What would happen if the Federal Government stopped giving out student loans.

[uncle bernard]

The bashing of humanities and arts degrees is going to look silly in 15-20 years when AI replaces STEM, CS and business jobs. People with humanities degrees already perform very well against non-humanities degrees over the long term.

It's only going to get worse for STEM, CS and Business degrees as AI expands. The CS market is already cratering. If you have college-aged kids or will in the future, I highly recommend pushing a humanities minor at the very least. The skillset you learn from that is extremely valuable for advancement beyond your introductory position.

[Offthemat]

7 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

The bashing of humanities and arts degrees is going to look silly in 15-20 years when AI replaces STEM, CS and business jobs. People with humanities degrees already perform very well against non-humanities degrees over the long term.

It's only going to get worse for STEM, CS and Business degrees as AI expands. The CS market is already cratering. If you have college-aged kids or will in the future, I highly recommend pushing a humanities minor at the very least. The skillset you learn from that is extremely valuable for advancement beyond your introductory position.

Where’s the AI going to get its electricity?  Not many of the humanities degrees handed out over the last 20+ years are worth spit.  They don’t lack for arrogance, however. 

[fishbane]

30 minutes ago, ionel said:

Pretty sure Princeton still has a need based loan program.  If you qualify to be admitted and under certain income level you can take out a loan and if you graduate the loan is forgiven.  Funds coming from income off endowment.  

I thought Princeton didn't give out loans as part of aid packages any more.  That their large endowments allowed them to meet 100% of all students need up to the EFC with grants and scholarships that do not need to be repaid. I think most (possibly all?) of the Ivies have a similar system along with some other top private institutions (Duke, Northwestern, MIT, John's Hopkins).  Some public schools have a similar guarantee for low income families.

Vito Arujau had stated that he didn't go to heavy into NIL and merch sales before 2023 because it would have negatively changed his Cornell aid.  The student's income component to the EFC is 50% after allowances (pretty much taxes).  So the calculation would assume that 50% of his after tax income should be contributed to his education.  If he made that money in 2022 it would go into the FAFSA calculation for the 2023-2024 school year and with Cornell tuition/fees/room/board at $90k/year, if his EFC was low he would end up paying 1/2 (after tax) of a significant amount of $$ to Cornell.

[Offthemat]

A long time Liberal Arts professor explains the situation:

https://jewishworldreview.com/0524/hanson050324.php3

[Wrestleknownothing]

4 hours ago, Paul158 said:

203 billion would be federal revenue the rest of the 1.2 trillion is nonfederal revenue. I found it it on USAFACTS.org. It was an article from 2018 . It was 1.086 trillion then. I pro-rated it to 1.4 trillion in 2023. 

You completely misread the article. 

https://usafacts.org/articles/what-do-universities-do-with-the-billions-they-receive-from-the-government/

Revenue from all sources was $1.068 trillion in 2018.

Of that, $149 billion, or 14% came from the federal government. Of the $149 billion, 65% (~$97 billion) went to student aid (scholarships, work-study, loans). Another 27% of the $149 billion total ($41 billion) went to fund research. The last 8% of the $149 billion ($11 billion) was for government contracts.

The number I posted earlier, $203 billion in 2020, was federal and state government funding, combined.

So your trillion dollars is off by a factor of 5.

[Wrestleknownothing]

3 hours ago, fishbane said:

I thought Princeton didn't give out loans as part of aid packages any more.  That their large endowments allowed them to meet 100% of all students need up to the EFC with grants and scholarships that do not need to be repaid. I think most (possibly all?) of the Ivies have a similar system along with some other top private institutions (Duke, Northwestern, MIT, John's Hopkins).  Some public schools have a similar guarantee for low income families.

Vito Arujau had stated that he didn't go to heavy into NIL and merch sales before 2023 because it would have negatively changed his Cornell aid.  The student's income component to the EFC is 50% after allowances (pretty much taxes).  So the calculation would assume that 50% of his after tax income should be contributed to his education.  If he made that money in 2022 it would go into the FAFSA calculation for the 2023-2024 school year and with Cornell tuition/fees/room/board at $90k/year, if his EFC was low he would end up paying 1/2 (after tax) of a significant amount of $$ to Cornell.

So he passed up a dollar of income because he would have to give 50 cents of it to Cornell? That doesn't make sense to me.

[Paul158]

2 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

You completely misread the article. 

https://usafacts.org/articles/what-do-universities-do-with-the-billions-they-receive-from-the-government/

Revenue from all sources was $1.068 trillion in 2018.

Of that, $149 billion, or 14% came from the federal government. Of the $149 billion, 65% (~$97 billion) went to student aid (scholarships, work-study, loans). Another 27% of the $149 billion total ($41 billion) went to fund research. The last 8% of the $149 billion ($11 billion) was for government contracts.

The number I posted earlier, $203 billion in 2020, was federal and state government funding, combined.

So your trillion dollars is off by a factor of 5.

Isn't 900 billion nonfederal revenue for a total 1.068 for 2018.  isn't nonfederal tuition?

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 minute ago, Paul158 said:

Isn't 900 billion nonfederal revenue for a total 1.068 for 2018.  isn't nonfederal tuition?

Non-federal would also include state funding.

[Paul158]

49 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Non-federal would also include state funding.

it says and I quote " Colleges and Universities received 1.068 trillion dollars in revenue from federal and non-federal funding sources."  non-federal would include tuition and state funding, etc. (correct). I pro-rated to 1.4 trillion for 2023 because I could not find the updated data. In the article I did not see where it broke down the non-federal revenue. I apologize if it is wrong or I am wrong.

Edited May 3 by Paul158
missed a word

[fishbane]

26 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

So he passed up a dollar of income because he would have to give 50 cents of it to Cornell? That doesn't make sense to me.

Presumably he'd have to do some amount of work to earn it, so it could be viewed as him declining to do the job for half the pay.  Or if he waited until the second semester of his junior year to do the job he would get 2x the money.

I think the excellent aid packages at the Ivy's had been a selling point for many student athletes.  It guarantees any potential athlete an affordable education and presumably a high value one.  Now if a potential athlete of modest means has an athletic scholarship offer at a non-Ivy and is weighing that against a generous aid package at Cornell that meets 100% of his need via grants it might not be as close.  In the past the decision might have came down to free school at a non-Ivy school vs nearly free school at Cornell.   Now that NIL earnings are a thing at the scholarship school the student athlete can keep 100% of his after tax NIL income, meanwhile at Cornell he would be sending half of the first $130-$180k or so in earnings back to the school.