Poll: Who is the GOAT American wrestler?

[Paul158]

15 minutes ago, ionel said:

But the 2 or 3 may not be as good as the 1 caused they never trained against the best.

You can argue it both ways.  Sometimes its just about beating that 1 guy, just ask Fix.  

Its especially hard if you are a tweener.  If you are a really good 70KG   you have to wrestle 74KG now. That is difficult at this level. Smtih would have had to wrestle 149 lb or 68kg back then. I don't think he would have made the team.  

Edited April 13 by Paul158
missed a word.

[ionel]

5 minutes ago, Paul158 said:

Its especially hard if you are a tweener.  If you are a really good 70KG   you have to wrestle 74KG now. That is difficult at this level. Smtih would have had to wrestle 149 lb or 68kg back then. I don't think he would have made the team.  

We all know John would've just sucked down another weight class. 

[Paul158]

Just now, ionel said:

We all know John would've just sucked down another weight class. 

That is so true. I really feel sorry for his wrestlers. Having to cut to one weight class below their optimal weight. That would really suck.

[ionel]

27 minutes ago, Paul158 said:

That is so true. I really feel sorry for his wrestlers. Having to cut to one weight class below their optimal weight. That would really suck.

Don't think I've seen evidence of this, but yeah thats the joke.

[Paul158]

46 minutes ago, ionel said:

Don't think I've seen evidence of this, but yeah that is the joke.

Olivers cut to 133 was really bad. Coleman Scott's cut to 133 was massive.  Marstellars cut to 157 was ridiculous.  I believe he wrestled 171 in High school. There were many others.

Edited April 13 by Paul158
missed a word

[Hammerlock3]

Bruce should have more votes. This is too simplistic, but either your a Smith guy, or you're a volume guy and its Baumgartner. Again I respect and see argument within that thinking, but there are a lot of bias's at work against Bruce.

[ionel]

4 minutes ago, Paul158 said:

Olivers cut to 133 was really bad. Coleman Scott's cut to 133 was massive.  Marstellars cut to 157 was ridiculous.  I believe he wrestled 171 in High school. There were many others.

I don't recall on the first two but how do we know they weren't "optimal?"  On Marstellar we know he was on the weed and munchies, his only option that first year was 157 (and betting fat data showed he could wrestle there) wasn't beating the 165 but also he gassed at 165 in open tournament so perhaps not the cut but the Cheetos.  

[scourge165]

12 hours ago, boconnell said:

It's awesome that because the result doesn't fit what you believed before the match happened, that it must not count.  The opponent must be juiced and Sad must be compromised.  

Yeah...I'm searching for where I said it "didn't count." 

And Sad must be compromised? Yeah, I'd say the neck surgery immediately following that match was evidence he probably wasn't 100%. Just a wild take though

[boconnell]

3 hours ago, Paul158 said:

Olivers cut to 133 was really bad. Coleman Scott's cut to 133 was massive.  Marstellars cut to 157 was ridiculous.  I believe he wrestled 171 in High school. There were many others.

Scott was at 125 his first two years and he was still wrestling the Olympics at 132 four years after college.  Where are you getting the idea that 133 was a massive cut for him?

Oliver definitely had a year of cutting too much before bumping two weights.  Marstellar chose to go down because it was the only way to make the team.  If he stuck around I'm sure he would have gone up the instant Dieringer was gone.  Since the Oliver at 133 year their team has been small and has cut very little weight.  Tons of guys have moved up in weights since then.  I assume a lesson was learned by killing Oliver.  This year's team definitely wasn't cutting by college standards.  Most of the team was small (including their two finalists).

[boconnell]

16 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Yeah...I'm searching for where I said it "didn't count." 

When you declared the guy who beat him was on steroids.

[VakAttack]

Burroughs and Smitty are very close for me, but I have it Burroughs by a hair.

[scourge165]

7 minutes ago, boconnell said:

When you declared the guy who beat him was on steroids.

I said it didn't "count?" 

I'm THRILLED you can translate for me! 

Now, please slide off, I need to take a piss. Find someone else and whine about their choice to them. Deal?

[boconnell]

3 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

I said it didn't "count?" 

I'm THRILLED you can translate for me! 

Now, please slide off, I need to take a piss. Find someone else and whine about their choice to them. Deal?

You continuously reply and then whine about me replying.  Classic stuff.

Regarding what you said, do you think matches where guys use steroids should count?

[boconnell]

7 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Burroughs and Smitty are very close for me, but I have it Burroughs by a hair.

Same for me.  it's interesting to think what Smith would have done in an era of more financial support, but it's crazy to see what Burroughs actually did.  Especially with some of the USA talent he had to beat just to be there most years.  

[VakAttack]

2 minutes ago, boconnell said:

Same for me.  it's interesting to think what Smith would have done in an era of more financial support, but it's crazy to see what Burroughs actually did.  Especially with some of the USA talent he had to beat just to be there most years.  

Yeah, I think it's a combination of the high level of domestic competition plus the fact that there are more Russians wrestling now (for other countries).

[JimmyCinnabon]

15 hours ago, wrestlingshoe said:

Opinions don't need criteria, unless your opinion is that you need criteria...

Did I end up in some unsolvable logic loop? Help!

[wrestlingshoe]

5 hours ago, JimmyCinnabon said:

Did I end up in some unsolvable logic loop? Help!

Just pointing out that an opinion is just that, an opinion and thus needs no supporting evidence. 

[ionel]

15 minutes ago, wrestlingshoe said:

Just pointing out that an opinion is just that, an opinion and thus needs no supporting evidence. 

Well that may be your opinion but some may disagree.  

[wrestlingshoe]

23 minutes ago, ionel said:

Well that may be your opinion but some may disagree.  

You may be trying to be sarcastic, but my opinion about opinions isn't an opinion. 

[ionel]

7 minutes ago, wrestlingshoe said:

You may be trying to be sarcastic, but my opinion about opinions isn't an opinion. 

My opinion is that your opinion about opinions is an opinion. 

[wrestlingshoe]

5 minutes ago, ionel said:

My opinion is that your opinion about opinions is an opinion. 

There is a difference between opinion and fact and my comment about opinion is fact. 

[ionel]

11 minutes ago, wrestlingshoe said:

There is a difference between opinion and fact and my comment about opinion is fact. 

Its a fact that my opinion is your opinion is not factual.

[bnwtwg]

All of you are still wrong.

Adeline Gray is the US goat. Her arithmetic is simple: titles X longevity = GOAT

She has it all. And if she brings home more hardware this year then it further distances her from the field.

[Threadkilla]

38 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

All of you are still wrong.

Adeline Gray is the US goat. Her arithmetic is simple: titles X longevity = GOAT

She has it all. And if she brings home more hardware this year then it further distances her from the field.

 

That could change in about 5 years if Elor continues on her path.  

[bnwtwg]

3 hours ago, Threadkilla said:

 

That could change in about 5 years if Elor continues on her path.  

Agreed. She is on the path. But then again, so was Snyder...