dragit

It's been kind of a slow season so I invested some time instead in re-reading the Zavoral book and the HBO documentary now owned by Flo regarding Gable's last season. It's kind of jarring, bordering on grotesque, seeing that video filmed in the same wrestling mecca where Jesse Whitmer trained to be a one time starter, one time champion; where Lincoln McIlravy overcame headaches to win a third title and finish 96-3; etc., etc. Maybe someone could do a wellness check on the Gable statue. It's one thing to get thumped in a dual by the 13th ranked team; it's another allowing your room to be used for this crap. The way to turn around the first part of that sentence is not by turning to the second part of that sentence.

That was brutal. Just brutal. Frankly Brown, an otherwise admirable person, also gets demerits for the final he won, with the cheap move, dropping to his knees so that the ref with the trigger finger would call locked hands on Wilps.

He and Gibbons are a very pleasant pair together. I think they did Iowa - Iowa State.

Sparks is a plus for sure. The caffeination can sometimes overwhelm you but it's hard as a wrestling fan to hold it against him that he unabashedly loves wrestling. He does handle the PBP job professionally. He does a good job of getting a lot out of Gibbons, who we're lucky to have, and whose calm demeanor matches up well with the Sparks enthusiasm. And Sparks is way better than Tim Johnson at working stats and history anecdotes into the flow of the match rather than as a data dump that interferes with the action.

Good point, there were a lot of loose ends that just vanished. Joseph going for a third national title while as pointed out above having been 0-4 at Big Tens. Also possibly another installment of his wars with Marinelli. Luke Pletcher and Kollin Moore looking ready to finish their careers with an elusive championship. I actually thought that these two were the ones hurt the most. They'd been kind of forgotten terrific wrestlers for the previous years in their careers and then in their senior years put it all together. Mark Hall getting a Valencia-free run at nationals, healthy Kemerer getting a rematch against him. Joseph, Pletcher, Moore, and Hall all seniors so don't get a covid year, just like that their careers are over. Sebastian Rivera taking his shot at a title while healthy and not exhausted from cutting to 125 and having just put his stamp on an incredibly tough weight class at Big Tens with high-scoring wins over past and future NCAA champs Gross and RBY. And would the usual Penn State rules apply--losses in the Big Ten Final avenged two weeks later (RBY/Nick Lee/Joseph)?

I know it sounds ridiculous but it's a situation that happens sometimes. You've got the ball. I swipe in and knock it hard out of your hands. 100% of the time without replay you guys get the ball. But they go to replay and the frame by frame shows that it technically rolled off your fingertip after I hit it. So I knocked the ball out but it's off you. The rest of the game it's always called the other way, so it's not a mistake by the ref.

I hate current replay in most sports as I don't think it justifies the stoppage, particularly because they blow the call anyway a lot, and because they can't reverse when everyone knows they should a lot. It's particularly frustrating in wrestling because it's an action sport and a conditioning sport. As a fan the stoppages have noticeably lessened the viewing experience for me. One of the best selling points for the sport previously was that there aren't any timeouts. That's gone by the wayside. I'm not totally anti electronic help. Tennis has been helped enormously by many tournaments going all laser calls. If the ball lands out, a recorded voice instantly yells, "out," and the point is over. There are no arguments at all. Who can you argue with? Also, the players have confidence in the accuracy. This improves play quality, because you don't have players getting doubts in their mind about the fairness of the competition. Someone mentioned balls and strikes in baseball. I actually advocate that they go all electronic on balls and strikes, and get rid of replay for everything else, all other calls stand. Missed balls and strikes affect the outcome of baseball games 10 times more than missed other calls. The players have zero confidence in the home plate umpires, most of whom are not good at their jobs, which are very hard even if you're good at it (ball moving 95 mph, moving a foot or more, large human blocking your view). My understanding is that the minor league experiment, kind of like the old tennis system of challenges, worked very well and did NOT slow down the game. The pitcher, catcher, or hitter immediately touches their hat, and the ump is immediately given the call. That's it. It really depends on the physics of the sport and whether, like tennis, but generally unlike wrestling, they're susceptible to a clear, objective, electronic result. But I start with a bias against because the breaks in action are so substantial, and the results often ridiculous (last minutes of an NBA game are a joke, so long, and they screw up all the time). Another thing and I'll shut up. A lot of the overrules are to me pretty pointless. When a runner slides in safe and then is off the base for .00001 seconds when his foot comes off before his hand comes on, have we accomplished something by calling him out? There are also some situations in basketball where the last person to touch the ball is basically a technicality, it's been knocked out by someone else.

Maybe he could ask Jordan Burroughs and Kyle Snyder about whether they, as people who had similar training and success in college while developing a marketable skill, have any suggestions about a career that could last well over decade from his current age and make him a millionaire.

You're a beast.

Yeah but go the other way. Did Cael look like the national champ his redshirt year?

Those all all good points but they don't address the most relevant question. How confident are you that Cael would have won NCAAs as a true freshman?

So I was walking past the TV the other day and someone was on saying something to the effect of, You don't really understand the complexities of what Tom Cruise does. He does his own stunts, he's working constantly, driving everyone else around him to do better, etc. Same thing here - no one understands the complexities of arguing on the message board. Case in point: When do I play my hole card? If I'm too quick, then the argument could get ignored in the flurry of other postings, but if I wait too long, then nobody's really paying attention any more. Anyway, I think it's time for my Dake Trump Card: People, he accomplished so much with the most rudimentary, prehistoric training methods. Back in college he didn't know anything about nutrition, about collagens, about sunlight, about functional patterns, electric waves. It's a wonder he could even stay upright, and he smoked David Taylor three times in a row. Case closed. GOAT.

Really good points in here. On the redshirting, while what you say is accurate, it doesn't go to what I think is the key point/question: Would Cael have been a 4x champ if he hadn't redshirted? Obviously it's a hypothetical, so I can't claim anything conclusively, but I don't have high confidence that he would have won an NCAA title 9 months out of high school. And if he doesn't win 4, then he's obviously not in the conversation.

You hit the key points of my ritual argument for Dake: 1. No redshirt, no redshirt, no redshirt. Huge difference. He won an NCAA championship nine months after he was in high school. How confident is everyone Cael would have done that? 2. Never really in substantial jeopardy at NCAAs. And his four wins in the finals were notable. Marion, who made another final and lost in OT, and who lost a semi on calls so extreme that they contributed to rule changes. He absolutely brutalized Molinaro, who then became an undefeated national champ. Then St. John, who won the next year. And the coup de grace was the great David Taylor, who won the Hodge the year before and the year after. Kyle Dake, sitting on three titles, went up a weight to where he wasn't even cutting to wrestle the Hodge winner, and beat him three times in a row in three completely different matches. This is an extraordinary fact. 3. Not as dominant before NCAAs, but he was putting together a very strong academic record at an Ivy League school and cutting a lot of weight the years he lost matches. It's reality -- that's a very big impediment that's gonna lead to competing in a lot of matches when you're just exhausted. I think picking Cael is totally reasonable and defensible. But I have Dake at least in a tie with him.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/39337111/miami-te-cam-mccormick-granted-ninth-year-eligibility Our 6th and 7th year guys are pikers, apparently.

Nice. Props to Tim Johnson, who I oft criticize, for that classic call.

Dake was too expensive so they hired AJ?

All worthy candidates but I vote Snyder for dropping his redshirt to beat a guy on an 80+ match winning streak who was 50 pounds heavier in a classic overtime match at Madison Square Garden to cap off a night of great matches.

There were dozens of gems, thanks to all who posted there; and it's so subjective, but for pure farcical value, I was partial to the very first post: How much money is Cael offering you to take over for Aaron Brooks?

It seems to me that the fact that people are talking about the possibility that this student athlete might find a team to wrestle for in NAIA illustrates why continuing discussion of the issue (on a wrestling board) is not gratuitous. Not only would allowing him to injure another victim be immoral, one would think it would also expose the new university to substantial liability.

Agree. Particularly because he comes across as an intelligent guy in his interviews, which makes his directing of this s#%$@ show so surprising and tragic.

The dad appears to have substantial sway. Does he honestly not understand that the behavior is unacceptable for student athletes, or does he facilitate this because he thinks that the notoriety derived from lawless and/or classless behavior will be ultimately financially rewarding through WWE, UFC, internet sales, etc.?

Snark alert. Absent Aaron Brooks getting run over by a bus (or someone hitting his car doing 100 mph in the wrong lane) AJ isn't going to be a 4 timer even if Northern Colorado gives him a singlet this yeat.

Speaking of mothers, it needs to be emphasized again, how amazing and how great for the sport is Mrs. Lilliard? If you've read her posts that Mineo posted by screenshot, they are starkly honest, direct, dignified, and forceful -- and with zero malice toward the wrestler who injured her son. Although the subsequent events have been opaque, it appears that her decency and determination are the only things that have finally put a stop to this dangerous conduct.

Agree. They and she don't seem to be providing further information, so while it's possible that the school finally took action on its own, based on past performance, my guess is that the coach, although pissed, hadn't kicked him off, and the athletic department continued to slumber, then her complaint comes in, it triggers some sort of a reporting protocol, which leads to someone with a working cranium and/or someone with an active bar card finally being looped in (at least a year late), which leads to a quick realization that the mom's son has a very strong claim against the university (complete with videotape!), which leads to a quick dismissal of the athlete from the team, and the beginning of settlement discussions, which leads to both sides not commenting further publicly.