Are all the Pro-Palestine, anti Israel protests helping or hurting the Democrats?

[Husker_Du]

5 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

“fundamentalists” he’s a ***ducking** UN human rights diplomat you racist scumbag. 

 

he's from Lebanon, who is shooting rockets into Israel and who houses Hezbollah and his rhetoric is very much on par with the Hezbollah leader.

just kinda like how Hamas runs Palestine.

pretty amazing that these terrorist groups run states but get sympathy from you wokesters.

but i guess the UN badge means he's a good dude. wake up. 

but, yeah, i'm racist. 

[Hammerlock3]

1 hour ago, uncle bernard said:

 

 

its kind of odd that you pretended I tried to crowbar a whole movement into one fringe person so you could make a snarky remark, but you tend to argue by posting video of individuals as if they were reliable summaries of huge groups of people. Almost like you only apply that level of analysis if it doesn't fit your narrative.

Edited April 25 by Hammerlock3

[uncle bernard]

4 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

he's from Lebanon, who is shooting rockets into Israel and who houses Hezbollah and his rhetoric is very much on par with the Hezbollah leader.

just kinda like how Hamas runs Palestine.

pretty amazing that these terrorist groups run states but get sympathy from you wokesters.

but i guess the UN badge means he's a good dude. wake up. 

but, yeah, i'm racist. 

You knew none of this when you called him a fundamentalist. None of it indicates he's a fundamentalist either. And what rhetoric are you referring to?

[uncle bernard]

Instead of flailing around trying to justify an ignorant accusation made in the heat of an argument, just admit you shouldn't have called him a fundamentalist and we'll all move on.

[uncle bernard]

Yeah, this guy just screams Islamic Fundamentalist lol. His background is in environmental issues and anti-pollution.

 

[Hammerlock3]

5 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

Yeah, this guy just screams Islamic Fundamentalist lol. His background is in environmental issues and anti-pollution.

 

that background heavily implies he subscribes to the colonizer/colonizee narrative thats a religion in itself.

[uncle bernard]

Just now, Hammerlock3 said:

that background heavily implies he subscribes to the colonizer/colonizee narrative thats a religion in itself.

talk about shifting goalposts. two things on the total opposite of the political spectrum and not at all what willie accused him of.

[uncle bernard]

24 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

he's from Lebanon, who is shooting rockets into Israel and who houses Hezbollah and his rhetoric is very much on par with the Hezbollah leader.

just kinda like how Hamas runs Palestine.

pretty amazing that these terrorist groups run states but get sympathy from you wokesters.

but i guess the UN badge means he's a good dude. wake up. 

but, yeah, i'm racist. 

most of the people dying are not in hamas. half of them are children. can you really not understand how someone could have empathy for innocent civilians caught in the middle of an awful conflict?

[Scouts Honor]

i know that you know or dont' know....

really

[Scouts Honor]

mOsT of THem are CIviLiAns

 

[Scouts Honor]

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/over-70-percent-of-palestinians-support-hamass-october-7-terror-attack-poll/#:~:text=Seventy-one percent of Palestinians,Union and the United States-

[Offthemat]

2 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

 

 

Hamas killed them. 

[Offthemat]

2 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:

na they probably got to Gaza, realized Israel is just a bunch of mean people and decided to stay.

And just decided to pop out a few jihadis while they’re there.  Yeah, right. 

[Hammerlock3]

33 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

talk about shifting goalposts. two things on the total opposite of the political spectrum and not at all what willie accused him of.

i notice you say "shifting goalposts" as if it was an argument in itself.

In case you haven't noticed, there are protests all over american campuses, peaceful and not so much, over the war in Gaza. They are a partnership between muslim fundamentalists and leftists who think the cause of terrorism is fighting against it. These are both fundamentalist perspectives, just like "give me complete control of the world's economy or else climate change". this is why you see "queers for palestine" signs, people on the left will thoughtlessly virtue signal by promoting anyone with a trendy victim narrative. 

by the way you are being dishonest again, willie was referring to the first guy and I was referring to the second, whom could easily be fundamentalists in different ways, but sense there is a partnership between these two sides on this issue your comment still made no sense.

[uncle bernard]

51 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

i notice you say "shifting goalposts" as if it was an argument in itself.

In case you haven't noticed, there are protests all over american campuses, peaceful and not so much, over the war in Gaza. They are a partnership between muslim fundamentalists and leftists who think the cause of terrorism is fighting against it. These are both fundamentalist perspectives, just like "give me complete control of the world's economy or else climate change". this is why you see "queers for palestine" signs, people on the left will thoughtlessly virtue signal by promoting anyone with a trendy victim narrative. 

by the way you are being dishonest again, willie was referring to the first guy and I was referring to the second, whom could easily be fundamentalists in different ways, but sense there is a partnership between these two sides on this issue your comment still made no sense.

The first guy and the second guy are the same guy. That's why I posted it. To show he's not an Islamic Fundamentalist like Willie accused him of being. And everybody on here knows Willie didn't think through the way that your two "fundamentalists" might be similar. He saw a Muslim supporting Palestine and cried fundamentalist which is obviously racist.

According to your definition of fundamentalism, @Offthemat @Scouts Honor and @Husker_Du are all hardcore fundamentalists as they've been clear that there's nothing Israel can do to make them not support it. I don't have a problem with Israel killing all of Hamas' fighters. That's war. I do have a problem with levelling apartment buildings, hospitals, and universities because there *might* be some Hamas fighters inside when they *know* that there are tons of civilians. That's how you get a genocide charge. It was just a week or two ago that they did an air strike on international food workers because they thought they saw a Hamas fighter join the caravan even though they admitted they couldn't confirm it. That *suspicion* was justification enough for them to kill 7 international volunteers, including an American citizen, who they knew were innocent. That's not an acceptable way to carry out a just war.

The "fundamentalists" on this forum don't want to engage in any nuance on the subject. They don't want to acknowledge that there is a way for Israel to carry out this war that would get far less criticism and kill far less people. They don't want to acknowledge that Israel isn't just doing this from self-defense and that they have ulterior motives *as any country would!* 

[Ohio Elite]

18 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

The first guy and the second guy are the same guy. That's why I posted it. To show he's not an Islamic Fundamentalist like Willie accused him of being. And everybody on here knows Willie didn't think through the way that your two "fundamentalists" might be similar. He saw a Muslim supporting Palestine and cried fundamentalist which is obviously racist.

According to your definition of fundamentalism, @Offthemat @Scouts Honor and @Husker_Du are all hardcore fundamentalists as they've been clear that there's nothing Israel can do to make them not support it. I don't have a problem with Israel killing all of Hamas' fighters. That's war. I do have a problem with levelling apartment buildings, hospitals, and universities because there *might* be some Hamas fighters inside when they *know* that there are tons of civilians. That's how you get a genocide charge. It was just a week or two ago that they did an air strike on international food workers because they thought they saw a Hamas fighter join the caravan even though they admitted they couldn't confirm it. That *suspicion* was justification enough for them to kill 7 international volunteers, including an American citizen, who they knew were innocent. That's not an acceptable way to carry out a just war.

The "fundamentalists" on this forum don't want to engage in any nuance on the subject. They don't want to acknowledge that there is a way for Israel to carry out this war that would get far less criticism and kill far less people. They don't want to acknowledge that Israel isn't just doing this from self-defense and that they have ulterior motives *as any country would!* 

Religion is not a race and you know this..

[JimmyBT]

7 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:

I try to remind myself before discussions like that this that there isn't a point unless I figure out something I hadn't known or considered before....uncle keyboard is one of the few times where I left the conversation thinking I really did know everything he did.

This  

[JimmyBT]

7 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

hamas hates it's own people

Funny how this post gets ignored by certain people.  

[JimmyBT]

2 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/over-70-percent-of-palestinians-support-hamass-october-7-terror-attack-poll/#:~:text=Seventy-one percent of Palestinians,Union and the United States-

Stop with the facts.  They don’t believe them when it doesn’t fit the narrative.  

[Hammerlock3]

58 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

The first guy and the second guy are the same guy. That's why I posted it. To show he's not an Islamic Fundamentalist like Willie accused him of being. And everybody on here knows Willie didn't think through the way that your two "fundamentalists" might be similar. He saw a Muslim supporting Palestine and cried fundamentalist which is obviously racist.

According to your definition of fundamentalism, @Offthemat @Scouts Honor and @Husker_Du are all hardcore fundamentalists as they've been clear that there's nothing Israel can do to make them not support it. I don't have a problem with Israel killing all of Hamas' fighters. That's war. I do have a problem with levelling apartment buildings, hospitals, and universities because there *might* be some Hamas fighters inside when they *know* that there are tons of civilians. That's how you get a genocide charge. It was just a week or two ago that they did an air strike on international food workers because they thought they saw a Hamas fighter join the caravan even though they admitted they couldn't confirm it. That *suspicion* was justification enough for them to kill 7 international volunteers, including an American citizen, who they knew were innocent. That's not an acceptable way to carry out a just war.

The "fundamentalists" on this forum don't want to engage in any nuance on the subject. They don't want to acknowledge that there is a way for Israel to carry out this war that would get far less criticism and kill far less people. They don't want to acknowledge that Israel isn't just doing this from self-defense and that they have ulterior motives *as any country would!* 

1) No the first and second guy aren't the same. They have different names and look nothing alike.

2) The civilian causalities are 100% the fault of hamas, both in the sense that they could surrender anytime, and the sense that they are using human shields. Worth noting they aren't using civilian shields to win a military objective, they are doing it because they are trying to win a propoganda war. Their goal is civilian casualties. If you validate this tactic it will be impossible for a truly evil party to lose a war. Also the civilian causalities aren't even disproportionate when compared to other wars in similar terrrain. the fact that you are dropping the word genocide when you are defending a party whose open policy is genocide makes me think you've never encountered any of the arguments against your own position.

3) I could name ten things that would cause the people you listed to cease supporting Israel, there is nothing you could ever think of that hamas would stop at in order to restore a caliphate.  So that comparison is ridiculous.

[JimmyBT]

8 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

(shaking head) 

Just seems like you're looking at this from one quite hawk-ish perspective. Like we did after 9.11. 'Kill everyone that was or may have been involved. With us or against us.'

That's not how the world works anymore. It can't be. 

Hamas = Hawkish.  Got it. 

[uncle bernard]

33 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

1) No the first and second guy aren't the same. They have different names and look nothing alike.

2) The civilian causalities are 100% the fault of hamas, both in the sense that they could surrender anytime, and the sense that they are using human shields. Worth noting they aren't using civilian shields to win a military objective, they are doing it because they are trying to win a propoganda war. Their goal is civilian casualties. If you validate this tactic it will be impossible for a truly evil party to lose a war. Also the civilian causalities aren't even disproportionate when compared to other wars in similar terrrain. the fact that you are dropping the word genocide when you are defending a party whose open policy is genocide makes me think you've never encountered any of the arguments against your own position.

3) I could name ten things that would cause the people you listed to cease supporting Israel, there is nothing you could ever think of that hamas would stop at in order to restore a caliphate.  So that comparison is ridiculous.

1) what are you talking about? the video you replied to is of Mohamad Safa, the same guy willie called a fundamentalist. 

2) the response to human shields isn’t to kill the shields. 

3) name them. 

[Paul158]

6 hours ago, BuckyBadger said:

Not quite an answer to the original question, but for what it’s worth, Biden’s approach here probably hurts him.

He is trying to straddle both sides. He doesn’t want to abandon Israel but he is also afraid of losing the young vote, which is pretty crucial to win as a Democrat. So he keeps making statements that are somewhat supportive and somewhat critical of both sides. This leaves everyone confused and uncertain.

That’s not a great look for the leader of the free world. He needs to pick a horse and stick with it (preferably the winning horse) or I think it hurts him in November. American voters want a winner, not someone who’s noncommittal trying to avoid the obvious.

Just my $0.02 if it’s worth even that much.

I  appreciate your thoughts on this. It is what I initially started the thread out to get some thought s on this. Boy has it taken quite a few turns .

[Hammerlock3]

9 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

1) what are you talking about? the video you replied to is of Mohamad Safa, the same guy willie called a fundamentalist. 

2) the response to human shields isn’t to kill the shields. 

3) name them. 

1) Where did this happen? I thought we were talking about last two guys you dropped videos of, regardless we should drop this discussion cause i'm pretty sure its just an honest mistake on someones part.

2) If you are fighting someone who is going to use their human shield ad infinitum to kill as many people as possible, yes you kill the shield. You could argue about the morality of an adult shooting a child to save themselves if it was just a limited scenario, but if the person using a human shield is going to use that shield to kill as many babies as they can you shoot the shield. 

3) If the Israelis instituted rape as an ostensible military tactic, the three you referenced would not support israel anymore. That a good enough example? One hamas can't live up to btw.

[Scouts Honor]

2 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

The first guy and the second guy are the same guy. That's why I posted it. To show he's not an Islamic Fundamentalist like Willie accused him of being. And everybody on here knows Willie didn't think through the way that your two "fundamentalists" might be similar. He saw a Muslim supporting Palestine and cried fundamentalist which is obviously racist.

According to your definition of fundamentalism, @Offthemat @Scouts Honor and @Husker_Du are all hardcore fundamentalists as they've been clear that there's nothing Israel can do to make them not support it. I don't have a problem with Israel killing all of Hamas' fighters. That's war. I do have a problem with levelling apartment buildings, hospitals, and universities because there *might* be some Hamas fighters inside when they *know* that there are tons of civilians. That's how you get a genocide charge. It was just a week or two ago that they did an air strike on international food workers because they thought they saw a Hamas fighter join the caravan even though they admitted they couldn't confirm it. That *suspicion* was justification enough for them to kill 7 international volunteers, including an American citizen, who they knew were innocent. That's not an acceptable way to carry out a just war.

The "fundamentalists" on this forum don't want to engage in any nuance on the subject. They don't want to acknowledge that there is a way for Israel to carry out this war that would get far less criticism and kill far less people. They don't want to acknowledge that Israel isn't just doing this from self-defense and that they have ulterior motives *as any country would!* 

is there anything that joe biden can do to make you not support  him?

how about 25% unrealized gains tax?