Truzzcat Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 41 minutes ago, bnwtwg said: He's got all day to recover. Retherford and Arujau have the best scenario possible for hard cuts since 57 and 65 didn't medal therefore no challenge tourney final. They won't wrestle until the evening so all day to recover, just the single semi match, and then the best of three finals the next day against the other semi winner. oh thats huge for him did not even consider that, how long off the scale for the second day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 Presumably Lee will be the #2 seed. Will Diakomihalis be the #3, or is it McKenna? Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhs67 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 47 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said: Presumably Lee will be the #2 seed. Will Diakomihalis be the #3, or is it McKenna? Why is Lee #2? "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 9 minutes ago, nhs67 said: Why is Lee #2? Number 2 in the bracket sense, because he is 1 on the US 65 ladder. Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnwtwg Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 48 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said: Number 2 in the bracket sense, because he is 1 on the US 65 ladder. Lee will all but certainly be seeded #1 Retherford does not receive a seed i am an idiot on the internet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 11 minutes ago, bnwtwg said: Lee will all but certainly be seeded #1 Retherford does not receive a seed Yes, but Retherford will effectively have a seed by being one of the semifinalists. So the jist of my question was who will be on his side of the bracket and who will be opposite? If Retherford is effectively treated like the 1 seed, Lee and someone else (Diakomihalis or McKenna, presumably) will be opposite. If Retherford is effectively treated like the 4 seed, Lee will be same side. Etc. Does anyone know how they land relative to Retherford? 1 Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerlock3 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 4 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said: Yes, but Retherford will effectively have a seed by being one of the semifinalists. So the jist of my question was who will be on his side of the bracket and who will be opposite? If Retherford is effectively treated like the 1 seed, Lee and someone else (Diakomihalis or McKenna, presumably) will be opposite. If Retherford is effectively treated like the 4 seed, Lee will be same side. Etc. Does anyone know how they land relative to Retherford? only thing I could think of was took at the 2020 brackets, at 74k Dake was drawn in like a third seed. Maybe the idea is keep the chubby ones away from the 1 and 2 seed as long as possible? Probably the right move...if that theory holds Retherford and Lee would be separated. "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 14 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said: only thing I could think of was took at the 2020 brackets, at 74k Dake was drawn in like a third seed. Maybe the idea is keep the chubby ones away from the 1 and 2 seed as long as possible? Probably the right move...if that theory holds Retherford and Lee would be separated. And which of Diakomihalis and McKenna is on the Retherford side do you think? Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerlock3 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 29 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said: And which of Diakomihalis and McKenna is on the Retherford side do you think? Based on my previous made up assumptions, and assuming yiani has a higher seed than Mckenna, that would put Yianni on bottom with retherford. 1 "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnwtwg Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, Wrestleknownothing said: And which of Diakomihalis and McKenna is on the Retherford side do you think? Both. Who would be seeded ahead of either of them? They will be the 2 and 3 seeds respectively. Edited April 3 by bnwtwg 1 i am an idiot on the internet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhs67 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 5 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said: And which of Diakomihalis and McKenna is on the Retherford side do you think? Please see below for how the bracket will look. Every aside for Retherdord will still be seeded the same way. 4 hours ago, bnwtwg said: Both. Who would be seeded ahead of either of them? They will be the 2 and 3 seeds respectively. Alirez could be the 2 and Bartlett the 3. Alirez bear Bartlett beat McKenna beat Johnny D. Could be that order. 1 "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truzzcat Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 2 hours ago, nhs67 said: Please see below for how the bracket will look. Every aside for Retherdord will still be seeded the same way. Alirez could be the 2 and Bartlett the 3. Alirez bear Bartlett beat McKenna beat Johnny D. Could be that order. I don't think Yianni will fall below the 2,3 just looking at large body of work and having the overall h2h with McKenna. Bartlett coming in at the 4,5 will be interesting for lee and a potential Mckenna quarter would be brutal for yianni. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnwtwg Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 I'm just waiting for Jordan Oliver to come out of retirement for one more huge cut down to 65 so it can be like old times with Yianni, Zain, JO, McKenna, and the Cornell lawyers i am an idiot on the internet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhs67 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 1 hour ago, bnwtwg said: I'm just waiting for Jordan Oliver to come out of retirement for one more huge cut down to 65 so it can be like old times with Yianni, Zain, JO, McKenna, and the Cornell lawyers JO looked absolutely massive for 145lbs in his fight in August on day before weigh-ins. "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhs67 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 2 hours ago, Truzzcat said: I don't think Yianni will fall below the 2,3 just looking at large body of work and having the overall h2h with McKenna. Bartlett coming in at the 4,5 will be interesting for lee and a potential Mckenna quarter would be brutal for yianni. I see what you are saying, but doesn't McKenna own the last victory? Add in that he has been active on the circuit, even if he did lose to Bartlett at Senior Nationals. He has also put together quite a good resume on the international circuit(s), only losing to medalists. I don't think they would drop him below 2/3, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him at the 4/5 because of the lack of activity. "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerlock3 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 @Wrestleknownothing The more I think about it the more I think my logic is sound. If you have to seed the placers from other weights, you can't do it directly because presumably they don't have recent matches to compare and they are basically wild cards based on how their weight cuts go, so first priority is to get them away from the one seed, then are far as possible from the two seed...so you drop the weirdo in the 3 quarter, and preserve the 2/3 semi on the bottom because the core assumption is that you don't know what to expect from the chubby guy. Would any other way make sense? "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrestle87 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 On 3/31/2024 at 10:00 PM, wrestlingshoe said: It's a bad look for wrestling in general. MMA/UFC is half WWE, the false bravado, the calling people out. Bo is brining that into his life. It may be a needed piece of his career, now, but it's not necessary in wrestling. And Starocci saying he's going to end Boroughs career... It's all moving to social media click bait. Nailed it, 100%. Talking smack on social media, especially twitter is the main thing that fighters or future fighters need to be able to do in order to get picked up by promotions. If you are great with your thumbs and only ok with your hands, they will find a way to make you champion and keep you labeled as champion for as long as possible. They are still running the "mcgregor" protocol for all fighters as much as possible, and it's really very tired...but it drives headlines because media broadly functions that way now. Using mcgregor as the example, after his first win to claim a belt in 2015, the dude went 3-4 over his next 7 fights, and 2 of those wins were clearly meatball pre-arranged in results. Dude was a below average fighter, but he was an effective entertainer before and after the fight, that he made money... And...fighters understand that it is way better to make money with your thumbs than by taking a fist to the face, so they will use this style of back and forth as much as possible. Is it gross? Yeah...but it's also really smart, and is a way to make sure that guys can retire after ten fights instead of going the donald cerrone chuck liddell route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 7 minutes ago, wrestle87 said: Nailed it, 100%. Talking smack on social media, especially twitter is the main thing that fighters or future fighters need to be able to do in order to get picked up by promotions. If you are great with your thumbs and only ok with your hands, they will find a way to make you champion and keep you labeled as champion for as long as possible. They are still running the "mcgregor" protocol for all fighters as much as possible, and it's really very tired...but it drives headlines because media broadly functions that way now. Using mcgregor as the example, after his first win to claim a belt in 2015, the dude went 3-4 over his next 7 fights, and 2 of those wins were clearly meatball pre-arranged in results. Dude was a below average fighter, but he was an effective entertainer before and after the fight, that he made money... And...fighters understand that it is way better to make money with your thumbs than by taking a fist to the face, so they will use this style of back and forth as much as possible. Is it gross? Yeah...but it's also really smart, and is a way to make sure that guys can retire after ten fights instead of going the donald cerrone chuck liddell route. Below average? Clearly not. No way. What he did to Mendes, Aldo, Alvarez? Not below average. Who were the two meatballs? Cerrone and whom? No way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 3 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said: @Wrestleknownothing The more I think about it the more I think my logic is sound. If you have to seed the placers from other weights, you can't do it directly because presumably they don't have recent matches to compare and they are basically wild cards based on how their weight cuts go, so first priority is to get them away from the one seed, then are far as possible from the two seed...so you drop the weirdo in the 3 quarter, and preserve the 2/3 semi on the bottom because the core assumption is that you don't know what to expect from the chubby guy. Would any other way make sense? That makes sense to me. I did not word my question well, which led to some confusion. But also my assumption wrong. I assumed that Lee would be the #1 seed among those not receiving a pass to the semi, and either Diakomihalis or McKenna would be the #2 seed within that group. But treating everyone but Retherford as a group is the wrong way to think about it. Retherford as the #3 seed with a pass to the semis is, I think, the right way to think about it. Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lu_alum Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 Here is the bracket with seeds, as defined for the OTT guidelines…https://assets.contentstack.io/v3/assets/blteb7d012fc7ebef7f/bltf8d10db3aa328be4/650367e19bcd1b10091d0862/2024_MFS_OLY_Procedures.pdfSent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrestle87 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 2 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said: Below average? Clearly not. No way. What he did to Mendes, Aldo, Alvarez? Not below average. Who were the two meatballs? Cerrone and whom? No way. I typed a very long response...but then was bad at using my keyboard and exited the tab, so it has gone bye bye. The dude is a stellar entertainer, and clearly has written the playbook for getting paid as a fighter (hence twitter nonsense that just "magically erupts" 2 months before a big UFC card. He was, however, a lousy top-level fighter. He took EXTREMELY long breaks between fights, and had very mediocre performances in all his top outings since the Aldo fight, which was in 2015. Again, very smart from a self-preservation and marketing perspective, but really crappy overall performances when he actually fought. He never defended the 145 belt, he just held it and vacated it 18 months after winning it. And then after winning the 155 belt, he ran and hid for two years, with his only defense being against Khabib...and we know how that went. 2 of his three wins since 2015 came from opponents who knew they were never getting a title shot, and were meant to be name-builders/step-ladders for Señor Mcgregor. For reference and comparison, below are the records of Mcgregor against other top guys at his weight. He doesn't come close to matching up... Mcgregor: Charles Oliveira: Justin Gaethje: Dustin Poirier: The green-red ratios speak for themselves. If you still reflexively feel a desire to disagree, I congratulate you on your fanboydom, it is a special, particularly deep-seated religious fervor, I have many friends who are your fellow travelers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 30 minutes ago, wrestle87 said: I typed a very long response...but then was bad at using my keyboard and exited the tab, so it has gone bye bye. The dude is a stellar entertainer, and clearly has written the playbook for getting paid as a fighter (hence twitter nonsense that just "magically erupts" 2 months before a big UFC card. He was, however, a lousy top-level fighter. He took EXTREMELY long breaks between fights, and had very mediocre performances in all his top outings since the Aldo fight, which was in 2015. Again, very smart from a self-preservation and marketing perspective, but really crappy overall performances when he actually fought. He never defended the 145 belt, he just held it and vacated it 18 months after winning it. And then after winning the 155 belt, he ran and hid for two years, with his only defense being against Khabib...and we know how that went. 2 of his three wins since 2015 came from opponents who knew they were never getting a title shot, and were meant to be name-builders/step-ladders for Señor Mcgregor. For reference and comparison, below are the records of Mcgregor against other top guys at his weight. He doesn't come close to matching up... Mcgregor: Charles Oliveira: Justin Gaethje: Dustin Poirier: The green-red ratios speak for themselves. If you still reflexively feel a desire to disagree, I congratulate you on your fanboydom, it is a special, particularly deep-seated religious fervor, I have many friends who are your fellow travelers... I am not a "fan-boy." I am in reality. The guy was a great fighter, and had a major drop off after becoming successful. That is all. How can you call him "below average?" Clearly lacking in intelligence and judgement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrestle87 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 1 minute ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said: I am not a "fan-boy." I am in reality. The guy was a great fighter, and had a major drop off after becoming successful. That is all. How can you call him "below average?" Clearly lacking in intelligence and judgement. Clearly lacking in reading skills, I said he was a sup-bar top-level fighter...meaning...since words seem to be hard...that amongst the top echelon of guys, he isn't very competitive... It's ok, I know echelon is a big word...echelon means tier or group...in order to get into that top group of fighters, one must necessarily beat the middle-group of fighters... So...this would put him right on the divide between middle-tier and top tier, better than most middle-tier fighters, but worst than most top-tier fighters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerlock3 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 2 hours ago, lu_alum said: Here is the bracket with seeds, as defined for the OTT guidelines… https://assets.contentstack.io/v3/assets/blteb7d012fc7ebef7f/bltf8d10db3aa328be4/650367e19bcd1b10091d0862/2024_MFS_OLY_Procedures.pdf Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk i went to the link, it didn't say anything about bracket placement that I could see... "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lu_alum Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 i went to the link, it didn't say anything about bracket placement that I could see...Everything I’ve seen has shown a single World Medalist placed in the bottom semifinal. I have no idea how they would place two World Medalists in the semi-finals. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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