Mesenbrink transfer

[scourge165]

9 hours ago, jchapman said:

Correct, Henning was the last Wisconsin native in the finals for UW.  Andy Rein was the last champ in 1980.

Brandvold should have been, but still...his return on Prep Wrestlers from Wisconsin was awful. There are numerous more examples.

A few guys he should or could have gone after like Yan White or Ryan Allen who would have likely have a lot of success, but were late bloomers. 

NOW...well, Wisconsin has the talent, but....well, that's already been established. 

[Ivan Stankowski]

8 hours ago, scourge165 said:

Brandvold should have been, but still...his return on Prep Wrestlers from Wisconsin was awful. There are numerous more examples.

A few guys he should or could have gone after like Yan White or Ryan Allen who would have likely have a lot of success, but were late bloomers. 

NOW...well, Wisconsin has the talent, but....well, that's already been established. 

For sure it has been established, my question is do you think it will get fixed any time soon?

[scourge165]

1 minute ago, Ivan Stankowski said:

For sure it has been established, my question is do you think it will get fixed any time soon?

No...I actually meant to say, "it's been established why they're not going to Wisconsin," but...

Absolutely not. 

 

You could hire Nick Becker. He's a exceptional coach and he's already got the Askren stamp of approval, but...how much do you go out of your way to placate ONE person? 

I don't know the answer to that.

[jchapman]

5 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

No...I actually meant to say, "it's been established why they're not going to Wisconsin," but...

Absolutely not. 

 

You could hire Nick Becker. He's a exceptional coach and he's already got the Askren stamp of approval, but...how much do you go out of your way to placate ONE person? 

I don't know the answer to that.

It is looking like placating Ben might actually be the move to make, as much as it seems weird, borderline unethical, (however it might be interpreted).  He has so much influence over elite talent, he is literally placing future AAs and NCs at colleges.  If he starts "choosing" UW, it could elevate them to perennial top 5.

[Idaho]

15 minutes ago, jchapman said:

It is looking like placating Ben might actually be the move to make, as much as it seems weird, borderline unethical, (however it might be interpreted).  He has so much influence over elite talent, he is literally placing future AAs and NCs at colleges.  If he starts "choosing" UW, it could elevate them to perennial top 5.

Will Ben become the Scott Boras of NCAA wrestling? 

[Chestcrusher]

AWA Team if they all went to the same school. 55 total points and would have been tied for 7th with Arizona State. 

 

165-O'Toole Champ 22.5

174-Mocco 7th  5.5

184-Keckeisen 2nd 17

[Formally140]

56 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

No...I actually meant to say, "it's been established why they're not going to Wisconsin," but...

Absolutely not. 

 

You could hire Nick Becker. He's a exceptional coach and he's already got the Askren stamp of approval, but...how much do you go out of your way to placate ONE person? 

I don't know the answer to that.

I get you don’t like Askren but his opinion about Bono isn’t out of nowhere 

[11986]

13 minutes ago, Chestcrusher said:

AWA Team if they all went to the same school. 55 total points and would have been tied for 7th with Arizona State. 

 

165-O'Toole Champ 22.5

174-Mocco 7th  5.5

184-Keckeisen 2nd 17

impressive but not 55 points

[Le duke]

AWA Team if they all went to the same school. 55 total points and would have been tied for 7th with Arizona State. 
 
165-O'Toole Champ 22.5
174-Mocco 7th  5.5
184-Keckeisen 2nd 17

Might want to check your math there.


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[Chestcrusher]

3 minutes ago, Le duke said:

Might want to check your math there.


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My bad 45 which would put them in 12th. 

[Ivan Stankowski]

1 hour ago, scourge165 said:

No...I actually meant to say, "it's been established why they're not going to Wisconsin," but...

Absolutely not. 

 

You could hire Nick Becker. He's a exceptional coach and he's already got the Askren stamp of approval, but...how much do you go out of your way to placate ONE person? 

I don't know the answer to that.

 

55 minutes ago, jchapman said:

It is looking like placating Ben might actually be the move to make, as much as it seems weird, borderline unethical, (however it might be interpreted).  He has so much influence over elite talent, he is literally placing future AAs and NCs at colleges.  If he starts "choosing" UW, it could elevate them to perennial top 5.

That may happen sooner than later 

[scourge165]

8 hours ago, Formally140 said:

I get you don’t like Askren but his opinion about Bono isn’t out of nowhere 

I'm not getting into that.

I'll just say they're both Men with VERY large ego's and...leave it there. It's not something that needs to be hashed out MORE on a public board. 

[Formally140]

1 hour ago, scourge165 said:

I'm not getting into that.

I'll just say they're both Men with VERY large ego's and...leave it there. It's not something that needs to be hashed out MORE on a public board. 

I know a lot more than you’d think. Your attitude about it comes across as naive 

[scourge165]

9 hours ago, jchapman said:

It is looking like placating Ben might actually be the move to make, as much as it seems weird, borderline unethical, (however it might be interpreted).  He has so much influence over elite talent, he is literally placing future AAs and NCs at colleges.  If he starts "choosing" UW, it could elevate them to perennial top 5.

Well, the Becker's are genuinely great people and I think Nick would get the most out of his Wrestlers(not that Bono does or doesn't).

One issue is that Craig might not want to leave his position(I think he's a director of facilities at Parkside...which was a way to keep him engaged in the program). So are you going to have two Beckers on staff? Will Craig take a paycut to be the #3? And who can you get to be your #2? Reader would likely be loyal to Bono(assuming he could snag another job).

I'd go after Branvold hard, but what are you offering that UofM isn't?
Andrew Howe would be a great guy to have in the room, but you need a big guy.
Gross may stick around, but again, he's loyal to Bono, just not sure

 

But just hypothetically, 

Guys they've lost out on who've yet to Wrestle a College match.

Fill in Rivera at '25/'33(I have no clue what he'll do, but he is as talented as any of these Wrestlers...sans Hopke at his best), Estrada or Root at '49. Rowley, Cordon and others would likely be depth. 
'41 Clark
'49 
'57 Messenbrink
'65 Millard/Scoles
'74 Sinclair/Wyatt Duchateau
'84 Mirasola/Whiting
'97 Mirasola
HWT Hopke

That's a team that would win a trophy...in a couple years with Nick Becker and then...I'd guess the real question is how big of an aberration is '24? Again, Wollbert was great, but is there enough talent following them? It SEEMS like there is with guys like Wyatt Ingram or whoever it may be, but that should be a consideration as we've made some nice inroads out West and I'm not sure Becker is going to hit the road recruiting at a high level across the Country.

The State could REALLY get behind that program as it's just easier with in-state products...look at Penn State fans and Spencer Lee...some give a little shit, but most still take pride in one of PAs have success...even if they want to kick the shit out of Iowa.

I WISH we just had two adults who were capable of coming together and working their shit out, but as that doesn't appear as though it's gonna happen...

 

We should also keep in mind, Askren is still a Mizzou alum. He still has a VERY good relationship with Smith(understandably so, he is a helluva coach who believed in him, 5X finalist, 3X Champ between he and his brother(obviously 2 were his own). So you're not just getting every Wisconsin kid. But you'd at least be in consideration(and yes, I know these kids all have their own minds, but we ALL know how you look up to a guy you've been working with for 7-8 years, who coaches you to Fargo NCs or World Titles if you're good enough...and that influence holds a LOT of sway).

 

 

[scourge165]

18 minutes ago, Formally140 said:

I know a lot more than you’d think. Your attitude about it comes across as naive 

I never "thought" you were ignorant about the topic, nor did I say you were.

I simply said I didn't think it was something we needed to hash out on a public board and that they both have big egos.

Now...which part of that is naïve or are you taking exception to?

[Formally140]

5 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

I never "thought" you were ignorant about the topic, nor did I say you were.

I simply said I didn't think it was something we needed to hash out on a public board and that they both have big egos.

Now...which part of that is naïve or are you taking exception to?

The way you’re reading the situation and the people 

[Gus]

10 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Well, the Becker's are genuinely great people and I think Nick would get the most out of his Wrestlers(not that Bono does or doesn't).

One issue is that Craig might not want to leave his position(I think he's a director of facilities at Parkside...which was a way to keep him engaged in the program). So are you going to have two Beckers on staff? Will Craig take a paycut to be the #3? And who can you get to be your #2? Reader would likely be loyal to Bono(assuming he could snag another job).

I'd go after Branvold hard, but what are you offering that UofM isn't?
Andrew Howe would be a great guy to have in the room, but you need a big guy.
Gross may stick around, but again, he's loyal to Bono, just not sure

 

But just hypothetically, 

Guys they've lost out on who've yet to Wrestle a College match.

Fill in Rivera at '25/'33(I have no clue what he'll do, but he is as talented as any of these Wrestlers...sans Hopke at his best), Estrada or Root at '49. Rowley, Cordon and others would likely be depth. 
'41 Clark
'49 
'57 Messenbrink
'65 Millard/Scoles
'74 Sinclair/Wyatt Duchateau
'84 Mirasola/Whiting
'97 Mirasola
HWT Hopke

That's a team that would win a trophy...in a couple years with Nick Becker and then...I'd guess the real question is how big of an aberration is '24? Again, Wollbert was great, but is there enough talent following them? It SEEMS like there is with guys like Wyatt Ingram or whoever it may be, but that should be a consideration as we've made some nice inroads out West and I'm not sure Becker is going to hit the road recruiting at a high level across the Country.

The State could REALLY get behind that program as it's just easier with in-state products...look at Penn State fans and Spencer Lee...some give a little shit, but most still take pride in one of PAs have success...even if they want to kick the shit out of Iowa.

I WISH we just had two adults who were capable of coming together and working their shit out, but as that doesn't appear as though it's gonna happen...

 

We should also keep in mind, Askren is still a Mizzou alum. He still has a VERY good relationship with Smith(understandably so, he is a helluva coach who believed in him, 5X finalist, 3X Champ between he and his brother(obviously 2 were his own). So you're not just getting every Wisconsin kid. But you'd at least be in consideration(and yes, I know these kids all have their own minds, but we ALL know how you look up to a guy you've been working with for 7-8 years, who coaches you to Fargo NCs or World Titles if you're good enough...and that influence holds a LOT of sway).

 

 

Sinclair ain’t touching 174

[scourge165]

2 minutes ago, Formally140 said:

The way you’re reading the situation and the people 

By saying I don't want to hash it out here in this thread?

Doesn't seem like there's a whole lot I can do about that then. I don't think it does literally ANY good to go back why I think what about who or vice versa. 

[Formally140]

12 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

By saying I don't want to hash it out here in this thread?

Doesn't seem like there's a whole lot I can do about that then. I don't think it does literally ANY good to go back why I think what about who or vice versa. 

No.. your attitude about Bono and askren is naive is what I’ve said from the get go. Especially because most of it looks like resentment of Askren and irritation he’s not sending kids to Wisconsin. 

[scourge165]

6 minutes ago, Gus said:

Sinclair ain’t touching 174

Maybe he's an '84, but he's been able to bump up to '95 and 220 because he's just that much better than everyone. 

He's ~5'8. He's definitely thick...big legs, core, but I don't think '74 would be that big of a cut. He's around ~190 walking around(or was just last summer). 

He's got a much smaller frame than Keckeisen for example.

[scourge165]

Just now, Formally140 said:

No.. your attitude about Bono and askren is naive is what I’ve said from the get go. Especially because most of it looks like resentment of Askren and irritation he’s not sending kids to Wisconsin. 

Oh...ok. You couldn't be more wrong. I don't like that you have to kiss Askren's ass or that he's had a feud with UW since his recruitment. That's ABSOLUTELY NOT my issue with Askren.

But AGAIN...this is shit I'm not going to hash out or go into personal detail on an internet forum. 

That apparently isn't good enough for you and you're pushing for some debate over Askren vs Bono...and I'm not going to engage. But you can keep tell me how naïve I am.

[Theo Brixton]

16 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Maybe he's an '84, but he's been able to bump up to '95 and 220 because he's just that much better than everyone. 

He's ~5'8. He's definitely thick...big legs, core, but I don't think '74 would be that big of a cut. He's around ~190 walking around(or was just last summer). 

He's got a much smaller frame than Keckeisen for example.

Sinclair needs to get to the right weight if he is going to reach his potential at the next level. Whether that's 174 or 184 is unclear but it surely isn't 197 with his current frame.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Theo Brixton

[scourge165]

33 minutes ago, Theo Brixton said:

Sinclair needs to get to the right weight if he is going to reach his potential at the next level. Whether that's 174 or 184 is unclear but it surely isn't 197.

Agreed. I just think he's been Wrestling without cutting...really any weight because he just hasn't had to. He's SO slick, but at the next level..just thinking about him Wrestling a guy like Elam or Trumble, that'd be tough. Or more realistically, someone like Sasso. 

I'd put him at 174 if he was starting at Missouri this year, but given that he's got 2 years(Edit-if he takes a RS), he could easily continue to fill out and hit '84 and have a Max Dean type build.

Whichever weight he's at...he's going to be in the mix early on for a title...IMO.

Edited April 21, 2023 by scourge165

[poorwrestler]

Announcing commitment at 4pm central I believe


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[Gus]

10 hours ago, scourge165 said:

Agreed. I just think he's been Wrestling without cutting...really any weight because he just hasn't had to. He's SO slick, but at the next level..just thinking about him Wrestling a guy like Elam or Trumble, that'd be tough. Or more realistically, someone like Sasso. 

I'd put him at 174 if he was starting at Missouri this year, but given that he's got 2 years(Edit-if he takes a RS), he could easily continue to fill out and hit '84 and have a Max Dean type build.

Whichever weight he's at...he's going to be in the mix early on for a title...IMO.

I get that you think that he should cut down and wrestle 174 but with him never cutting any weight for any international teams or anything I am pretty skeptical that he will decide to suck 20-25 pounds in college. Askren has stated that Aiden is a 197 in college.... There is not a ton of examples of shorter guys succeeding at 197 but one that comes to mind is Morgan McIntosh - and Sinclair is a similar level recruit to what Morgan was.