El Luchador Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 On 2/3/2023 at 11:05 AM, LJB said: one pt takedown at the time might explain why the US actually felt it necessary to work on the position... now we have athletes starting clubs and telling their kids to just folk wrestle overseas... It doesn't help that our refs view everything from a folkstyle perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scourge165 Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 On 1/25/2023 at 8:04 PM, LJB said: i do not "bash" the women's style as much as i just do not respect it as much as real wrestling... it just is not representative of what wrestling started as thousands of years ago... that does not mean i do not recognize freestyle as a top 10 important athletic pursuit... but... it just is not as representative of what we are simulating as proper greco... Ok, so you DON'T respect Freestyle nearly as much as the style of Wrestling where Karelin(and all the myth that went along with him) lost the biggest match in the sports history...because he adjusted his hands? I'll also help you out with why it's easier to turn people in Greco. You can't grab an ankle, a leg, step over and hook the leg...to stop the turn. They also Wrestled Greco naked and oiled up originally...so maybe just being the oldest doesn't ALWAYS make things the best or the newest thing the "women's style." But hey, I'm an outside the box thinking, probably a crazy though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scourge165 Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 On 2/3/2023 at 7:02 AM, forkemaz said: You yourself have never wrestled correct? Just your sons? You should stop running your mouth about what's real wrestling. Or at least be respectful considering your sport is an after thought, the least watched of any of the 3 styles and without the other two it would die in America. So just maybe... be grateful the better styles are here and stop trying so hard to prove Greco-Roman is the best. It's not. Folkstyle Sumo Greco-Roman Freestyle Are you shitting me? I kinda go into this with the assumption that we've all got...at least a HS level background and wrestled some...I don't know, if not Fargo, some Freestyle and Greco. Hearing what "real wrestling" is now is...that much more incredible. Glad he thinks Freestyle is a 'worthy pursuit,' or however he put it! On 2/3/2023 at 9:23 AM, MPhillips said: It's the toughest for sure. That's just...subjective. I'd Wrestle both styles. 12-14 matches in a weekend, beat to hell...it was great. But Greco was always easier...IMO, because it was mostly just hand-fighting and then when you did get on top, it WAS easier to turn. Now, I wasn't blessed with truly elite athletic ability. I couldn't hit blast doubles like JB or scrambled like Dake, but...at the HS level I could work inside and won a lot more in Greco than Freestyle. I just couldn't imagine Wrestling it daily as I thought it was boring. Was Jordan Holm tougher than...I guess it'd be Taylor or Cox? I'll be honest, I haven't checked since I saw HOLM made two straight Greco teams which...to my mind, debunk the ENTIRE "it's the toughest" argument, but whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scourge165 Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 On 2/7/2023 at 12:59 PM, mspart said: Yeah, Nashon took care of ADS at will really. But ADS hung in there and didn't let it get to a Tech fall and ended up winning. That was completely a loss of concentration on Nashon's part. You can be fatigued and keep focus. Or you can be fatigued and lose focus. I think he allowed the latter to happen. That said, kudos to ADS for persevering and taking care of business. mspart Just seems like when you're scoring THAT easily and you get to 10-2...you just suck it up and you put everything you've got into that next TD. That was such a one sided match it didn't look like DeSanto had a chance. I watched it a few days ago, but I actually thought he had the tech. DeSanto got two on a move I thought Garrett initiated when DeSanto was in on a shot(I may not be remembering correctly). That lack of conditioning has to be the result of some type of injury or something, right? He looked so much bigger, cleaner, finishes so easily. And was done in ~2:30. Credit to Austin JAMES DeSanto though. The one thing that kid is not is a quitter. Wrestled his ass off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jross Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 This isn't the first time that Nashon dominated to an early lead and lost for reasons unrelated to injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scourge165 Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 54 minutes ago, jross said: This isn't the first time that Nashon dominated to an early lead and lost for reasons unrelated to injury. No, but I've never seen him score THAT easily and then gas THAT quickly. Maybe it's not an injury. Maybe it's just life. DeSanto just finished College. Garrett is an adult, living life. It's brutal to stay in wrestling shape. I always laugh when I hear about Basketball shape or whatever, but Wrestling shape...it takes you MONTHS to get in it...and that's if you're in great shape to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jross Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 I've watched a lot of Nahshon wrestling on the senior level because of his incredible speed and technique. His early wrestling story is neat too. I'll see if I can find some examples of early leads and late losses. He has a much better gas tank than Iszmail Muszukajev but he has lost multiple matches in the end on the senor level. NG sometimes is like a jeep wrangler going uphill in the wind for the last mile. Iszmail is sometimes like he crashed a racecar into a building and is bedded up in a coma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 in case anyone is curious... yes... i am giggling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jross Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 Its a bit more tedious to find NG's matches than I'd hoped. I did watch a couple matches where he wrestled strong until the end. Impressive. I also found some interview comments where he decided to wrestle just a couple weeks before a senior event... which may explain what I've seen in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 5 hours ago, scourge165 said: I kinda go into this with the assumption that we've all got...at least a HS level background and wrestled some...I don't know, if not Fargo, some Freestyle and Greco. i kinda go into this with the assumption that we've all wrestled outside of this country with a USA on our chests... because the majority of people i deal with on a daily basis have... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Luchador Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 2 hours ago, scourge165 said: No, but I've never seen him score THAT easily and then gas THAT quickly. Maybe it's not an injury. Maybe it's just life. DeSanto just finished College. Garrett is an adult, living life. It's brutal to stay in wrestling shape. I always laugh when I hear about Basketball shape or whatever, but Wrestling shape...it takes you MONTHS to get in it...and that's if you're in great shape to begin with. Scoring points is tiring, I've always felt fast twitch wrestlers had a sort of conditioning disadvantage. All that explosiveness takes an incredible amount of energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jross Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 6 hours ago, LJB said: i kinda go into this with the assumption that we've all wrestled outside of this country with a USA on our chests... because the majority of people i deal with on a daily basis have... I wrestled at two freestyle tournaments in Australia '99 but it was closer to the events seen on an August Wesley resume. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 12 minutes ago, jross said: I wrestled at two freestyle tournaments in Australia '99 but it was closer to the events seen on an August Wesley resume. that is trip down amnesia lane right there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scourge165 Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 15 hours ago, LJB said: i kinda go into this with the assumption that we've all wrestled outside of this country with a USA on our chests... because the majority of people i deal with on a daily basis have... Yes, having some actual Wrestling experience while talking about which style is the toughest is the EXACT same as...having Wrestled abroad for team USA! That...that one got me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPhillips Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 5 hours ago, scourge165 said: Yes, having some actual Wrestling experience while talking about which style is the toughest is the EXACT same as...having Wrestled abroad for team USA! That...that one got me! You aren't picking up what LJB is laying down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 ugh... no matter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scourge165 Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) On 2/11/2023 at 7:40 AM, MPhillips said: You aren't picking up what LJB is laying down. No, apparently I'm not. ' I DID catch that he's never actually wrestled and yet he calls Freestyle the "Women's style," in what's clearly a demeaning way because Greco was the original style...back when they oiled ya up and you Wrestled naked. So...yeah, he's thrown down a lot that I haven't picked up. Edited February 12, 2023 by scourge165 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 10 minutes ago, scourge165 said: No, apparently I'm not. ' I DID catch that he's never actually wrestled and yet he calls Freestyle the "Women's style," in what's clearly a demeaning way because Greco was the original style...back when they oiled ya up and you Wrestled naked. So...yeah, he's thrown down a lot that I haven't picked up. i just would like to point out that you are not very good at this... there is little point in continuing... so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Luchador Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 On 2/10/2023 at 5:10 PM, jross said: I wrestled at two freestyle tournaments in Australia '99 but it was closer to the events seen on an August Wesley resume. How do you view wrestling in Australia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jross Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 39 minutes ago, scourge165 said: No, apparently I'm not. ' I DID catch that he's never actually wrestled and yet he calls Freestyle the "Women's style," in what's clearly a demeaning way because Greco was the original style...back when they oiled ya up and you Wrestled naked. So...yeah, he's thrown down a lot that I haven't picked up. I had to laugh at referring to freestyle as the women's style. I've wrestled folk and free but not Greco. I wasn't exposed in my youth and hadn't been too impressed with what I'd seen in snippets. I really watched it on-site at a World Team trials. The athletes had freakish upper bodies. There were choke outs, knock outs, incredible slams, and technique. It was war. There was also some high-energy skinny kid (peak) that outperformed. The sport should be much more appreciated than it is. Since I haven't trained Greco, my opinion must not count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 "women's wrestling" is a nod to our scandinavian brothers who have absolutely no patience for men wrestling freestyle... it is used tounge'n'cheek as a means of profiling... anyone who gets salty after hearing/reading have just outed themselves and should be placed in the pile to the left... and the pure fact that greco is just more masculine... but... i get most will never be gifted the ability to understand... it no longer irks me in any way or fashion... i am pretty proud of my own personal growth in that regard... you are all very welcome!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jross Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 1 hour ago, El Luchador said: How do you view wrestling in Australia? Australia freestyle has had significantly less success than American Greco. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gimpeltf Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 13 minutes ago, jross said: Australia freestyle has had significantly less success than American Greco. Maybe a spiral ride works in the other direction! 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D3 for LU Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 2 hours ago, gimpeltf said: Maybe a spiral ride works in the other direction! Yes... the Coriolis Effect is alive and well! D3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scourge165 Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 5 hours ago, jross said: I had to laugh at referring to freestyle as the women's style. I've wrestled folk and free but not Greco. I wasn't exposed in my youth and hadn't been too impressed with what I'd seen in snippets. I really watched it on-site at a World Team trials. The athletes had freakish upper bodies. There were choke outs, knock outs, incredible slams, and technique. It was war. There was also some high-energy skinny kid (peak) that outperformed. The sport should be much more appreciated than it is. Since I haven't trained Greco, my opinion must not count. No...you don't need to have Wrestled Greco to have an opinion. I would expect you to have ACTUALLY at SOME level Wrestled if you're going to have strong opinions on what style is "masculine" and which is "women's wrestling." That's...just asinine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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