mspart Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 Yep, I've seen this too. They just want to do takedowns. mspart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Parrish Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 16 minutes ago, LJB said: last season a point of emphasis for refs (as per USAW) was that in greco passivity and chosen par terre situation there would be 25-30 seconds given for par terre work... they earned it they should get it was the thinking... that was not what happened internationally for whatever reason... regardless... the reality is if you are just laying on top of someone and not even attempting a legitimate exposure at all (pretty much all of par terre outside of greco) then there is little point allowing that poor wrestling to continue... I completely agree. Why waste the match clock. When top has a leg in and is working a power half and the ref calls them up... annoying. Or you're got the lace hooked up and move down to extend bottom out... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Parrish Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, LJB said: once or twice a year the guys will do one practice session with the greco guys and it is always equal parts laughable and embarrassing how even basic par terre technique is lost on them... Who would you consider an excellent par terre coach? Having a good mixed move top game could be a game changer in women's wrestling. Edited January 26, 2023 by Mike Parrish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 19 minutes ago, Mike Parrish said: Who would you consider an excellent par terre coach? Having a good mixed move top game could be a game changer in women's wrestling. seriously, i can not in good faith point to any senior "free" coach that puts near enough emphasis on par terre... and that is based purely on how their athletes wrestle... i can say at age group there are 3 club guys that show good par terre technique... luke morris at black fox... terry pack at LOG... zach dominguez at MWC... clearly i could point to any number of greco guys that have solid technique to show, but, you better really want to learn a gut because that is not fun to practice... and if you don't do it everyday then you ribs will not be able to withstand even a light greco go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crotalus Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 So if our greco guys are so great at par terre, why are our greco guys so bad at greco? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 Just now, Crotalus said: So if our greco guys are so great at par terre, why are our greco guys so bad at greco? really? this is your post? you want to rethink it for a minute? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crotalus Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 2 minutes ago, LJB said: you want to rethink it for a minute? Nope. But keep on bashing the "women's style" while our greco program is a joke. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 Just now, Crotalus said: Nope. But keep on bashing the "women's style" while our greco program is a joke. i do not "bash" the women's style as much as i just do not respect it as much as real wrestling... it just is not representative of what wrestling started as thousands of years ago... that does not mean i do not recognize freestyle as a top 10 important athletic pursuit... but... it just is not as representative of what we are simulating as proper greco... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Energy Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 LJB is the perfect rep for Greco. Converting fans to the boring style left and right. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forkemaz Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 On 1/25/2023 at 7:04 PM, LJB said: i do not "bash" the women's style as much as i just do not respect it as much as real wrestling... it just is not representative of what wrestling started as thousands of years ago... that does not mean i do not recognize freestyle as a top 10 important athletic pursuit... but... it just is not as representative of what we are simulating as proper greco... You yourself have never wrestled correct? Just your sons? You should stop running your mouth about what's real wrestling. Or at least be respectful considering your sport is an after thought, the least watched of any of the 3 styles and without the other two it would die in America. So just maybe... be grateful the better styles are here and stop trying so hard to prove Greco-Roman is the best. It's not. Folkstyle Sumo Greco-Roman Freestyle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPhillips Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 2 hours ago, forkemaz said: stop trying so hard to prove Greco-Roman is the best. It's the toughest for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 4 minutes ago, MPhillips said: It's the toughest for sure. don't waste any effort... flapjack has been grinding on that axe for a minute... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 On 1/25/2023 at 7:47 PM, Mike Parrish said: Who would you consider an excellent par terre coach? Having a good mixed move top game could be a game changer in women's wrestling. Our freestyle team seemed to be solid in par terre during Bruce Burnett's tenure as National Freestyle Coach. Of course, Dave Schultz was likely also a big part of this. Some standouts, just from '95-'96: Zeke: Developed a leg lace that enabled him to beat Jordanov in Bulgaria Cross: Nasty on top, particularly with high gut Saunders: if he was able to get a chance on top, he often made things happen Schultz: mean and nasty on top Baumgartner: solid all around in par terre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 one pt takedown at the time might explain why the US actually felt it necessary to work on the position... now we have athletes starting clubs and telling their kids to just folk wrestle overseas... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jross Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 On 1/25/2023 at 5:09 PM, Mike Parrish said: One of the things that bothers me about the women's freestyle is that the amount of time you get on top (with some refs) is so short that you really don't have time to set much up. Our high school girls wrestle the boy's style. An ex-world team member has no interest in teaching the man's style or the women's style in Kansas. There isn't enough local interest to be profitable. He says to focus on boy's style to get local success. Focus on neutral. The top man par terre skills will be learned in college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 6 minutes ago, jross said: Our high school girls wrestle the boy's style. An ex-world team member has no interest in teaching the man's style or the women's style in Kansas. There isn't enough local interest to be profitable. He says to focus on boy's style to get local success. Focus on neutral. The top man par terre skills will be learned in college. i will never understand why they sanction girls high school wrestling and then force them to wrestle a style they will never wrestle again... makes no sense to me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPhillips Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 2 hours ago, jross said: He says to focus on boy's style to get local success. Focus on neutral. The top man par terre skills will be learned in college. Sound coaching philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gimpeltf Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 2 hours ago, LJB said: i will never understand why they sanction girls high school wrestling and then force them to wrestle a style they will never wrestle again... makes no sense to me.. Not enough coaches and refs that want to do it freestyle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 Sounds like an easy excuse… every state has a USAW presence… we went through the same silliness in CO… Jingoism… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gimpeltf Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 9 minutes ago, LJB said: Sounds like an easy excuse… every state has a USAW presence… we went through the same silliness in CO… Jingoism… It's easy because it's true. Most HS coaches and refs don't belong to USAW. And how many of the USAW in each state are teachers/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJB Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 It’s a hurdle is you want to make it one.. (you is hypothetical) Every state runs USA tourneys… Its all there in place… just would take more actual effort than just agreeing to it and patting yourself on the back… so much wasted time for these girls learning how not to wrestle… whatever… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mspart Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 Same could be said for the boys. They learn how to control guys in folk style. I remember seeing Cael wrestling Sajidov in 2003 and Sajidov was on bottom and tried to get away and Cael just reeled him back in. I'm not sure classically trained FS wrestlers would have faired so well. Granted, there is not much need for this skill in freestyle but I believe that folkstyle is a better style for learning control. I could be wrong, and this is an ages long argument. But there's my $0.02. mspart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponzi Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 On 1/24/2023 at 1:07 PM, mspart said: He came back from 10-2? Gotta ask what Nashon was doing. I have not seen the match. That is an incredible recovery. I don't particularly like DeSanto but that is perserverance which is something to admire. mspart Too bad this thread got hijacked, but back to Nahshon for a second. This might be dumb to say about an NCAA champ, but it never seemed to me like he was fanatically interested in wrestling. Thus I am surprised he is on the freestyle circuit. Can he make a living doing it? A good living? Against ADS, he had 5 takedowns or maybe 4, including 2 easy ones right off the whistle. How do you lose while getting 5 takedowns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jross Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 2 hours ago, Ponzi said: Too bad this thread got hijacked, but back to Nahshon for a second. This might be dumb to say about an NCAA champ, but it never seemed to me like he was fanatically interested in wrestling. Thus I am surprised he is on the freestyle circuit. Can he make a living doing it? A good living? Against ADS, he had 5 takedowns or maybe 4, including 2 easy ones right off the whistle. How do you lose while getting 5 takedowns? Because he wrestles like a Bugatti Chiron Pur Sport. 1500-hp quad-turbo 8.0-liter W-16 engine, seven-speed dual-clutch automatic transmission, and runs out of gas in minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mspart Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 Yeah, Nashon took care of ADS at will really. But ADS hung in there and didn't let it get to a Tech fall and ended up winning. That was completely a loss of concentration on Nashon's part. You can be fatigued and keep focus. Or you can be fatigued and lose focus. I think he allowed the latter to happen. That said, kudos to ADS for persevering and taking care of business. mspart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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