PortaJohn Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, LJB said: to be fair... i have made the assertion he is not a technical wrestler... that seems to be akin to slapping his momma... apologies all around... Yeah, gonna have to disagree. He's technically sound Edited January 26, 2023 by PortaJohn I Don't Agree With What I Posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 6 minutes ago, LJB said: to be fair... i have made the assertion he is not a technical wrestler... that seems to be akin to slapping his momma... apologies all around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 10 minutes ago, PortaJohn said: Yeah, gonna have to disagree. He's technically sound technically sound at what he does? i would agree... a technical wrestler? not even a little... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, bnwtwg said: No respect until then, because a preteen mean-mugged another preteen how many years ago... i missed this gem... lee was 17 at the time and my kid had just turned 13... lee wrestling 50kg in the finals against a current teammate at the time... my kid had just won schoolboy greco and free at 75lbs... that was why it was so weird... it made no sense... a 2X age level world champ mean mugging a kid who weighs 40lbs less than he did and was 4-1/2 years younger... till i saw the team big hoodie my kid was wearing... lee mean mugging a 13 year old kid mat side who was hanging out to watch to watch another stud who had just dropped lee two straight... that other stud and my boys all trained together at the same club when we lived in OK... derek and i laughed about that later... i won't say what he said, but, rivals become rivals for a reason... it is just one of a million wrestling amusements i have had over the years... i didn't think any less of lee then or now... it was actually extremely amusing after the initial WTF of it all... Edited January 26, 2023 by LJB slightly more context... not that it will matter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_Taco Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, LJB said: ugh... just for the record for those painfully average posters and their painfully average takes... i like iowa... i like the brands... i like spencer lee... i like tough wrestling... i am a greco guy, so, poo style tough wrestling is a bit of snickering point for me, but, whatever... one of my kids wrestled for a cadet bronze at cadet worlds in 2021... he was 15... he lost... he was bummed... so was i... but it was cadets... it legitimately does not matter... there is no statistical correlation between cadet success and senior success... that is a fact... i was way more bummed when my other kid got the paws put on him at junior worlds last year... so was he because that is when it starts to actually show that you are on the right path... again, spencer lee's junior gold came at 50kg... that is a child... there is no statistical correlation between 50kg juniors and senior success... i believe when this was a topic at the time it actually happened we found one 50kg in the history of ever that actually won a senior medal... it could have been two... whatever senior nationals is a step... that is it... and if your main domestic challenges do not even bother to show up, then , it is just a big piece of wood at the end of it... for most the reality of being good enough at anything to say "national champ" is something so far out of reach it does seem like a much bigger deal... there are levels to this shit... You're absolutely right. There are levels to this shit and you refuse to recognize what Spencer has gone through to get to this point. Can you point to another wrestler who has gone through the same adversity and still come out on top time and time again like he has? If you want to recognize that there are levels, then recognize that what Spencer is doing on this level through all the adversity is unheard of. This really reads like someone who likes Spencer lol: "technically, Lee has never separated himself as a wrestler... but he can definitely beat up some runts and mids in the c league" Edited January 26, 2023 by Jamie_Taco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 Sorry guys, tried to distract with some good BBQ, didnt work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 2 minutes ago, Jamie_Taco said: You're absolutely right. There are levels to this shit and you refuse to recognize what Spencer has gone through to get to this point. Can you point to another wrestler who has gone through the same adversity and still come out on top time and time again like he has? If you want to recognize that there are levels, then recognize that what Spencer is doing on this level through all the adversity is unheard of. This really reads like someone who likes Spencer lol: "technically, Lee has never separated himself as a wrestler... but he can definitely beat up some runts and mids in the c league" to be fair, it is clear that you are misinterpreting my point about lee "technically"... it was poorly written upon review... lee is not a technical wrestler... he relies on just being stronger and more aggressive than anyone else... he does nothing extraordinary... he is just the best at what he does... again... it is a very nuanced opinion based on actually being around the kid for years... it is a very nuanced opinion based on having multiple teammates actually wrestle the kid... i get you are only a "fan" and i truly apologize for the bubble burst... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_Taco Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 4 minutes ago, LJB said: to be fair, it is clear that you are misinterpreting my point about lee "technically"... it was poorly written upon review... lee is not a technical wrestler... he relies on just being stronger and more aggressive than anyone else... he does nothing extraordinary... he is just the best at what he does... again... it is a very nuanced opinion based on actually being around the kid for years... it is a very nuanced opinion based on having multiple teammates actually wrestle the kid... i get you are only a "fan" and i truly apologize for the bubble burst... LOL guess again, bud. You're right about one thing though. Your idiotic "nuanced" opinions are your own, so stick with it. The rest of us will continue to point out how ridiculous you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 2 minutes ago, Jamie_Taco said: LOL guess again, bud. You're right about one thing though. Your idiotic "nuanced" opinions are your own, so stick with it. The rest of us will continue to point out how ridiculous you are. sorry about that bubble... i really am... but... this has clearly ran its course with you... as an olive branch, i will be more than willing to get spencer's autograph for you if he ever shows up again at a senior event... maybe some used tape... whatever your little heart desires... just let me know... i got you, boo!!! toodles my friend... i am wishing you the best... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 as an aside... i had not watched a spencer lee match in a couple of years, so, in the interest of fair play i went and watched a couple from recently... i still see the exact same "technical wrestling" that i have always seen from him... **spoiler alert** he won both of the matches i watched... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponzi Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 1 hour ago, LJB said: it is 100% not the only viable path... it is just the most common and the one that is expected by those that want to use our athletes to prop up a scummy organization... doing something for the sole reason that it has always been done like that is such small minded thinking... cejudo pico all proved there are different paths... my youngest quit folk after his freshmen year because it is awful... he was a state finalist at his walk around as a freshmen... he is now a national champ and an age level world team member... getting ready to move into the OTC so he has the best chance to actually win medals... there are options out there you just have to be willing to go against the grain at times... That you can name one guy (Cejudo) who went another way and another (Pico) who might have, does not prove or even suggest that their path is viable-- even if it is possible. Meanwhile how many Americans have won international medals after wrestling in college. I don't know the number so let's call it X. Whatever X is it's much bigger than 1 or 1.5. I guess Lee could have quit high school and moved to Dagestan. That would have been possible, but not viable and not a good idea. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 5 minutes ago, Ponzi said: That you can name one guy (Cejudo) who went another way and another (Pico) who might have, does not prove or even suggest that their path is viable-- even if it is possible. Meanwhile how many Americans have won international medals after wrestling in college. I don't know the number so let's call it X. Whatever X is it's much bigger than 1 or 1.5. I guess Lee could have quit high school and moved to Dagestan. That would have been possible, but not viable and not a good idea. of those two, one is a gold medalist and the other a trials finalist at 19 and then quit... i gave another example and that has led to a national championship and wrestling for a world medal at 15... text book example of what viable actually means... vi·a·ble /ˈvīəb(ə)l/ capable of working successfully; feasible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle26 Posted January 26, 2023 Author Share Posted January 26, 2023 i saw lee before trials trying to make weight for 50kg juniors... he looked like a damn ghost... as bad as anyone i have ever seen... that is not to say fix doesn't pull some weight, but, don't make up stuff to fit what you want to have happened... lee did not want to go to 50 at all... he had to because he got dropped in 2 straight... and 50kg for 20 year old's is incredibly small... but... find more than one 50kg junior medalist that has medaled at seniors... ever... take as much time as you want...Neither of us know exactly how much Lee was cutting, I was going by the eye test and so are you. However, if he was cutting “as bad as anyone you have ever seen”, and still managed to make weight and pin/tech his way through the world championships, isn’t that even more of a testament to how good he really is? You are picking out one stat that 50kg results don’t translate. I don’t have time to look that up so I’ll have to trust you on it. If you’ve got the time, can you check the stats on how well 3x age level champs do at the next level? Or maybe how well guys that pinned/teched their way through twice do? Or maybe how well 4x Ncaa champs do? Getting ahead of myself with that one, but you get my point. They guys talent is undeniable, but I guess you can keep denying if you want. I’m done trying to prove that point. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragit Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 ... while I enjoyed the interesting flashbacks to junior greco matches from the aughts, I wanted to give a thought about the topic question ... ... And with reference to the other thread and the "GOAT" question. He's not a GOAT at anything - even PA high school. The injuries and illness have made that impossible. I think what Brands is saying is that when Lee isn't burdened by a major injury or illness, no one he's seen is better. Such as freshman year NCAA, 2019 senior nationals, the last few weeks. I don't think it's a ridiculous statement, if you view it in context -- obviously he hasn't had a chance to wrestle senior world tournaments. That's the injuries and illness. But when he's been able to wrestle freely, against the competition he's been able to wrestle, he's a force of nature. It reminds me a little of Sandy Koufax. Extraordinary injury problems, a pitcher's elbow is somewhat akin to a wrestler's knees. His 5 or 6 years before he retired, no one ever was better. But he wouldn't be a GOAT because he had half the wins of others in his category. The difference between him and Lee now is that Lee hasn't wrestled at worlds and shown his stuff there whereas Koufax had a 0.95 ERA in four World Series, two of which he was the MVP of. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 (edited) 46 minutes ago, LJB said: toodles my friend... i am wishing you the best... 41 minutes ago, LJB said: as an aside... Point of parliamentary procedure, when you toodaloo off the thread are you allowed an additional aside? Edited January 26, 2023 by ionel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Cinnabon Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 9 minutes ago, dragit said: ... while I enjoyed the interesting flashbacks to junior greco matches from the aughts, I wanted to give a thought about the topic question ... ... And with reference to the other thread and the "GOAT" question. He's not a GOAT at anything - even PA high school. The injuries and illness have made that impossible. I think what Brands is saying is that when Lee isn't burdened by a major injury or illness, no one he's seen is better. Such as freshman year NCAA, 2019 senior nationals, the last few weeks. I don't think it's a ridiculous statement, if you view it in context -- obviously he hasn't had a chance to wrestle senior world tournaments. That's the injuries and illness. But when he's been able to wrestle freely, against the competition he's been able to wrestle, he's a force of nature. It reminds me a little of Sandy Koufax. Extraordinary injury problems, a pitcher's elbow is somewhat akin to a wrestler's knees. His 5 or 6 years before he retired, no one ever was better. But he wouldn't be a GOAT because he had half the wins of others in his category. The difference between him and Lee now is that Lee hasn't wrestled at worlds and shown his stuff there whereas Koufax had a 0.95 ERA in four World Series, two of which he was the MVP of. Wasn't he the only 4x undefeated PA state champ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le duke Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 Wasn't he the only 4x undefeated PA state champ?Lee wasn’t undefeated or a 4x state champ in PA.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 13 minutes ago, ionel said: Point of parliamentary procedure, when you toodaloo off the thread are you allowed an additional aside? that was a toodle to a specific dude who clearly got a little riled up... it would be bullying to keep it up, so, i let it go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_Taco Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 11 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said: Wasn't he the only 4x undefeated PA state champ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 19 minutes ago, Eagle26 said: Neither of us know exactly how much Lee was cutting, I was going by the eye test and so are you. However, if he was cutting “as bad as anyone you have ever seen”, and still managed to make weight and pin/tech his way through the world championships, isn’t that even more of a testament to how good he really is? You are picking out one stat that 50kg results don’t translate. I don’t have time to look that up so I’ll have to trust you on it. If you’ve got the time, can you check the stats on how well 3x age level champs do at the next level? Or maybe how well guys that pinned/teched their way through twice do? Or maybe how well 4x Ncaa champs do? Getting ahead of myself with that one, but you get my point. They guys talent is undeniable, but I guess you can keep denying if you want. I’m done trying to prove that point. i have never denied his talent... or that he was good at wrestling... or is one of the best ever at the poo style... just that it is laughable he could be consider the best wrestler that has ever lived... i can tell you exactly how many 3X age level world medalists at 50kg have a senior medal... 0... of course i dont know how much lee was acxtually cutting... just that i actually saw him doing it with my own eyes and i can tell you he was not having any fun at all... you are basing it off a result you saw... i can't say for sure, but, i would be very surprised if you knew without looking it up who he wrestled in the finals that year... i can... i have also watched fix pull weight and smile all the way through it... the other point that you are ignoring is that in 2016 it was day before weigh ins... whatever... i get none of you will ever come off the hill... you all will be buried up there... it's fine with me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VakAttack Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 Again, we're talking as if Lee has been retired for several years and lamenting about what could have been. Also we have another guy waxing on about his lack of technical acumen while also claiming he should have left college wrestling and only wrestled international. If he's not that level of talent, what does it matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 Just now, VakAttack said: Again, we're talking as if Lee has been retired for several years and lamenting about what could have been. Also we have another guy waxing on about his lack of technical acumen while also claiming he should have left college wrestling and only wrestled international. If he's not that level of talent, what does it matter? lee is not a technical wrestler... he is a bruiser... clearly he is talented at what he does... you can not find an actual quote where i have said anything to the contrary... you are better than this... you doing aight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 you guys do realize two different things can be true at the same time, yes? i will take your responses off air... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. PeanutButter Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 1 minute ago, LJB said: lee is not a technical wrestler... he is a bruiser... clearly he is talented at what he does... you can not find an actual quote where i have said anything to the contrary... you are better than this... you doing aight? What are some examples of "technical wrestlers"? It's undeniable that he enjoys a significant strength advantage but I guess I don't understand your assertion that he isn't a "technical wrestlers" given that he has a much higher finishing rate on his shots, rarely breaks position, doesn't engage in any silly ankle/funk rolls. You admitted in a previous post that you haven't watched many of his more recent matches soooo.... How much confidence can you have in your own opinions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortaJohn Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 1 minute ago, Mr. PeanutButter said: What are some examples of "technical wrestlers"? If he want to see the most technical of technical wrestlers then watch B. Satiev 1 I Don't Agree With What I Posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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