speak. Just cover the face, and you'll hear the same verbiage being spoke at 99% of the programs. So, I watched the 2 videos that popped up on YouTube of Oklahoma State practicing day before dual in MU wrestling room, and Tigers practicing day before. You watch the videos and make your own decision about the culture and practice structure, etc... some might say that Smith's more laid back attitude works better and has Tigers prepared at the right time of the season. Others might say that Mizzou has been one of the teams that gets called out by underperforming at nats. Personally, I'm an old man that watched Dan Gable wrestle in the Big 8 championships at K State/Manhattan, Ks in the late 60's. As a coach, I always leaned a little toward tough kids. I'm not saying you can't be a model citizen, good academic kid and also stud/physical wrestler. I had several of those during my coaching career. But, over the years, my best wrestlers were the kids that could hit that "nasty physicality" and wanted to punish kids on the mat, then flip the switch off. I coached FB also, and refer to it as "linebacker mentality!" I think Moore and Whiting may have a little of this mentality. Surtain is a gamer, and "go for it" mentality. I scratch my head with some of these guys. Kids wrestling in late 60s, early 70's had Dan Gable's fable to follow. Wrapped head, hobbling on one good knee, winning gold. How many coaches told the story of Dan Gable runnjng in the middle of the night because he didn't want the Russians to out train him? Different times, and attitudes. Cale throws out the dodge balls at Penn State and builds a dynasty (tongue firmly in cheek). Maybe I'm just an old man living in the past!

Does anyone watching Mauller and Mocco wrestle sense some HEW? The wrestlers that had the additional covid year, red shirt, etc... and still competing at the D1 level have to be a little toasty, unless they are freaks and just love the grind of wrestling. Yes I know there are several wrestlers that have used every available option to extend eligibility, but it hasn't ended well for some of these guys. My guess is Keagan and Rocky will lace em up one more year then move on. Some of these guys have been in the starting lineup forever and it's gonna feel strange when they are gone.

So what did you see happening over on the Mizzou bench? Just curious to read your observation, you being a "neutral" wrestling fan junkie. Am I being too harsh with my observation? I was sitting in primo view in the folding chairs, one row above the mat side setting and directly across from coaches/teams.

Really? It's senior day and your wrestling Oklahoma State and promoting the event, encouraging Tiger wrestling fans to pack the arena and set a new attendance record, and Mizzou has a zero back up plan for lineup? Either dual wins are not important or this is a red flag for the coaching staff. Oklahoma State seems to have had a plan. Put a back up on the mat and took a forfeit at 133 and moved Fix up for some insurance. Mizzou got gamed and yes, they did make them look as bad as they did.

So why is that? Could it be the addition of Coleman Scott and new "fire in the belly" and new tweaks on technique? Better recruiting? Better development of their frosh, underclassmen. Mizzou looks like they are dealing with some HEW disease with some of the Covid year upperclassmen. I can't speak to the lineup decisions and why there wasn't another option at 133. I do know that Nate Pulliam had some success at 149 when he started and wonder where he is in the hierarchy at 149. In reference to my own question about why Okie State has trended up, word is Coleman Scott was brought in to eventually take the reigns from the legendary John Smith. He certainly seems to have "filled the bill" from what I see. If Mizzou is going to hold position in the D1 hierarchy of wrestling, it may be time to do the same in Columbia, Missouri. I realize the Oklahoma State, being a wrestling "blue blood", probably gets a bit more pressure to win and have deeper alumni pockets. I guess it comes down to whether Mizzou wrestling wants to take it to the next level, or be happy sitting in the top 10 every year and the continued ethos of Tiger Style. The next question would be who, and I don't think there is anyone on this current staff that can motivate to that level. Just my very biased opinion.

The Mizzou team I saw yesterday is not winning the Big 12 wrestling tournament. There is still time to "right the ship" and also get the line up healthy, but there are some glaring weaknesses on this team right now, including lack of offensive attacks on the feet. Of course, the coaches can teach and drill but wrestlers have to do their share in adapting and tweaking their techniques. The lack of fire is what I'm more concerned about. The close losses suffered yesterday certainly could have gone the other way, and may do so in the Big 12 tournament. Give some credit to Oklahoma State for being motivated and ready to wrestle. "Steel sharpens steel!" Now we can see how the Mizzou coaching staff adjusts to preparing this team for the final haul. This is the most exciting time of the year wrestling fans.

Mizzou has zero excuses for laying this egg. At home with record crowd of 6000 plus. Oklahoma State wrestled Friday and had to travel. I was there and Mizzou got out coached and out toughed. I don't know what to expect from this team right now. Lost all the close battles and got embarrassed on their feet with a total of 2 takedowns. Mizzou coaches and bench looked like they were at a funeral. Okie bench was vocal and animated instructing and firing up their kids and it was indicative of the final score. If things don't change, it's going to be a long cold bus ride from Aims, Iowa

Thanks, I just spewed coffee all over my recliner reading this.

What I am referring to with my comment about coaching is, recruits like Jacques, Jeremiah Kent, Hart, and to an extent, Brock Mauller, all had/having winning careers but how much did their style and technique improve during their Tiger career. Did they max out their potential? That is coaching. Making adjustments with technique, and or strategy when taking loses and devising the practice (physical stylistic and reps) and the mental (confidence/self belief) to best utilize their talent. I pulled my hair out watching Jacques continue to lose matches by one point because of his lack of aggressiveness and calculated style. Probably the telltale is having wrestlers get beat by opponents they beat in the past consistently. Someone made the adjustments and whether that was the coaching or self improvement, it did happen. It's easier to win with the hosses. The HS and feeder programs these kids come from matter also. Sanderson left Iowa State for Penn State for just a 10% bump in salary and he had Iowa State in great shape at the time. Why, because he knew that the Pennsylvania, NJ, Ohio large population areas with traditional high school wrestling powers would be one of the most fertile recruiting areas in the US. Cale also took his coaching staff with him to Penn State. Once you start winning the recruiting battles and racking up the wins, the machine takes care of itself. I've watched the evolution of HS wrestling in Missouri and take pride in being part of that evolution. We were way behind Iowa, Oklahoma, and Illinois in HS talent and coaching. We've closed that gap and have several Missouri HS products wrestling D1. Many of these kids come from HS and club programs coached by former D1 champs, world and Olympic wrestlers that were home grown. Brian Smith has utilized a lot of Missouri talent to build the Mizzou program to where it is today. We should take pride in that, but we are still missing out on top talent with Missouri ties that have chosen to seek programs they must feel will better their potential. Lillendal, Arnold, Messenbrink all had some state of Missouri connection. Jaden Eirmann left Mizzou because he claimed he needed a change and felt he couldn't reach his potential at Missouri. At what point does Mizzou start being considered a "Blue Blood" in the D1 wrestling hierarchy? Are they there now? I also believe that the Tiger Style brand/culture that Smith has developed over the years is not as cut throat, win first, program and puts emphasis on developing the whole athlete and this is a selling point to certain student athletes. Smith is not going to recruit athletes that don't fit this culture, regardless of what they might bring to the program in wins. Not going to see AJ in a Mizzou singlet. Would I eventually like to see someone like Askren leading the program when Smith finally leaves his shoes at the center of the mat? Much like when Cale packed it up and headed to Penn St. That's a topic for another day.

I'm too cheap to pay for stream coverage and had followed the results on the Tigerstyle Twitter feed, so just seeing scores minus action. Watched the dual on YouTube and Cornell just seemed to be superior in how they were using their set ups on their feet. Without getting on line and seeing where Cornell's lineup is from, gotta think it is obviously influenced highly by east coast and probably a lot of the private wrestling power high schools. Cornell was superior on their feet and with the 3 pt takedown, that's where it is at. Mauller's defensive wrestling got "out slicked!" Edmond needs to finish shots and condition himself to be able to utilize his speed and power for a whole 7 minutes. He has the potential to be a good one if he continues to grow and learn from all these close match losses. Somewhere along the line the coaches need to be held accountable if their athletes are not progressing/adapting to improve. Any coach can win if they are recruiting well and getting the studs. It's what those coaches do to improve their next terre athletes that define the success of the program. Winning takes care of itself. Guess I'm getting to be one of those spoiled fanatic types and need to remember what Mizzou wrestling was like before coach Smith took the reigns.

I grew up in KC so I know the city well. I'm going to be curious to hear the comments about venue and area hospitality, like the "Power and Light District." I have a conflict for that weekend but may see if I can attend at least a session just to get the vibe. The Big 12 has hosted their basketball championships in KC forever and the fans seem to love it. Be sure to post your unbiased opinion, good or bad. Will be pulling for the Elams that weekend as they are local boys, as was their dad. One of the only benefits of being a old codgiur is following generational progression. Hoping you have a wonderful nationals experience in KC and want to come back.

So Mizzou loses a dual to a tough Cornell team on the road. Props to Cornell, they wrestled tough as hell today. That's why Mizzou needs to continue to wrestle a tough, quality schedule that wrestling fans appreciate, while preparing them for the "big prize" at the end of the season. When you lose, don't lose the lesson! Time to get back in the room and start preparing for Oklahoma State.

KCMO2, actually I've been watching Brock wrestle ever since his HS days at Father Tolton. We all know what Brock is good at, and so do well coached opponents. He does score offensive points off of counters and very disciplined/intentional with his style. The kids won over 100 matches so it has obviously worked for him. But it's the situation where the opponent has the lead in the third period and just has to look busy and stay in good position and not take risk. I'm a Brock Mauller fan and want to see him on that top step at nats. The guys standing on the top of the podium are usually dominant-offensively on their feet. Doesn't hurt to be a KO and have both.

Thanks flyingcement and 1032004 for the match updates and interjected humor. Mizzou came to wrestle for sure. So now I wonder what this means with Seltzer in the lineup at 141? Also, I'd still like to see Mauller score some offensive takedowns. It's going to bite him later if he doesn't improve in that phase of his wrestling. I wonder how often he drills with KO? Going to be some big tests coming up so I guess we will find out. Been fun watching some of the new blood starters. I love this time of the year.

I had this dual circled since the Tiger schedule had been released. This dual has been competitive and entertaining and with the possibility of a lineup bump, Otoole vs Lewis, and Mauller vs Andonian "dog fight", it was a no brainer to jump in the car and do the 2+ hour drive from BFE Missouri on a week night. I have a "12 hour rule", learned via school of hard knocks, about making comments before adjusting perspective, minus emotion, and definitely sober. I've earned all my grey hair. When I arrived for the dual, Mizzou was giving away foam hands with 3 fingers held up indicating 3 pt takedowns, and this was part of the theme for the night. I got a chuckle when a Tiger fan commented that AJ Ferrari would need 2 of em! I would find my self commenting during earlier matches that I'm not sure I'd send my kid to a Tiger Style Camp to learn offensive takedowns, as V. Tech was hitting some textbook singles and scoring the initial 3. This is where I have to be a little selective in my interpretation, and maybe my view is skewed. Over the years, the Tigers have infused more "funk" into their repertoire, and that style leads to defensive strategies. Great when it works, not so in the current 3 pt takedown scenario and it could be the difference in finding the podium at season end. Anyhow, your getting my take so here we go: Noah going all out with the lateral attempt in OT, I'll call that a "growing opportunity." I'm not a mouse in the Tiger wrestling room so I don't have privy to how they approach OT strategy. Moore-that stick was electric. Going to be fun watching this kid continue to develop. Absolutely love his fire. Edmond-that was a head scratcher. I was excited about seeing him at 141, and when he was a frosh he was exciting to watch with his explosive speed. I certainly don't want to short change VT'S Tom Crook, as he is tough kid, but Edmond seemed to be in control until the crash out a bounds and then it was like he switch got flipped off. Don't know if it was conditioning or what. Now I question how much he is improving. Gioffre-gave up the first takedown but hung in tough with #2 Henson, with funky style. Another wrestler that might surprise. Mauller-I can't hide my frustration I have with Brock and his defensive/control style of wrestling. I always thought that Brock and J. Jacques must have been practice partners as their styles are so much alike. Brock is a beast physically. Gotta think if he would open up more with leg attacks, with his strength, he can score. Mauller and Andonian are not new to each other and styles totally conflicting. You can flip a coin between these two any time they wrestle, and with their experience, I think it would be disappointing and a lack of achieving potential if they don't finish in the top 3. Coaches gotta coach. Break score Miz-6, VT-12. What's the plan Stan? Are we going to see the Otoole-Lewis showdown. Who's doing the math? I was wondering if we might see Steed in the lineup at 165, but I also know he was injured wrestling in a previous tournament and may not be available. Speculation came to an end when Otoole reported to the mat and proceeded to do KO stuff for the tech. Conway-took one for the team. Tough draw for anyone not named KO or Starocci. It was coming down to NCT "nutt cutting time" and Whiting is the project that we all wondered about, and finally arrived. Another exciting, aggressive wrestling style and the guy moves like he is a middle weight. Whiting didn't disappoint with the major. Elam 1-Speculation flying. Why has Rocky been out of the line up? Hell if I know, but whatever it was, he's back. I was pretty sure the match was in the bag after Whitting's match, Rockys major adding the first layer of frosting. Elam 2-and by the way, I'm so old I watched their dad Bryan wrestle in HS. We knew Zach would be a monster as he continued to fill out his frame. Now it's a matter of continuing the positioning and technique improvements and having Dom Bradley as a coach/training partner is certainly a plus. Decision Elam. Victory and dual current streak alive fir the season. A dual win always makes that damn drive home much easier.