lisa morales Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Not sure why Cael doesn't allow some of his key backups to wrestle for Penn? Seems like it would be reasonable to nurture their feeder system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1032004 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 10 hours ago, MinnesotaMustang said: I think he will do fine at UPenn, but it is incredibly strange to me that someone could go from not coaching (but working in athletic department) to the Head Coach. The Indianpolis Colts did it in the middle of the season in 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice of the Quakers Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 4 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said: Fair points. What was the time line of the RTC and the Tirapelle's hiring? I could've sworn it was around the same time for both. Tough situation to be brought into. Learning everything about a new program and balance the exec, athletes, and supporting donors of a new RTC. As much calming insight as you've offered I'll bet there is more to it. Bringing a former HC back after 12 years out of the sport(was he a volunteer for a year? 11 years) is ludicrous on its face. There were obvious concessions that RR was given to right the ship that were not offered to Tirapelle and its laughable that anyone will try to explain it away as 'not panicked'. Huge recruiting classes were brought in the next few years. I wonder if there were Title IX implications for the department? If not, how could those changes in roster size be accounted for? Were extra Warton opportunities offered to potential recruits? Those spots are coveted by every team in the department. Were there backroom deals done to shift those around for a time a la Varsity Blues that broke at a similar time? Someone with knowledge of the system and the right relationships would be a great person to get things moving in the right direction. How did the conversation start, to get Matt on board with coming back after nearly 10 years? Similar circumstances or different? There is a lot of conjecture in your last two posts that are completely unwarranted. Two points I will leave you with: 1) Penn does not have a roster cap. 2) Roger is a fantastic recruiter- trust me, I was in his 2nd recruiting class. Dan McDonald, Penn '93 danmc167@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker118 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 20 hours ago, NM1965 said: It must be some pretty amazing aid. Granted, the degree would be very shiny from an IVY. I remember a kid from Harvard winning a title about 15 years or so ago. When he was interviewed afterward he was yoked that he'd gotten an IVY education more than an NCAA wrestling title. The level of success former Penn wrestling standouts have achieved far outweigh the pittance they would have received from scholarships or NIL money. Especially those that were admitted to Wharton which many Penn wrestlers were and continue to be. Parents and kids need to look at the long game when choosing a program. It is amusing to read people speculate about the inner workings of Penn wrestling and decisions that have been made leading up to now. I can say as someone closely connected to the program which started when I competed there from 1970-1975 we are all onboard and thrilled that Matt is taking over. He had extensive coaching previously and his wrestling credentials cannot be questioned. Some of the silly posts about his style aren’t worth discussing. I watched him for 4 years and if he can instill some of what drove him to succeed our program will thrive. I believe Voice of the Quakers addressed some timeline issues but for much of the rest most of you don’t know what had gone on behind the scenes that led to many decisions being made. Looking forward to moving forward next season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointTakedown Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 On 4/5/2024 at 5:57 PM, Voice of the Quakers said: There is a lot of conjecture in your last two posts that are completely unwarranted. Two points I will leave you with: 1) Penn does not have a roster cap. 2) Roger is a fantastic recruiter- trust me, I was in his 2nd recruiting class. 1. I would check your sources. They still need to follow Title IX rules about money spent and roster spots across the department. Which means, the roster is controlled with collaboration from every sport. 2. Fantastic recruiters take 11 years to get their first AA? Then retire less than 10 years later? Second question has less to do with recruiting, I guess. Maybe more to do with handing the reins to more capable hands. Then those hands have a few good years then leave for what they feel is a better gig. Right about the same time the alums from the mid-late 90's start being able contribute more and perhaps begin to exert or insist on a bit more influence on the direction of the program. I always take 'trust me' with a grain of salt. Was it conjecture to say the recruiting classes were of dramatically different sizes prior to and immediately following the hiring of RR? I would say that is spot on accurate and cause for concern to anyone interested in the program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lisa morales Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 Roger is a fantastic recruiter- trust me, I was in his 2nd recruiting class - I'll bet you were a killer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinnacle Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 On 4/4/2024 at 5:00 PM, Quaker118 said: Valenti in the 2006 NCAA tournament: fall,fall,7-2,7-3,3-2 against super tough 2x runner up Fleeger. 2007 NCAA tournament. 6-2,9-3,4-0,4-2,4-2 against future champ Scott. I would expect total ignorance from a Scarlet Night on anything related to Penn wrestling. I was at virtually every home match, NCAA tournament, and EIWA tournament that Matt participated in. Somehow he managed to score some points occasionally. But if he can develop national champs that win on riding time, I’ll be OK with that. I think Matt is a fantastic choice to lead the Penn Quakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice of the Quakers Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 6 hours ago, lisa morales said: Roger is a fantastic recruiter- trust me, I was in his 2nd recruiting class - I'll bet you were a killer. I wasn't a killer - that's why I was in his 2nd class, although I was also recruited by the other Ivies as well as Michigan (man, that was a fun visit), Syracuse and Rutgers, as well as other schools. Roger was hired at 26 after Penn tried to drop the program. By the time my class graduated (1993), we were getting votes in the Top 25. In 1996, Penn won the first of four straight EIWA team titles. Honestly, I'm not sure why I'm responding to you or Three Point Takedown - your responses have repeatedly demonstrated you have no freaking idea what you are talking about. Good day. 4 Dan McDonald, Penn '93 danmc167@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lisa morales Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 Don't be like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdalu75 Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 On 4/5/2024 at 12:29 PM, Voice of the Quakers said: Recruiting and results improved immediately upon Roger’s return. That's what I remember. I recall thinking that "Roger can still recruit". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdalu75 Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 Well, this is confusing. Good thing the Ivies are going off on their own next year, otherwise there could be three Nate Taylors in the same tournament. 2024 Recruiting Commitments Penn Nate Taylor 48 Greens Farms Academy CT 184 Penn Luke Simcox 59 Central Mountain PA 141 Penn Davis Motyka 75 Wyoming Seminary PA 125 Penn Nathan Taylor Kingsway NJ 133 Penn Paul Ognissanti Blair Academy NJ 165 Penn Calvin Lachman Quakertown PA 285 Penn Ty Wilson Dublin Scioto OH 157/165 Penn Caden Bellis Tioga NY 165/174 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker118 Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 Luke Simcox pulled his Penn commitment and is headed to UNC. All about the $$. He had great financial aid to go to Wharton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingcement Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 12 minutes ago, Quaker118 said: Luke Simcox pulled his Penn commitment and is headed to UNC. All about the $$. He had great financial aid to go to Wharton. wow. UNC is a great school, but forgoing Wharton is not something that happens very often Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker118 Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 He would have paid $9000/year to get a Wharton degree. Time will tell if he made a good decision. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingcement Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 3 minutes ago, Quaker118 said: He would have paid $9000/year to get a Wharton degree. Time will tell if he made a good decision. I think financially it was objectively a poor decision as it stands. And while almost all lives are constrained by finances, they should not be entirely governed by them. I don't know what he values and what he's looking for next. Good luck to him. I'm sure Koll has a good sales pitch lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointTakedown Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 12 hours ago, flyingcement said: I think financially it was objectively a poor decision as it stands. And while almost all lives are constrained by finances, they should not be entirely governed by them. I don't know what he values and what he's looking for next. Good luck to him. I'm sure Koll has a good sales pitch lol Might be interested in, what they feel is, a better coach/environment to train. Also, that's awfully specific about the financial aid package. Curious how, if accurate, that info dropped in your lap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker118 Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 28 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said: Might be interested in, what they feel is, a better coach/environment to train. Also, that's awfully specific about the financial aid package. Curious how, if accurate, that info dropped in your lap? Suffice it to say I am very connected to Penn wrestling and wouldn’t post something that specific without being privy to those details. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamboat_charlie Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 13 hours ago, Quaker118 said: He would have paid $9000/year to get a Wharton degree. Time will tell if he made a good decision. 13 hours ago, flyingcement said: I think financially it was objectively a poor decision as it stands. And while almost all lives are constrained by finances, they should not be entirely governed by them. I don't know what he values and what he's looking for next. Good luck to him. I'm sure Koll has a good sales pitch lol This is entirely dependent on what he wishes to do for a career, what he does with his time in college, and which environment he is better suited for. It's not like he eschewed Penn to enroll at a sub-par institution. UNC is a top 25 university with a top 10 undergraduate business program (assuming that is indeed what he wants to do). They have all of the resources there to launch a determined student into literally any career path. I'm not downplaying the value of Penn (or Wharton undergrad)--you won't find a better undergraduate business program anywhere. But it's not one size fits all. Some people will do better in other environments. The kid is from middle of nowhere central PA--perhaps he's more comfortable with the college town atmosphere and will perform better there, both on the mat and academically. Nobody here is qualified to say he made an "objectively bad decision." However, $36k for a degree from Penn is an objectively good deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointTakedown Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 1 hour ago, Quaker118 said: Suffice it to say I am very connected to Penn wrestling and wouldn’t post something that specific without being privy to those details. I don't think its responsible to disclose that information on a public forum. Might not be information they want to be made public. Inferences both negative and positive, but lets be honest, mostly negative could be extrapolated by that figure. Unless you have a reason you want that info out there. Does the staff or the admins know this information is getting posted? Might want to put some checks in place to keep financial aid information from getting around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamboat_charlie Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 On the topic of Penn, I'm a little confused why they're able to skate by without criticism. They've brought in a number of talented recruits over the past 6 or 7 years and have what to show for it? Consistently disappointing performances at NCAAs. Plenty of resources and no results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elevator Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 1 hour ago, ThreePointTakedown said: I don't think its responsible to disclose that information on a public forum. Might not be information they want to be made public. Inferences both negative and positive, but lets be honest, mostly negative could be extrapolated by that figure. Unless you have a reason you want that info out there. Does the staff or the admins know this information is getting posted? Might want to put some checks in place to keep financial aid information from getting around. Probably a typo and just a reference to public info that that the annual costs at Penn (and most similar private schools) is now an unsustainable amount of about $90k per year. Crazy expensive. Of course, the actual amount paid varies and the average/median is far lower w/ a high % of students getting some measure of need-based financial aid. Obviously, NIL may be at issue for some student athletes and NIL deals may have connections with specific schools and programs. I have no direct knowledge of any actual NIL deals. The calculus of a $90 k sticker price is a kind of market harvesting for the families with no financial need who can choose to pay full freight, try to negotiate (no idea if Penn does, have heard other private schools do on occasion), or find a better deal (some great state school programs out there). As to the issue of the value of a wharton degree, sure if a student wants a finance or other similar business career and go chase that life. But not everyone is interested in that or could stand it. My view is that there is value in other areas of study - the world needs doctors, research scientists, engineers, teachers, sales people, and hopefully a few artists and poets! Students can always circle back and get an MBA later if they so choose. I know one guy who got a wharton undergrad degree, MBA from another Ivy, and then went to medical school and had had a career as a physician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elevator Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 56 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie said: On the topic of Penn, I'm a little confused why they're able to skate by without criticism. They've brought in a number of talented recruits over the past 6 or 7 years and have what to show for it? Consistently disappointing performances at NCAAs. Plenty of resources and no results. Hah! This board has had many pot shot posts at the program - there has been no skating. The measure of success at Penn is probably different than for B1G and similar scholarship wrestling programs and their fans. While aspiring to more NCAA success than achieved in recent years, qualifying 8 and 9 for NCAA's, winning Midlands, and regularly stomping Princeton in dual meets are their own highly valued competitive milestone achievements. I expect that even more important to the administration and alumni supporters as a measure of success for the program are achievements away from competition - including serving in the noble goals of the Beat the Streets program and providing those enriching opportunities to the athletes. Rightfully, these achievements and opportunities are highly valued and credited - even if not on this board and its critics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamboat_charlie Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 9 minutes ago, Elevator said: Hah! This board has had many pot shot posts at the program - there has been no skating. The measure of success at Penn is probably different than for B1G and similar scholarship wrestling programs and their fans. While aspiring to more NCAA success than achieved in recent years, qualifying 8 and 9 for NCAA's, winning Midlands, and regularly stomping Princeton in dual meets are their own highly valued competitive milestone achievements. I expect that even more important to the administration and alumni supporters as a measure of success for the program are achievements away from competition - including serving in the noble goals of the Beat the Streets program and providing those enriching opportunities to the athletes. Rightfully, these achievements and opportunities are highly valued and credited - even if not on this board and its critics. All time spin zone there. "We don't even care about the NCAA tournament." ..... surrrrrreeeee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamboat_charlie Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Elevator said: I know one guy who got a wharton undergrad degree, MBA from another Ivy, and then went to medical school and had had a career as a physician. That guy either has extraordinarily generous parents, or the largest student loan balance known to man (unless this was like 30 years ago). Edited April 10 by steamboat_charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 1 hour ago, steamboat_charlie said: That guy either has extraordinarily generous parents, or the largest student loan balance known to man (unless this was like 30 years ago). Not exactly the same, but Dave Hirsch (Cornell national champ) went from a Cornell undergrad (Econ?) to dental school, and then medical school! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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