VakAttack

Can neither confirm nor deny whether Cael has started negotiations from matside with a potential Nagao replacement....

Hit me up. Tomorrow, I'm going to bed, lol.

What seed was he?

"Name a wrestler who murdered a Vak fantasy team."

I distinctly remember Joe LeBlanc from Wyoming missing weight, but on Day 3.

I feel like we got crosswise here, where I'm mostly talking about the previous Suriano situation whereas you're debating the current Starocci situation, so I apologize for being unclear. I don't think there's anything particularly untoward about the Starocci situation at present, pending whatever happens on Thursday; I fully expect Starocci will wrestle, but I believe he will be a diminished version (though I hope I'm wrong.)

So what happens when the sport continues to erode?

Wilson is secondary to this question to me. I don't care. As I believe @nhs67 said, don't go 16-12 and place 9th at B1Gs. As to the former Penn State wrestlers, I would say it's more a combination of "defending their program" and "playing with language." Your portraying it as if anyone saying opposite them is claiming a gran conspiracy by them. It's relatively straightforward and doesn't involve any sort of planning. Everybody knew, at the time, that there was no way Suriano was going to be able to wrestle. It was discussed on forums, in media, on socials, etc. he broke his ankle. Cael and Penn State waited to the last second to pull him because it kept Picc on in Gilman's quarter because after a certain point, they wouldn't reseed. It was gamesmanship, and it worked. It also made the actual tournament a little more lame.

Because Oklahoma State was a potential threat to a team title. Just because the team score ended up lopsided, they don't know the team score beforehand. and the best teams, even when expected to win, are always looking for edges. Look at the Patriots in the NFL. Obviously New England crossed a line a couple of times, and I'm NOT saying Penn State has crossed a line; I don't think they've done anything against the rules. From my perspective, it's a question of "right thing" and individual's responsibility to a struggling sport vs. responsibility solely to their team.

I'm not relying on Manning, this has been a known and discussed issue since when it happened. There's a reason it's literally a running joke in wrestling circles about "he's downstairs drilling right now."

I'd be interested to hear @Husker_Du's thoughts, since we know he has friends and connections with both programs, and is not afraid to let his voice be heard on difficult subjects.

To play devil's advocate, where does responsibility to the sport come in? Because it's not like wrestling is a vibrant, thriving sport, and there is no overarching body that cares directly for the health of NCAA wrestling. There are outside bodies that try to promote, like NWCA or USA Wrestling, but if our sport is slowly dying, do the coaches have some responsibility to maximize the product so that it's around for decades, or is their only responsibility to try to win each year?

I agree. In my head the arguments are separate.

I'm fine as long as those guys are penalized in the seeding for a short season, specifically when they don't dominate during their shortened season. And Carter got the 9 seed, so he was penalized.

How is that holding Penn State accountable? They already have guidelines. Are you saying that people who don't wrestle x number of matches shouldn't even be considered for the tournament? I definitely don't agree with that.

I think he feels that Starocci being seeded 1st and defaulting basically blew up the bracket, costing Wilson a spot, not that Wilson should be in over Starocci. It's definitely a loser's lament on Manning's part.

Well there are some reliable narrators. Come on now. Let's not be blind. His ankle was broken. They didn't break any rules, but it's definitely a little morally gray.

What do you propose?

He's not wrong. PSU gamed the Suriano situation to try to minimize Picc's tournament scoring. And it worked! It comes down to "what's the important thing?" PSU coaches, is it solely their job to win, or do they bear some responsibility to "do right by the sport"? I see both side of that argument. ETA: i don't think the Starocci example is the same situation as Suriano.

Sold, we'll pay out at $180, $80, and $40.

Alright, good draft! Looking forward to the tournament, but would encourage you to consider hopping on the Zoom next year! It made for some fun discussion (and smacktalk... @jajensen09, you probably didn't want to be there. ) To address an earlier question, the payouts will be top 3 (to match the team trophies at NCAAs). My proposed payout scale is 1st Place: $180 2nd Place: $100 3rd Place: $20 (money back) But I'm open to doing 2nd place $80, 3rd place $40 if you guys think that's better.

@nhs67

@MPhillips

@Perry

@MizzouFan01