If only he'd shoot more ... then what?

[Ponzi]

You hear it from coaches time and again about a guy who just lost or even a guy who just won: He's so good, he just needs to get after it more, he just needs to be more aggressive, he just a bit more confidence in his offense, we just wanna see him shoot more. It begs the question. Is there any wrestler this side of Spencer Lee who shoots enough? Do the reluctant shooters know something that the coaches don't know? Of the many who do not shoot enough, why?

Is there any data one whether guys who shoot more get more takedowns or do bad things happen when you shoot too much (or even just enough)?

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

[ionel]

Ponzi-pastry   

Pastry-ponzi  

[Wrestleknownothing]

40 minutes ago, Ponzi said:

You hear it from coaches time and again about a guy who just lost or even a guy who just won: He's so good, he just needs to get after it more, he just needs to be more aggressive, he just a bit more confidence in his offense, we just wanna see him shoot more. It begs the question. Is there any wrestler this side of Spencer Lee who shoots enough? Do the reluctant shooters know something that the coaches don't know? Of the many who do not shoot enough, why?

Is there any data one whether guys who shoot more get more takedowns or do bad things happen when you shoot too much (or even just enough)?

There was a guy on BWI who used to track this stuff. I think he went by LemonPie. Not sure if it was just PSU wrestlers or more extensive. Also not sure if he still does it.

[Wrestleknownothing]

I also remember a lot of complaints on BWI about Nick Lee shooting too much freshman and sophmore year.

[Ponzi]

38 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

That's a basketball expression and if you try to translate it to wrestling, you maybe get the opposite lesson. No one thinks that shooting as often as possible is wining basketball. The key is to get good shots. What constitutes a good shot is different for different guys. But everybody needs to shoot at the right time, not the wrong time.

[Lipdrag]

18 minutes ago, Ponzi said:

No one thinks that shooting as often as possible is winning basketball.

Agreed.  But neither does anyone think that dribbling at half court will ever win a game that is tied or one you are losing either.  No one thinks taking bad and stupid shots is a winning strategy in either sport.  Endless tie ups without making a serious attempt "to take it to the rim" is losing basketball and at best low AA wrestling but never championship wrestling.  Maybe the "shoot more" statement is not exacting enough.  Maybe it should read "If only he'd work hard enough to set up properly and take more good shots . . . ". 

 

I submit that the "work hard enough . . . " portion of the sentiment is sufficiently implied when one is exclaiming in an exasperated manner after another 1 point loss which ends up with both wrestlers leaning on each other in a tie up.

[Plasmodium]

We should observe the behavior of the successful ones and emulate that.  What do they in the Caucasus?  I think they take high percentage shots and wrestle disciplined matches.

[Ponzi]

1 hour ago, Lipdrag said:

Agreed.  But neither does anyone think that dribbling at half court will ever win a game that is tied or one you are losing either.  No one thinks taking bad and stupid shots is a winning strategy in either sport.  Endless tie ups without making a serious attempt "to take it to the rim" is losing basketball and at best low AA wrestling but never championship wrestling.  Maybe the "shoot more" statement is not exacting enough.  Maybe it should read "If only he'd work hard enough to set up properly and take more good shots . . . ". 

 

I submit that the "work hard enough . . . " portion of the sentiment is sufficiently implied when one is exclaiming in an exasperated manner after another 1 point loss which ends up with both wrestlers leaning on each other in a tie up.

If that's what they mean, it's very different from what they actually say.

Maybe they mean not they should shoot more, but that they should shoot more successfully. If so, it's very good advice.

[82bordeaux]

The more equally matched the opponent, the more selective the shots smart wrestlers take.

It is easy to shoot more if your opponent is outclassed.

If your opponent is great defensively or a good scrambler, you only take shots you think you can finish cleanly.

 

[Eagle26]

You hear it from coaches time and again about a guy who just lost or even a guy who just won: He's so good, he just needs to get after it more, he just needs to be more aggressive, he just a bit more confidence in his offense, we just wanna see him shoot more.

I think you are pretty accurate with what you hear coaches say with one small exception. I think the last line should be “we just wanna see him get to his shots more”. I think this subtle difference makes all the difference in the world. Wrestling more aggressively being more confident, and not being afraid to pull the trigger on a shot is almost always better, but it doesn’t always mean a higher number of shots. It may mean more aggressive hand fighting, more chain wrestling, and zero hesitation when the shot finally opens up. This is what the coaches want to see

[manatree]

Depends on the wrestler and the opponent. Especially if you’re Vince Turk.