Hammerlock3 Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 I'm consistently amazed at people's willingness to act as if people who quit the sport should get credit for matches they didn't wrestle. "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truzzcat Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 27 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said: I've "only" been following since '83-'84ish. I'd say this is a pretty good list, but night put Neal over Snyder. Snyder has that 3rd NCAA title, but no way can I see prime Snyder beating prime Neal 6 out of 10 times. I can't see it. I also have a soft spot for Haselrig (same d2 conference, same era). There are other worthy additions, but this is pretty good. It would obviously be different it it were "285." My dad roomed a door down from him for the semester Carlton was at Lock haven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 3 minutes ago, Truzzcat said: My dad roomed a door down from him for the semester Carlton was at Lock haven. Wow! Hopefully he was a nice guy! Never went to one wrestling practice at Lock Haven, or he could perhaps be eligible for this list! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Cinnabon Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 Bobby Telford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 20 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said: Bobby Telford Was he a 4x undefeated champ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elevator Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 Telford probably an IOWA top ten HWT? https://hawkeyesports.com/coach/bobby-telford/ Telford graduated from the University of Iowa in 2015. Following graduation, he competed for the Hawkeye Wrestling Club and climbed as high as No. 5 in the country at 125 kilograms. Telford wrestled for the Hawkeyes from 2011-15, earning All-America honors in 2012, 2014 and 2015. He completed his career with an overall record of 108-27 while wrestling at 285 pounds. Telford lives in Iowa City with his wife, Alex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 I love the open ended nature of this question. You can view the question as who was the greatest heavyweight in college using only college achievements. Or who was the greatest heavyweight in college using all achievements while in college (i.e. international results). Or who was the best heavyweight in college using a lifetime of results. Or who hit the highest peak in college while wrestling heavyweight. Something for everyone. If you only want to focus on college results, then it seems a logical starting point is to examine the list of four time all-americans first. There have been 12 wrestlers who AA'd 4 times at heavy (sorry Kyle Snyder), starting with @ionel's hero, Dick Hutton. The case for Steveson has to be based on highest high rather than any sustained success. But if that is the criteria I think Snyder pips him. Steveson has 2 AAs, 2 titles, and an Olympic Gold while in college. Meanwhile Snyder has 3 AAs, 3 titles, and an Olympic Gold while in college. Do you ding Snyder for having his gold at 97kg, or do you acknowledge that 97kg (~213 lb) is still heavy in college? For me I have Snyder, Steveson, Hutton, Haselrig, and Mocco as my top 5. Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NM1965 Posted May 30 Author Share Posted May 30 3 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said: I'm consistently amazed at people's willingness to act as if people who quit the sport should get credit for matches they didn't wrestle. Who are you referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchapman Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 16 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said: I love the open ended nature of this question. You can view the question as who was the greatest heavyweight in college using only college achievements. Or who was the greatest heavyweight in college using all achievements while in college (i.e. international results). Or who was the best heavyweight in college using a lifetime of results. Or who hit the highest peak in college while wrestling heavyweight. Something for everyone. If you only want to focus on college results, then it seems a logical starting point is to examine the list of four time all-americans first. There have been 12 wrestlers who AA'd 4 times at heavy (sorry Kyle Snyder), starting with @ionel's hero, Dick Hutton. The case for Steveson has to be based on highest high rather than any sustained success. But if that is the criteria I think Snyder pips him. Steveson has 2 AAs, 2 titles, and an Olympic Gold while in college. Meanwhile Snyder has 3 AAs, 3 titles, and an Olympic Gold while in college. Do you ding Snyder for having his gold at 97kg, or do you acknowledge that 97kg (~213 lb) is still heavy in college? For me I have Snyder, Steveson, Hutton, Haselrig, and Mocco as my top 5. Steveson has 3 AA's Craig Henning got screwed in the 2007 NCAA Finals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NM1965 Posted May 30 Author Share Posted May 30 12 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said: I love the open ended nature of this question. You can view the question as who was the greatest heavyweight in college using only college achievements. Or who was the greatest heavyweight in college using all achievements while in college (i.e. international results). Or who was the best heavyweight in college using a lifetime of results. Or who hit the highest peak in college while wrestling heavyweight. Something for everyone. If you only want to focus on college results, then it seems a logical starting point is to examine the list of four time all-americans first. There have been 12 wrestlers who AA'd 4 times at heavy (sorry Kyle Snyder), starting with @ionel's hero, Dick Hutton. The case for Steveson has to be based on highest high rather than any sustained success. But if that is the criteria I think Snyder pips him. Steveson has 2 AAs, 2 titles, and an Olympic Gold while in college. Meanwhile Snyder has 3 AAs, 3 titles, and an Olympic Gold while in college. Do you ding Snyder for having his gold at 97kg, or do you acknowledge that 97kg (~213 lb) is still heavy in college? For me I have Snyder, Steveson, Hutton, Haselrig, and Mocco as my top 5. Man, I don't know about putting Hutton in the top 5. Yeah, 3 time champ, 4 time finalist, but he wrestled in the "dead ball" era of wrestling, if you catch my drift. Yeah, I know it's baseball term, but I'm sure you get the drift. Wrestling back then was about as exciting as watching grass grow. Plus Dick was a relatively tiny dude at 5'10" and 235 pounds. I can't help but think he'd struggle against bigger modern heavies like Kerk, Hendrickson, and I think Chris Taylor or Jimmy Jackson might've crushed him to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 18 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said: For me I have Snyder, Steveson, Hutton, Haselrig, and Mocco as my top 5. No McCready? Isnt he also the highest pin percentage leader in D1? Shirley you aren't ignoring him because he was a true believe in the pin and not the fictitious pinfall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NM1965 Posted May 30 Author Share Posted May 30 1 minute ago, ionel said: No McCready? Isnt he also the highest pin percentage leader in D1? Shirley you aren't ignoring him because he was a true believe in the pin and not the fictitious pinfall? McReady? Who is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 3 minutes ago, NM1965 said: McReady? Who is that? Idk, never head of McReady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 36 minutes ago, jchapman said: Steveson has 3 AA's By 2, I mean 3 Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 2 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said: By 2, I mean 3 Stevenson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRef Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 (edited) 1 hour ago, ionel said: No McCready? Isnt he also the highest pin percentage leader in D1? Shirley you aren't ignoring him because he was a true believe in the pin and not the fictitious pinfall? Mike McCready from UNI? Edited May 30 by TexRef . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPhillips Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 30 minutes ago, ionel said: Stevenson? Him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRef Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 What about Greg Wojciechowski from Toledo? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 55 minutes ago, ionel said: No McCready? Isnt he also the highest pin percentage leader in D1? Shirley you aren't ignoring him because he was a true believe in the pin and not the fictitious pinfall? I always struggle with Earl. He was so dominant in so few matches against such undistiguished competition from only a fraction of the country, it is hard to place him. In 1928 he won two matches against guys who were never heard from again. In 1929 and 1930 he won three matches each year against four guys who were never heard from again, one who failed to AA the other time he wrestled, and one who AAd the next year. And this was at a time when 40% - 70% of the bracket AAd. But I am feeling generous. Since he has the fastest pin fall in NCAA history, I will bump Mocco, and slot Earl in at #5. And before you protest about the all mighty pin fall, be sure to review the rules in the 20's and 30's. 1 Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 5 minutes ago, TexRef said: Mike McCready from UNI? Earl McCready! What wrestling fan hasn't heard of 3x undefeated NC 88% pin rate The Moose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 36 minutes ago, ionel said: Stevenson? Well now that he isn't pretend wrestling anymore I dropped the spurious N. Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 6 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said: I always struggle with Earl. He was so dominant in so few matches against such undistiguished competition from only a fraction of the country, it is hard to place him. In 1928 he won two matches against guys who were never heard from again. In 1929 and 1930 he won three matches each year against four guys who were never heard from again, one who failed to AA the other time he wrestled, and one who AAd the next year. And this was at a time when 40% - 70% of the bracket AAd. But I am feeling generous. Since he has the fastest pin fall in NCAA history, I will bump Mocco, and slot Earl in at #5. And before you protest about the all mighty pin fall, be sure to review the rules in the 20's and 30's. Hate to break it to you but you are gonna have to fire that new intern, its "pinfall" not "pin fall." Spaces matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NM1965 Posted May 30 Author Share Posted May 30 17 minutes ago, TexRef said: What about Greg Wojciechowski from Toledo? He was before my time. Wasn't he a small HWT, around 190 pounds or so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 8 minutes ago, NM1965 said: He was before my time. Wasn't he a small HWT, around 190 pounds or so? 230 - 240 range, I think. A real heavyweight. 1 Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NM1965 Posted May 30 Author Share Posted May 30 4 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said: 230 - 240 range, I think. A real heavyweight. I guess I kinda had him pigeonholed as small because that was in the unlimited HWT era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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