One principle that stands above all others: personal accountability

[jross]

What draws you to the sport and this forum?  Do know nothings and friends discuss analytics on fitness, flexibility, situational awareness, stress management, and using one's imagination.  Honest curiosity.  

On 4/16/2024 at 3:12 PM, ThreePointTakedown said:

~not about winning~

A successful wrestlers gets out of the sport what they want. That's it. Maintain their fitness and flexibility. Learn some situational awareness. Maybe how to function better/more effectively in a various stressful environments. Use their imagination to see clear and efficient solutions to complex problems before they've even arisen. 

 

[jross]

8 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

I don't accept that definition. Those words work perfectly well on their own. With little to know way of explaining how you can, definitively, get to either of them. Win or dominance. Again if you have some knowledge I'm all eyes. 

The second line. I don't accept your premise. You'll have to define the characteristics of the 'W' word and why they should be considered in a negative way. Then explain the causal relationship to happiness and why its effects on happiness is, again, negative. 

So how do we proceed from here? 

Personal accountability is strongly needed to win and dominate a college wrestling match.  

Does being a weak, cowardly, ineffectual person create a sense of confidence and satisfaction?  Imagine someone steals your idea and project work.  They are recognized for your work and in line for a promotion.  Are you going to speak up?  Imagine this occurred to a collegue, you felt it was wrong, and did not speak up.  Imagine you are losing a wrestling match by one point with one minute left to go.  You refrain from attacking and time runs out with the same score on the board.  Imagine gassing out during a wrestling match and losing in the final seconds.

[jross]

9 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

Again, there is no way to nail down 'PA'.

The words are in the dictionary.

9 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

Again, there is no way to nail down 'PA'. It is and I'll say it again, 'whatever I feel is right at the time.' Which is a useless fortune cookie phrase to live by. By holding yourself to a shifting and useless ethical standard, you hold others to it. So your standard becomes the de facto standard you hold everyone else to and judge those that don't live up to it. 

Lies

9 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

You're gonna say, 'but i don't judge people.'

Wrong.  I judge everyone.

9 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

I will refer you to the anthem discussion where you are whining about others not doing a thing to your standard despite having no knowledge of your standard or caring at all about the imaginary effects it might have on you.

Let's be clear, I called you and anyone disrespectful of the anthem a jerk because they are jerkish jerks that jerkishly jerkoff to disrespecful jerks.

9 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

So you do judge people. 

I like this.  Some truth.  Keep going.

9 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

So you do judge people. So certain people are worthy in your eyes and some aren't. How are we to tell the difference? You can just say it. 'I don't like their lifestyle for x, y, or z and so I don't think they deserve aid or comfort for reasons a, b, or c .' At least you'd be honest, you won't have many friends, but you'll be honest.

I don't want the government taking my money to help people that do not want to be helped, and do not want the opportunity to help themself.  Whatever lifestyle those people are, I don't support my tax dollars going to them and I don't want to be their friend.  I don't want my money going to people with illegal activities or for activities that violate the golden rule, such as the people chanting "Death to America."  They only way they should get money from me is if I choose to give to them.  And sometimes I do...

9 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

Thus, people that need and could be helped will go without because self-righteous people can't stomach the idea of people that are 'less than' getting help out of the hole that, likely as not, our systems helped to put them in. 

More lies.  

9 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

This was the argument for filling public pools with concrete after segregation was torn down. 'If they are going to be able to use it then I'd rather no one have it.' 

Remind me again how this relates to my youth baseball team reflecting on how they can get better so that umpires do not determine the game's outcome?  How does this relate to PA?

How widespread was that view?  And I guess it was a good thing enough of those personally accountable self-rightous bible thumpers supported desegregation.

[JimmyBT]

It’s called controlling what you can control. 

[ThreePointTakedown]

10 hours ago, jross said:

What draws you to the sport and this forum?  Do know nothings and friends discuss analytics on fitness, flexibility, situational awareness, stress management, and using one's imagination.  Honest curiosity.  

 

Are you asking an 'honest question' starting off by saying that I am a 'know nothing'?

If so, do you understand how disingenuous that is? 

But to give you a legit honest answer, I like talking about wrestling and what's goin on in the world. Trying to convince people with moronic ideas that they are just that and would be better off changing their mind.  

[ThreePointTakedown]

9 hours ago, jross said:

The words are in the dictionary. 

Lies

Wrong.  I judge everyone.

Let's be clear, I called you and anyone disrespectful of the anthem a jerk because they are jerkish jerks that jerkishly jerkoff to disrespecful jerks.

I like this.  Some truth.  Keep going.

I don't want the government taking my money to help people that do not want to be helped, and do not want the opportunity to help themself.  Whatever lifestyle those people are, I don't support my tax dollars going to them and I don't want to be their friend.  I don't want my money going to people with illegal activities or for activities that violate the golden rule, such as the people chanting "Death to America."  They only way they should get money from me is if I choose to give to them.  And sometimes I do...

More lies.  

Remind me again how this relates to my youth baseball team reflecting on how they can get better so that umpires do not determine the game's outcome?  How does this relate to PA?

How widespread was that view?  And I guess it was a good thing enough of those personally accountable self-rightous bible thumpers supported desegregation.

The words are in the dictionary. Your definition is what’s important. It is not static and challenge you to prove otherwise.

Lies Now the burden of proof is on your claim. I can’t wait to see this if you have the gall to try.

Wrong.  I judge everyone. That surprises me, not at all. Small people with giant egos, judge others. That tracks.

Let's be clear, I called you and anyone disrespectful of the anthem a jerk because they are jerkish jerks that jerkishly jerkoff to disrespecful jerks. Yes, I was eluding to you, in fact, uselessly judging people. And it bothers you that no one cares about your opinion hence yelling at clouds.

I like this.  Some truth.  Keep going. HAHA, no humility. You ARE an example for the kids. Why shouldn’t we be more like you? Its turned out so well.

I don't want the government taking my money to help people that do not want to be helped(coming from someone with no knowledge of those they are judging, but quick to condemn those to suffer because they don’t live up to your made up standards, very charitable), and do not want the opportunity to help themselves(saw that coming, stuck in an outdated way of thinking, dead set on making people jump as high as you want before you’ll consider lending a hand, you are a horrible person that would rather watch it burn then to help anyone that doesn’t resemble you, there’s a word for that, I’ll bet you can guess and its not ‘conservative’ although it can be considered a synonym).  Whatever lifestyle those people are, I don't support my tax dollars going to them and I don't want to be their friend(when self-righteous judgmental bigots, like you, die, we’ll all be better off).  I don't want my money going to people with illegal activities or for activities that violate the golden rule, such as the people chanting "Death to America."  They only way they should get money from me is if I choose to give to them.  And sometimes I do...(I doubt that very much, keep throwing your temper tantrum, no one cares at this point)

More lies.  (everything you’ve said above this line betrays this comment, you absolutely fear what you don’t understand and don’t want to help anyone in those situations, not because you are informed but precisely because you are not or you would have a sense of compassion and sympathy, which you don’t, you’re ‘More lies’ is in fact a lie and I feel you’re just too scared to admit it because you’ve invested so much of yourself to the lie, tale as old as time)

Remind me again how this relates to my youth baseball team reflecting on how they can get better so that umpires do not determine the game's outcome?  How does this relate to PA?

How widespread was that view?  And I guess it was a good thing enough of those personally accountable self-rightous bible thumpers supported desegregation.

(stop coaching little league, stop having any influence on young people, your ideology and that’s what it is because it isn’t rooted in fact, is harmful to society as a whole, it fosters hate and fear and you should be ashamed to have some of the ideas that you do considering the wealth of knowledge that we have right now)

As fun as this was. This is where I'll leave you. 

[ThreePointTakedown]

10 hours ago, jross said:

Personal accountability is strongly needed to win and dominate a college wrestling match.  

Does being a weak, cowardly, ineffectual person create a sense of confidence and satisfaction?  Imagine someone steals your idea and project work.  They are recognized for your work and in line for a promotion.  Are you going to speak up?  Imagine this occurred to a collegue, you felt it was wrong, and did not speak up.  Imagine you are losing a wrestling match by one point with one minute left to go.  You refrain from attacking and time runs out with the same score on the board.  Imagine gassing out during a wrestling match and losing in the final seconds.

Again, you need to define your terms: weak, cowardly, ineffectual(not sure how this applies). 

Confidence can come from anywhere. You've probably seen people with confidence, or something that looks like it, that probably shouldn't for one reason or another, but they have it. That tends to bother people. They judge and deem them not worthy of that confidence. How does that effect you in any meaningful way? It doesn't. Leave them alone to live their lives. Why should they care about living up to your standard(that goes way beyond confidence btw, not sure you were going to put that together)?

Can you prove the theft? If not, that's on you, do better. If you can't prove it you are doing something that could be civilly actionable or fire-able. 

Losing a match, I've done that, twice. First, lost track of time. Second, I miss judged my opponent and lost out on opportunities to attack/score. They are just lessons learned in a sport that doesn't really matter to anyone outside of the community. Even to many in the community, they don't matter all that much.

Gassing out, what's the significance? Why should I care?

[jross]

2 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

Are you asking an 'honest question' starting off by saying that I am a 'know nothing'?

If so, do you understand how disingenuous that is? 

But to give you a legit honest answer, I like talking about wrestling and what's goin on in the world. Trying to convince people with moronic ideas that they are just that and would be better off changing their mind.  

This was an insider comment and nod to a member.

Wrestleknownothing posts analytics about who is going to be an all american and who will win.  He seems like a good guy other than that love for swimming.  

The point is that most everything discussed on the wrestling side relates to winning.  Who won the starting spot.  Who is the goat.  Who will be an all american.  Who will pin the most people.  Who sucks at coaching winners.  Who recruits the best winners.  What mindset does the winningess coach teach.  How much money will winners be paid to transfer schools to help that school win more.  The spladle sure was an embarrasing way to lose.  Wow his gas tank made him lose.  Wow look at how his motor helps him win.  He wins because he is aggressive.  How can that guy lose when he squats 600 pounds?  Can you believe that high school winner beat those college winners?  That winner is a character loser.  Etc, etc. winning is discussed around the water cooler.

Since you do no care about winning, what compells you to this particular wrestling forum?
 

Edited April 18 by jross
sp

[ThreePointTakedown]

1 hour ago, jross said:

If you are some multiple time state champion wrestler that holds the views you share, it would radically change my life.  Like DM me, call me, let's flush this out. 

Based on my life experiences, you talk like someone who joined the wrestling team and quit when the going got tough.  Since your earlier comments context was with kids wrestling within a mostly college++ forum, perhaps you didn't wrestle beyond a single high school season.  Your record might be 0-2 for your career.  This is the perception put to the anonymous public.
 

They are my opinions. They can stand or fall on their own. That you need them to come from a 'successful' participant tells me more than I need to know about how you form your opinions. 

[ThreePointTakedown]

2 hours ago, jross said:

This was an insider comment and nod to a member.

Wrestleknownothing posts analytics about who is going to be an all american and who will win.  He seems like a good guy other than that love for swimming.  

The point is that most everything discussed on the wrestling side relates to winning.  Who won the starting spot.  Who is the goat.  Who will be an all american.  Who will pin the most people.  Who sucks at coaching winners.  Who recruits the best winners.  What mindset does the winningess coach teach.  How much money will winners be paid to transfer schools to help that school win more.  The spladle sure was an embarrasing way to lose.  Wow his gas tank made him lose.  Wow look at how his motor helps him win.  He wins because he is aggressive.  How can that guy lose when he squats 600 pounds?  Can you believe that high school winner beat those college winners?  That winner is a character loser.  Etc, etc. winning is discussed around the water cooler.

Since you do no care about winning, what compells you to this particular wrestling forum?
 

Conversations.

Good, better, best is always something we should strive for even if others seem to be better at it. Thinking above all. Can't get very far if you don't do that well. 

I would like to help influence as many people towards my, perceived, better way of approaching things, because I think it could do some good. If its not better then I'd like to know what is.  

[JimmyBT]

1 hour ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

They are my opinions. They can stand or fall on their own. That you need them to come from a 'successful' participant tells me more than I need to know about how you form your opinions. 

Speaking of moronic ideas.  You’re all over it.   

[JimmyBT]

1 hour ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

Conversations.

Good, better, best is always something we should strive for even if others seem to be better at it. Thinking above all. Can't get very far if you don't do that well. 

I would like to help influence as many people towards my, perceived, better way of approaching things, because I think it could do some good. If its not better then I'd like to know what is.  

The untactful way you go about it will never allow you to influence anyone unless they’re already brainwashed the way you want them to be.  

[ThreePointTakedown]

25 minutes ago, JimmyBT said:

Speaking of moronic ideas.  You’re all over it.   

Care to offer a rebuttal? 

[jross]

2 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

They are my opinions. They can stand or fall on their own. That you need them to come from a 'successful' participant tells me more than I need to know about how you form your opinions. 

If you are taking real-world action on address systemic issues and supporting those in need, congratulations, you believe in personal accountability and are doing so by example.  And if you are someone who takes action, there are near-zero odds that you linked up to this wrestling forum without caring about who wins a wrestling match. 

If you speaks words and pay taxes only, then you are a paper tiger that still has near-zero odds that you linked up to this wrestling forum without caring about who wins a wrestling match.  Your member name implies you know how winners win...

Your actions betray your words.

I don't care if you won a wrestling match for general discussion.  It is outlandish to discredit the idea that winners win due to their personal accountability.  I won plenty of matches and those that I lost are all due to having been outdone by someone who wanted it more than me, who had more personal accountability than me.  Most everyone who has success talks about PA.

Edited April 18 by jross

[JimmyBT]

6 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

Care to offer a rebuttal? 

No need.   It’s all there for all of us to see. 

Edited April 19 by JimmyBT

[ThreePointTakedown]

15 hours ago, jross said:

If you are taking real-world action on address systemic issues and supporting those in need, congratulations, you believe in personal accountability and are doing so by example.  And if you are someone who takes action, there are near-zero odds that you linked up to this wrestling forum without caring about who wins a wrestling match. 

If you speaks words and pay taxes only, then you are a paper tiger that still has near-zero odds that you linked up to this wrestling forum without caring about who wins a wrestling match.  Your member name implies you know how winners win...

Your actions betray your words.

I don't care if you won a wrestling match for general discussion.  It is outlandish to discredit the idea that winners win due to their personal accountability.  I won plenty of matches and those that I lost are all due to having been outdone by someone who wanted it more than me, who had more personal accountability than me.  Most everyone who has success talks about PA.

Ok. Last comment on this. My name would suggest that a take down is worth three points. Whatever else you read into is your implicit bias. You should look that up because its effecting much more than you realize. 

Second. It seems as if you are under the impression that PA is not something I can appreciate as a desirable characteristic. That is wrong. My disagreement began when it seemed that you were trying to determine if people in need had used PA enough or to your satisfaction before their need for help was even taken into account. 

If you believe that the slightest bit of PA would qualify someone to receive much needed aid then I'm on your side. If you are in favor of holding back assistance until someone reaches your predetermined threshold of PA before allowing someone to get aid, then we have a problem. 

Maybe this was all just a... misunderstanding. 

[jross]

On 4/19/2024 at 7:04 AM, ThreePointTakedown said:

Second. It seems as if you are under the impression that PA is not something I can appreciate as a desirable characteristic. That is wrong.

How many times did you try to make the conversation about blame, justice, nuance?  How often did you meaningfully engage on how accountability matters?  Conversely, the village was acknowledged on page 1, page 2...  Evasion, deflection, arguing to argue is partially why your posts are clowned.

[neutral]

Take a break from the forum, and I see I didn't miss much.  JRoss still wanting to dictate how others live?  Why do you care so much how or if someone stands for a jingoistic anthem?  It is just a song. 

[jross]

3 hours ago, Don't Feed Neutral said:

Take a break from the forum, and I see I didn't miss much.  JRoss still wanting to dictate how others live?  Why do you care so much how or if someone stands for a jingoistic anthem?  It is just a song. 

You're right on target. Trolls are still causing disruptions with their misinformation and provocations, and it's still a struggle to guide them towards expressing informed opinions, on point, rooted in context, research, logic, facts, and honesty. 

Follow the law and follow the golden rule is the beginning and end of my authoritarian wish.  I'm not authoritarian... unlike those that support controlling media, surveillance, elections, censorship, covid mandates... I use my freedom of speech when referring to anthem protestors as jerks and I extend the uncommon courtesy to explain my reasoning.

There is some news... an imposter member was added to the ignore list.   

 

Edited April 21 by jross

[ThreePointTakedown]

22 hours ago, jross said:

How many times did you try to make the conversation about blame, justice, nuance?  How often did you meaningfully engage on how accountability matters?  Conversely, the village was acknowledged on page 1, page 2...  Evasion, deflection, arguing to argue is partially why your posts are clowned.

If you can quote me using the word blame or implying it, I'll concede. And yes, your system is not justice and it does not take nuance into account. Again its a blanket statement that you use to make yourself feel better for not liking or helping certain people for certain reasons that you don't want to say out loud.