Jimmy Cinnabon Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 125: Will it be Lilledahl or Braeden Davis? Is Robbie Howard totally done? 133: Nagao just suffered what appeared to be a serious shoulder injury. There is buzz about Davis moving up to 133. 141: BB 149: SVN; apparently Kasak is too big now for 149 157: Lots of questions here. Kasak, Sealey or PJ Duke? Apparently Haines is getting too big? 165: Mesenbrink (Haines RS?) 174: Facundo or Ryder? 184: Barr 197: Starocci / Cochran / Mirasola Hwt: Kerkvliet My preferred lineup 125: Lilledahl 133: Davis 141: BB 149: SVN 157: Mesenbrink 165: Haines 174: Ryder 184: Barr 197: Starocci HWT: Kerkvliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhs67 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 Kasak isn't too big for 149 after having started the season at 141lbs. He just knows that SVN is 'that guy' at 149lbs. Duke is still in high school. He will still be in high school next year, too. Cochran might be alive for the 184lb spot. He was at 86 KG this last weekend and made the finals before defaulting out. I think 125/133 is Davis/Lilledahl in some order and I don't really care which order at this point. Unfortunately, for Nagao, he peaked for two tournaments and he hasn't been able to peak as high since. "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Cinnabon Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 4 minutes ago, nhs67 said: Kasak isn't too big for 149 after having started the season at 141lbs. He just knows that SVN is 'that guy' at 149lbs. Duke is still in high school. He will still be in high school next year, too. Cochran might be alive for the 184lb spot. He was at 86 KG this last weekend and made the finals before defaulting out. I think 125/133 is Davis/Lilledahl in some order and I don't really care which order at this point. Unfortunately, for Nagao, he peaked for two tournaments and he hasn't been able to peak as high since. Kasak missed weight his weekend at 70kg. This means he couldn't get under 154 pounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhs67 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 Just now, Jimmy Cinnabon said: Kasak missed weight his weekend at 70kg. This means he couldn't get under 154 pounds. There is more behind the scenes that you are ignoring. It was a botched cut for reasons that you can look for elsewhere, not him being too big. "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 1 minute ago, nhs67 said: There is more behind the scenes that you are ignoring. It was a botched cut for reasons that you can look for elsewhere, not him being too big. He is also a young man that is growing. It is not unreasonable to assume that he is growing out of 149 as evidenced by his failure to make 154 (70kg). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truzzcat Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 29 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said: 125: Will it be Lilledahl or Braeden Davis? Is Robbie Howard totally done? 133: Nagao just suffered what appeared to be a serious shoulder injury. There is buzz about Davis moving up to 133. 141: BB 149: SVN; apparently Kasak is too big now for 149 157: Lots of questions here. Kasak, Sealey or PJ Duke? Apparently Haines is getting too big? 165: Mesenbrink (Haines RS?) 174: Facundo or Ryder? 184: Barr 197: Starocci / Cochran / Mirasola Hwt: Kerkvliet My preferred lineup 125: Lilledahl 133: Davis 141: BB 149: SVN 157: Mesenbrink 165: Haines 174: Ryder 184: Barr 197: Starocci HWT: Kerkvliet I think Facundo is still going to be better than ryder for the time being, both are great options but facundo looked like that dude at trials. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 20 minutes ago, nhs67 said: Cochran might be alive for the 184lb spot. He was at 86 KG this last weekend and made the finals before defaulting out. Was surprised and impressed to see he teched Pento and beat DJ Washington this weekend. Agree this could be a tight one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhs67 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 7 minutes ago, BAC said: Was surprised and impressed to see he teched Pento and beat DJ Washington this weekend. Agree this could be a tight one. I would take that Pinto victory with a grain of salt. I believe he had a botched cut to 79 KG. If he had lingering effects from that, he wasn't going to do well against the 86 KG contenders. At least, not as well as he should have. "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhs67 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 25 minutes ago, Gus said: He is also a young man that is growing. It is not unreasonable to assume that he is growing out of 149 as evidenced by his failure to make 154 (70kg). No, I get that. There has been a slew of discussion on this on other BBS. Many folks better in the know than us, and especially ConBon, have pointed towards other reasons and not growth. He was ~141lbs what... five months ago? He didn't suddenly gain 15lbs of muscle. "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Cinnabon Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 15 minutes ago, nhs67 said: I would take that Pinto victory with a grain of salt. I believe he had a botched cut to 79 KG. If he had lingering effects from that, he wasn't going to do well against the 86 KG contenders. At least, not as well as he should have. Where are you getting your information on all of these "botched cuts"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truzzcat Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 14 minutes ago, nhs67 said: No, I get that. There has been a slew of discussion on this on other BBS. Many folks better in the know than us, and especially ConBon, have pointed towards other reasons and not growth. He was ~141lbs what... five months ago? He didn't suddenly gain 15lbs of muscle. my guess is he thought he would get the weight off easier than he did or he was sick or something out of his control. He's not a particularly huge kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPhillips Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 Just now, Jimmy Cinnabon said: Where are you getting your information on all of these "botched cuts"? 15 minutes ago, nhs67 said: There has been a slew of discussion on this on other BBS. Many folks better in the know than us, and especially ConBon, have pointed towards other reasons and not growth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truzzcat Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 1 minute ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said: Where are you getting your information on all of these "botched cuts"? Probably just an assumption because Pinto was entered at 79 but ended up going 86. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 16 minutes ago, nhs67 said: I would take that Pinto victory with a grain of salt. I believe he had a botched cut to 79 KG. If he had lingering effects from that, he wasn't going to do well against the 86 KG contenders. At least, not as well as he should have. I don't really disagree... I watched the match yesterday, and didn't think it was too predictive for folk. Pinto was doing a lot of summer-wrestling Pinto things, e.g. lots of upper-body stuff, which Cochran effectively countered. But I don't think that should take away from Cochran's performance either. Fishback, Brayden Thompson and Reece Heller were also in the bracket and he finished ahead of all of them, including beating Heller in the semis who took 3rd. Fold in his win over Slavikouski this past season up at HWT, and Cochran looks legit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 1 hour ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said: My preferred lineup 125: Lilledahl 133: Davis 141: BB 149: SVN 157: A Ferrari 165: Haines 174: A(nother) Ferrari 184: Barr 197: AJ Ferrari HWT: Kerkvliet ftfy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rassling Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 1 hour ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said: 125: Will it be Lilledahl or Braeden Davis? Is Robbie Howard totally done? 133: Nagao just suffered what appeared to be a serious shoulder injury. There is buzz about Davis moving up to 133. 141: BB 149: SVN; apparently Kasak is too big now for 149 157: Lots of questions here. Kasak, Sealey or PJ Duke? Apparently Haines is getting too big? 165: Mesenbrink (Haines RS?) 174: Facundo or Ryder? 184: Barr 197: Starocci / Cochran / Mirasola Hwt: Kerkvliet My preferred lineup 125: Lilledahl 133: Davis 141: BB 149: SVN 157: Mesenbrink 165: Haines 174: Ryder 184: Barr 197: Starocci HWT: Kerkvliet Killa line up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 50 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said: Where are you getting your information on all of these "botched cuts"? I will say this, although they apparently have a lot of "fun," information coming out of state college in recent years seems to indicate a fairly high level of weight cutting. Maybe not OSU level, but more than I would have thought a couple years ago. I'm not saying that it is good or bad, just that it is a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinnacle Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 2 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said: I will say this, although they apparently have a lot of "fun," information coming out of state college in recent years seems to indicate a fairly high level of weight cutting. Maybe not OSU level, but more than I would have thought a couple years ago. I'm not saying that it is good or bad, just that it is a thing. High level of weight cutting at Penn State? Not from what I can tell. Keep in mind what we are talking about here, a record setting squad where the only two guys who started for them this year who ever had wrestled at a higher weight were Beau Bartlett and Bernie Truax. Bartlett spent time as a pudgy 149 and is now an NCAA finalist at 141 and Bernie Truax who while he wrestled one year at 197, he also wrestled at 149, 165, 174 and 184 where he competed at Penn State. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 5 minutes ago, Pinnacle said: High level of weight cutting at Penn State? Not from what I can tell. Keep in mind what we are talking about here, a record setting squad where the only two guys who started for them this year who ever had wrestled at a higher weight were Beau Bartlett and Bernie Truax. Bartlett spent time as a pudgy 149 and is now an NCAA finalist at 141 and Bernie Truax who while he wrestled one year at 197, he also wrestled at 149, 165, 174 and 184 where he competed at Penn State. Davis, Haines, Starrocci here all huge at their weight classes and had to be pulling a ton of weight. Beau Bartlett is a good sized 141 pounder. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Pinnacle said: High level of weight cutting at Penn State? Not from what I can tell. Keep in mind what we are talking about here, a record setting squad where the only two guys who started for them this year who ever had wrestled at a higher weight were Beau Bartlett and Bernie Truax. Bartlett spent time as a pudgy 149 and is now an NCAA finalist at 141 and Bernie Truax who while he wrestled one year at 197, he also wrestled at 149, 165, 174 and 184 where he competed at Penn State. It's not that they were dropping last year. They have a history of not being able to maintain their weights. And before you say "Cael is letting them grow; that is smart and fun, " keep in mind the repeated admissions and rumors about PSU guys having trouble making weight. - DT is on the record saying he was cutting a ton of weight in college and certainly had disordered eating. - 133 lb RBY admitted to having to lose 10+ lbs daily at NCAA tournaments after getting up to mid 140s each night. - 184 was very tough for Brooks and apparently 86 kg is brutal. I think 197 wasn't super easy for him. - Starocci never wants to go 174 again. Looked like a decent sized 86 kg and plans on 197. - Kasak couldn't make 154 over the weekend and apparently 149 was tougher as the season went on. - Davis had a tough cut to 125, allegedly. - For two years we have heard that 157 was a tough cut for Levi. Took him a bit to get into his groove this year. Supposedly going up a weight or two. I know that weight cutting happens everywhere. I just don't hear this much of this type of stuff outside of OSU. It seems like guys are going up in weight because the cut is miserable. Yes, it is a fantastic program and they are well-coached great wrestlers. Whatever they are doing works. I just wouldn't have associated the program with "tough cuts" until relatively recently. Edited June 3 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 8 minutes ago, Gus said: Davis, Haines, Starrocci here all huge at their weight classes and had to be pulling a ton of weight. Beau Bartlett is a good sized 141 pounder. Keep in mind many (not all) of the PSU faithful are some of the thinnest skinned members of the forum. This level of success seems to have built some sensitivity. We are simply stating facts. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 26 minutes ago, Pinnacle said: High level of weight cutting at Penn State? Not from what I can tell. Keep in mind what we are talking about here, a record setting squad where the only two guys who started for them this year who ever had wrestled at a higher weight were Beau Bartlett and Bernie Truax. Bartlett spent time as a pudgy 149 and is now an NCAA finalist at 141 and Bernie Truax who while he wrestled one year at 197, he also wrestled at 149, 165, 174 and 184 where he competed at Penn State. You can add Max Dean to that list too. He was forced to go up to 197 because he could not beat Aaron Brooks, just like Truax (and Bartlett with Nick Lee). 1 Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinnacle Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 10 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said: Keep in mind many (not all) of the PSU faithful are some of the thinnest skinned members of the forum. This level of success seems to have built some sensitivity. We are simply stating facts. So "information coming out of state college" now is bonafide "facts". I thought it was de facto rumor mill, regardless of how big any wrestler appears to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinnacle Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 22 minutes ago, Gus said: Davis, Haines, Starrocci here all huge at their weight classes and had to be pulling a ton of weight. Beau Bartlett is a good sized 141 pounder. Let's go one at a time here. 125 PSU tried Steen. Did not work out. They tried Robert Howard who appeared to still be suffering from past shoulder problems. Did not work out. Insert Davis and he ends up over performing at the weight. And before you say he was a 133 in high school, so what? Didn't Drake Ayala just compete at about 125 this past weekend. Maybe Iowa cuts at a high level too? 157 Haines NCAA Champ. Seems like the right call. Maybe he could have gone 165 and Messenbrink 157, but so what? Seems like both wrestled well at their weights. 174 Starocci. 4x Champ. Won on one leg, then went and wrestled 74 Kg at Trials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinnacle Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 21 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said: It's not that they were dropping last year. They have a history of not being able to maintain their weights. And before you say "Cael is letting them grow; that is smart and fun, " keep in mind the repeated admissions and rumors about PSU guys having trouble making weight. - DT is on the record saying he was cutting a ton of weight in college and certainly had disordered eating. - 133 lb RBY admitted to having to lose 10+ lbs daily at NCAA tournaments after getting up to mid 140s each night. - 184 was very tough for Brooks and apparently 86 kg is brutal. I think 197 wasn't super easy for him. - Starocci never wants to go 174 again. Looked like a decent sized 86 kg and plans on 197. - Kasak couldn't make 154 over the weekend and apparently 149 was tougher as the season went on. - Davis had a tough cut to 125, allegedly. - For two years we have heard that 157 was a tough cut for Levi. Took him a bit to get into his groove this year. Supposedly going up a weight or two. I know that weight cutting happens everywhere. I just don't hear this much of this type of stuff outside of OSU. It seems like guys are going up in weight because the cut is miserable. Yes, it is a fantastic program and they are well-coached great wrestlers. Whatever they are doing works. I just wouldn't have associated the program with "tough cuts" until relatively recently. The PSU msg board has elevated you to Chief Conspiracy Theorist and this kind of stuff is why. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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