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This explains a lot (lack of stall calls on top)


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11 hours ago, Dark Energy said:

Well, that sucks.  Parallel ride is fine it seems.  Double boots and just drive down to mat is fine.  
 

Seriously, WTF?  

Yeah, the Daton Fix double boot stall ride is pretty much the ultimate ride according to that.

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What stands out to me more are the "general purpose stalling rules" mentioned first.  It doesn't seem like those are applied effectively nor correctly... Considered stalling when "Attempting to avoid wrestling" (5.7.1). "Offensive and defensive wrestlers shall make an attempt to sustain active wrestling and remain in the competition circle" (5.7.11).  "Action is to be maintained throughout the match by wrestlers staying near the center of the mat and wrestling aggressively in all positions."

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Stalling on top guy should be "not trying to score or improve their position".   Not trying for the fall should be in the list of stalling.   Improving your position is getting the bottom guy to his back.   From there it is to pin.  This does not incentivize the top wrestler to do anything other than stay in the middle and STALL. 

mspart

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2 hours ago, mspart said:

Stalling on top guy should be "not trying to score or improve their position".   Not trying for the fall should be in the list of stalling.   Improving your position is getting the bottom guy to his back.   From there it is to pin.  This does not incentivize the top wrestler to do anything other than stay in the middle and STALL. 

mspart

The problem is that technically the top guy is trying to score by securing riding time. So therefore riding is not stalling. I hate it too, but apparently we need a rule change to address it.

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5 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:

The problem is that technically the top guy is trying to score by securing riding time. So therefore riding is not stalling. I hate it too, but apparently we need a rule change to address it.

Correct.  High school rules say offensive wrestler must work for a fall, so seems pretty simple to add it to college

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1 hour ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

If the defensive wrestler is rewarded for escaping why shouldn't the offensive wrestler be allowed to prevent him from escaping? It seems symmetrical.

Because it's boring. 🙂

 

I am a huge fan of a real hammer in the top position. The claw ride and thigh pry frustrate me to no end. The encouragement to ride through increased points for a turn and the riding time point were welcomed by me but more is needed to fix the unintended consequence of more stalling on top.

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1 hour ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

If the defensive wrestler is rewarded for escaping why shouldn't the offensive wrestler be allowed to prevent him from escaping? It seems symmetrical.

If they are in the process of escaping sure, but why is the defensive wrestler required to try to escape but the offensive wrestler apparently doesn’t have to do anything except be “active”?

Guess we can add this to the sequel to Stall Camp:  

“I try not to think of it as stalling, I think of it as ‘escape prevention.’”

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Stalling is problematic all the way around.  It’s boring to watch, it doesn’t get called consistently, and the idea of a referee awarding unearned points is bad.  If they’re not going to call stalling on the top wrestler- okay, but don’t award points to a superior top wrestler because an inferior wrestler can’t manage to escape without exposing himself to a turning predicament.  I suggest that at a second stalling call, stop the match and restart it with the non-stalling wrestler having choice of starting position; limited to bottom or neutral if he was on top when stalling was called.  That’s my suggestion, anyway. 

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1 hour ago, Offthemat said:

Stalling is problematic all the way around.  It’s boring to watch, it doesn’t get called consistently, and the idea of a referee awarding unearned points is bad.  If they’re not going to call stalling on the top wrestler- okay, but don’t award points to a superior top wrestler because an inferior wrestler can’t manage to escape without exposing himself to a turning predicament.  I suggest that at a second stalling call, stop the match and restart it with the non-stalling wrestler having choice of starting position; limited to bottom or neutral if he was on top when stalling was called.  That’s my suggestion, anyway. 

It is so much better than it was 15/20 years ago.

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Me and some friends played golf at Whistling Straits. That place has a lot of sand traps. One of my friends complains to the head pro "There are too many sand traps on this blasted golf course!". Head pro says back, "If you don't like them then why did you hit the ball there?".

If you don't like your plight on bottom, then why'd you let your opponent take you down? 

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On 1/11/2023 at 9:46 PM, ionel said:

It is so much better than it was 15/20 years ago.

It’s purpose was to promote more action, making the sport more interesting and preventing inaction as a strategy.  A lot of people find it distasteful for a ref to award points.  With a restart in a different position the action is likely to pick up and the wrestlers still have to score their own points, just like penalties in other sports. 

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