Has Levi Haines won the spot for PSU

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 hour ago, MadMardigain said:

Pretty sure he threw away his shot at bring a starter. 

[bnwtwg]

On 12/27/2022 at 3:26 PM, Le duke said:

 

With Barr, Sealey, Ryder and Kasak coming in, and Starocci/Brooks having at least one more year left after this one, someone is going to be taking a GS/OTC + RS before cracking the lineup. Maybe several people.

Or someone is going to be riding the bench while using a year of eligibility.


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Ask Michael Beard and the Nevills family how taking a ___shirt for the team plays out. Most cutthroat room in the country by design.

[scourge165]

On 12/29/2022 at 8:48 PM, bnwtwg said:

Ask Michael Beard and the Nevills family how taking a ___shirt for the team plays out. Most cutthroat room in the country by design.

Yeah, I wonder if they could have let Beard wrestle off for the spot or if it was kinda promised to Dean?

Not that I think those two losses Dean suffered mean...much(particularly the first as that was SO close to not being 2...though it was the right call) but Beard was the younger guy, he was more suited for that weight, longer. Just seemed like the ROI was higher on Beard than Dean. Also feels like it'd be pretty hard to tell a defending NC he's not gonna start for you. 

 

AS for Haines, I said last year when I watched him Wrestle, he'd be the '57LB champ this year. It was obvious his learning curve is not just steep, it was...straight up. 

Now I guess I'll see if I was right or not. Maybe I'm being influenced too much by Hall...but I don't think so.

[CementMixer]

Inside information says Haines will go

All in...

[Antitroll2828]

8 hours ago, scourge165 said:

Yeah, I wonder if they could have let Beard wrestle off for the spot or if it was kinda promised to Dean?

Not that I think those two losses Dean suffered mean...much(particularly the first as that was SO close to not being 2...though it was the right call) but Beard was the younger guy, he was more suited for that weight, longer. Just seemed like the ROI was higher on Beard than Dean. Also feels like it'd be pretty hard to tell a defending NC he's not gonna start for you. 

 

AS for Haines, I said last year when I watched him Wrestle, he'd be the '57LB champ this year. It was obvious his learning curve is not just steep, it was...straight up. 

Now I guess I'll see if I was right or not. Maybe I'm being influenced too much by Hall...but I don't think so.

Beard and dean wrestled twice last season 

[Antitroll2828]

8 hours ago, scourge165 said:

Yeah, I wonder if they could have let Beard wrestle off for the spot or if it was kinda promised to Dean?

Not that I think those two losses Dean suffered mean...much(particularly the first as that was SO close to not being 2...though it was the right call) but Beard was the younger guy, he was more suited for that weight, longer. Just seemed like the ROI was higher on Beard than Dean. Also feels like it'd be pretty hard to tell a defending NC he's not gonna start for you. 

 

AS for Haines, I said last year when I watched him Wrestle, he'd be the '57LB champ this year. It was obvious his learning curve is not just steep, it was...straight up. 

Now I guess I'll see if I was right or not. Maybe I'm being influenced too much by Hall...but I don't think so.

Beard also got a chance against Schultz and completely gassed and gave up 4 stalling points and lost 

[Le duke]

Yeah, I wonder if they could have let Beard wrestle off for the spot or if it was kinda promised to Dean?
Not that I think those two losses Dean suffered mean...much(particularly the first as that was SO close to not being 2...though it was the right call) but Beard was the younger guy, he was more suited for that weight, longer. Just seemed like the ROI was higher on Beard than Dean. Also feels like it'd be pretty hard to tell a defending NC he's not gonna start for you. 
 
AS for Haines, I said last year when I watched him Wrestle, he'd be the '57LB champ this year. It was obvious his learning curve is not just steep, it was...straight up. 
Now I guess I'll see if I was right or not. Maybe I'm being influenced too much by Hall...but I don't think so.

Dean beat Beard in a wrestle-off.

Also, I’d bet a good amount of money that Dean was sick when he lost to Laird and Beard. Watch Dean gas, hard, against Beard of all people, then beat Bastida a couple weeks later. He looks like a completely different wrestler.


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[ionel]

48 minutes ago, CementMixer said:

Inside information says Haines will go

All in...

... straight from the mom? 

[MPhillips]

11 minutes ago, ionel said:

... straight from the mom? 

Pics?

[ionel]

6 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

Pics?

[scourge165]

8 hours ago, Le duke said:

Dean beat Beard in a wrestle-off.

Also, I’d bet a good amount of money that Dean was sick when he lost to Laird and Beard. Watch Dean gas, hard, against Beard of all people, then beat Bastida a couple weeks later. He looks like a completely different wrestler.


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Didn't Dean beat Beard on a last second TD like...was it 8-7 in their wrestle off? 9-8? It was a 1 TD match. I don't recall exactly, but it was an extremely competitive match. One was a Freshmen with 4 years left. So that was a year earlier. And Dean  The other had 2 years left. Keep Beard in that room, in the NLWC with the chance to Wrestle with Brooks, Snyder, Starroci, the best Wrestlers in the Country and I think you're going to get more from him in 4 years than Dean gives you in 2. Just an opinion, not meant as a slight against either Wrestler. Dean won an NCAA Title. 

And yes, I watched Dean Wrestle Laire and Beard. He wrestled two much bigger 97 pounders.  Laird is a very good Wrestler. He was one helluva HWT who competed with some very good Wrestlers and he's a BIG '97(as is Beard). Dean...more of an '84, but when you go onto a team with Aaron Brooks, you don't wrestle '84. 

On top of that, Beard starts out with clean TDs(should have had another). They wrestle the 1st period, Dean is desperate to get the riding time...taking multiple stalling calls to do so. He also gets about 2 minutes off when Beard's coaches challenge a locked hands. 

Dean's smart. He gets a TD in the 2nd, rides him out. 

But again, Beard gets to his feet and takes him down with clean TDs.

And again, Laird was bigger. So no, I don't think gassed because he was sick, I think he gassed because he's probably 3-4 inches shorter than the two, they've each as thick as him and Dean just ALWAYS Wrestles close matches. 

The Laird match came down to a SPLIT second where Dean's hand touches, but Dean had plenty of gas in the tank to go there after he got behind. 

 

And yes. He beat Bastida. It's not rare for elite Wrestlers to go back and forth. Bastida is also giving up a point going into every match. For the record, I didn't actually bring up Laird, you did. I simply said I thought they could get more out of Beard than Dean.  But if you want to bring up Bastida, he's a Cuban. He's a couple years into Wrestling Folkstyle while Dean is particularly savvy. 

So what?

So lets say Dean wins it each year. Beard takes...5th and a 3rd? That sound fair? Feels like he could easily win it, but...for the sake of argument. Beard has 2 more years left.

 

I'll reiterate. I think the ROI was higher on Beard than Dean. 

[scourge165]

10 hours ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Beard also got a chance against Schultz and completely gassed and gave up 4 stalling points and lost 

You mean kinda like how Dean lost to Beard himself(the stalling points, not the gassing).

That said, he didn't gas at all in the Schultz match. He didn't Wrestle smart. tried to keep him down rather than just cutting him loose, didn't move enough on the bottom. Clearly did not gas. 

He scored the only 2 TDs in that match. He DID give up stalling, not at all because he "gassed," but because he couldn't get out on the bottom in the 2nd. Got a warning in the first for not bringing him back to the mat. Then a stall call in the 2nd. Tried riding in the 2nd, again, stall call. Beard cut him making it 4-2 Schultz(2 escapes and 2 stalling). He then took him down again and they hit him with another stall because he didn't return him to the mat and then he cut him. 

Beard was attacking and looked fine at the end of the match. He was just wrestled a stupid match.

 

And this year, vs the ACTUAL person we're talking about, Dean, he beat him when Dean did the same thing and he beat him. 

[scourge165]

10 hours ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Beard and dean wrestled twice last season 

That's right...I remember hearing about the 1st. Not the 2nd though. 

Anyway, as I said, the "return on investment," we're talking about 4 years of varsity wrestling vs 2. 

[Antitroll2828]

7 hours ago, scourge165 said:

That's right...I remember hearing about the 1st. Not the 2nd though. 

Anyway, as I said, the "return on investment," we're talking about 4 years of varsity wrestling vs 2. 

Your entire argument is penn state should have turned away a 2x AA ,ncaa finalist who walked on with no recruitment and no scholarship money for beard, bc he has more eligibility? even though beard has never truely looked like a title contender and Dean literally beat him multiple times in wrestles off and then won an ncaa title …beard is in his 5th year out of high school and has placed 7th one time and has the same amount of loses as dean this year , heck the biggest win of his career is over Dean , a 2 pt win in his home gym in mid December in a match he had every reason to really get up for , plus there has been talk of brooks eventually moving up to 197 , which could happen next season so I doubt penn state is sweating beard leaving 

[scourge165]

9 hours ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Your entire argument is penn state should have turned away a 2x AA ,ncaa finalist who walked on with no recruitment and no scholarship money for beard, bc he has more eligibility? even though beard has never truely looked like a title contender and Dean literally beat him multiple times in wrestles off and then won an ncaa title …beard is in his 5th year out of high school and has placed 7th one time and has the same amount of loses as dean this year , heck the biggest win of his career is over Dean , a 2 pt win in his home gym in mid December in a match he had every reason to really get up for , plus there has been talk of brooks eventually moving up to 197 , which could happen next season so I doubt penn state is sweating beard leaving 

LOL...even though he "never truly looked like a title contender?" As a FRESHMEN he didn't look like one? And he was a whole 5 years out of HS.

So he pretty much followed the EXACT same route as Dean? A greyshirt, then RS, then Dean took an 8th, Beard took a 7th. 

Second, no, my argument was NEVER they should have "turned away a 2X AA." Read what I wrote. 

On 12/31/2022 at 7:00 AM, scourge165 said:

Just seemed like the ROI was higher on Beard than Dean. Also feels like it'd be pretty hard to tell a defending NC he's not gonna start for you. 

So...lets see if you can crack this riddle. Who was the returning National Champ TWO years ago at '97? Was it either of the two? Or was it Ferrari? So was I talking about not taking two years ago or was I talking about THIS year? 

And where did I say what PSU SHOULD have done? I simply stated I thought they'd get more out Beard than Dean. And Beard losing 8-7 with Dean getting a last second TD his 7th year out of HS(since now that's super important) is now more important than Beard ACTUALLY beating Dean? And doing so pretty solidly...taking him down repeatedly(what 4 TDs). And Beard just majored Trumble. Seems like he's doing just fine with his 3 years left. Oh...but the "talk of Brooks moving up." Awesome. 

 

So why are you so upset and whining over me saying I thought there was more ROI on Beard? When did all these imaginary standards come from? Beard's too far out of HS? Again, on the SAME pace as Dean. 

Lets see how they work out this year. We'll see if Dean is gifted a couple calls at a weight class above what he should be wrestling at...and then...well, it still won't matter and you'll still be hypersensitive about it.  

[Gus]

4 hours ago, scourge165 said:

LOL...even though he "never truly looked like a title contender?" As a FRESHMEN he didn't look like one? And he was a whole 5 years out of HS.

So he pretty much followed the EXACT same route as Dean? A greyshirt, then RS, then Dean took an 8th, Beard took a 7th. 

Second, no, my argument was NEVER they should have "turned away a 2X AA." Read what I wrote. 

So...lets see if you can crack this riddle. Who was the returning National Champ TWO years ago at '97? Was it either of the two? Or was it Ferrari? So was I talking about not taking two years ago or was I talking about THIS year? 

And where did I say what PSU SHOULD have done? I simply stated I thought they'd get more out Beard than Dean. And Beard losing 8-7 with Dean getting a last second TD his 7th year out of HS(since now that's super important) is now more important than Beard ACTUALLY beating Dean? And doing so pretty solidly...taking him down repeatedly(what 4 TDs). And Beard just majored Trumble. Seems like he's doing just fine with his 3 years left. Oh...but the "talk of Brooks moving up." Awesome. 

 

So why are you so upset and whining over me saying I thought there was more ROI on Beard? When did all these imaginary standards come from? Beard's too far out of HS? Again, on the SAME pace as Dean. 

Let’s see how they work out this year. We'll see if Dean is gifted a couple calls at a weight class above what he should be wrestling at...and then...well, it still won't matter and you'll still be hypersensitive about it.  

When looking at the Beard vs Dean argument the only fair way to consider  it is Deans 2 years plus whoever they recruit to succeed him for the next 2 years vs Beards 4 years. Knowing Penn States history with 197 I think they will be better suited following the route they have chosen. 

[scourge165]

29 minutes ago, Gus said:

When looking at the Beard vs Dean argument the only fair way to consider  it is Deans 2 years plus whoever they recruit to succeed him for the next 2 years vs Beards 4 years. Knowing Penn States history with 197 I think they will be better suited following the route they have chosen. 

Of course that's entirely possible. But I also think it's possible Beard finishes top 3-5 this year(better chance if he's at PSU of course) and possibly wins it or makes it to the finals and places ahead of Dean. Then I don't think it's a stretch to think he could win a title in the next year or two.

They're also going to have a bit of a crunch in those weight classes with a lot of talent coming in. Barr, Ryder, Fricchione. On top of what I believe will be 2 more years of Starocci and 1 more of Brooks after this year(I know Starr suggested he wouldn't go for 5...but it was immediately after saying it'd give him a chance to put himself above everyone else...and it would). Meanwhile, Haines who I already think will be the best Wrestler in his class may well grow into '65, Facundo into '74 and Kasak into '57.

 

I didn't say I thought it'd be the death knell for PSU...BUT I think the difference, particularly in the next couple years, '24-'25 D1, it could very well be the difference in a PSU Title and an OSU Title. And I also think it's...a little weak how SOME PSU fans are going out of their way to undermine Beard. Like he's not among the best in a wide open weight class that Dean won last year on a couple...generous calls. 

[Pinnacle]

Who has gone out of their way to undermine Beard like he's not among the best this year? 

[scourge165]

19 hours ago, Pinnacle said:

Who has gone out of their way to undermine Beard like he's not among the best this year? 

Really? I don't know. I thought the following statements were intended to do just that, but you read them and maybe you come to a different conclusion. 

I also didn't limit it to THIS year, I just made the statement in general, but...here are some of them. If you disagree, then we just see things differently. 

On 1/1/2023 at 10:16 AM, Antitroll2828 said:

even though beard has never truely looked like a title contender

 

On 1/1/2023 at 10:16 AM, Antitroll2828 said:

…beard is in his 5th year out of high school and has placed 7th one time and has the same amount of loses as dean this year , heck the biggest win of his career is over Dean , a 2 pt win in his home gym in mid December in a match he had every reason to really get up for

 

On 12/31/2022 at 3:31 PM, Antitroll2828 said:

Beard also got a chance against Schultz and completely gassed and gave up 4 stalling points and lost 

 

On 12/31/2022 at 3:47 PM, Le duke said:

Also, I’d bet a good amount of money that Dean was sick when he lost to Laird and Beard. Watch Dean gas, hard, against Beard of all people, then beat Bastida a couple weeks later. He looks like a completely different wrestler.

 

[Pinnacle]

3 hours ago, scourge165 said:

Really? I don't know. I thought the following statements were intended to do just that, but you read them and maybe you come to a different conclusion. 

I also didn't limit it to THIS year, I just made the statement in general, but...here are some of them. If you disagree, then we just see things differently. 

 

So it is hard for me to comment about things that may have been posted somewhere else and at some other time as if they are relevent to this conversation. 

As for the comments you do quote above, you should consider context. You are taking small snippets of larger posts and weaving a narrative of them that may be misleading. I am not even sure exactly what you are arguing for or against. It seems you are arguing that PSU should not have taken Max Dean. Is this right? What staff would have turned Max Dean away? Then, after Dean wins the wrestle off what staff would appoint Beard the starter after he lost the wrestle off to Dean? 

I get the overall point that 4 years of Beard may turn out better than 2 years of Dean, but even if that pans out it does not mean the staff at Penn State made a mistake of any kind. So far they have been correct. 

[scourge165]

16 hours ago, Pinnacle said:

So it is hard for me to comment about things that may have been posted somewhere else and at some other time as if they are relevent to this conversation. 

Didn't ask ya to.

16 hours ago, Pinnacle said:

As for the comments you do quote above, you should consider context.

I did. They were meant to disparage Beard...OBVIOUSLY. 

17 hours ago, Pinnacle said:

You are taking small snippets of larger posts and weaving a narrative of them that may be misleading. I am not even sure exactly what you are arguing for or against. It seems you are arguing that PSU should not have taken Max Dean. Is this right? What staff would have turned Max Dean away? Then, after Dean wins the wrestle off what staff would appoint Beard the starter after he lost the wrestle off to Dean? 

You think I'm skewing the narrative? Huh...that's an argument.

And no, my position isn't that they shouldn't have taken Dean. It was a simple observation that has the PSU Faithful a bit sensitive. I literally said in the above posts I never suggested or inferred they should have turned him away(second time it was worded in the exact same manner and second time I responded...so no secret you didn't see them trashing Beard since...you're clearly not reading the posts real closely. 

And of COURSE I never said they should "appoint" Beard the starter after he lost the Wrestle off to Dean. I was asking if Beard would have gotten this year...AGAIN...this is shit I've already laid out. 

 

On 12/31/2022 at 7:00 AM, scourge165 said:

Also feels like it'd be pretty hard to tell a defending NC he's not gonna start for you. 

No...was Dean a defending National Champ prior to THIS YEAR?

No. So I was saying I wonder if there was even the opportunity for Beard THIS year to win the spot.

 

Christ...I also said I thought Haines could win it at '57 this year and that I understand why they'd go with Dean, but...even just speculating about a move gets you Nittany Lion fans all worked into a lather. 

[MPhillips]

He has against WI.

[Le duke]

Haines just put it on Model.


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[MPhillips]

Just now, Le duke said:

Haines just put it on Model.
 

You're excited tonight.

[Le duke]

You're excited tonight.

It likely answered the question.

I’m guessing he goes on the Zain plan. Maybe a low AA this year, RS, then up to 165.


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