Poaching or Portal?

[Southend]

Ok I apologize. I meant. Explain yourself 

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

1 hour ago, Idaho said:

 

If we are talking about the whole sport of NCAA wrestling being financially independent that would require revenue sharing and that's not happening. No way is PSU , MIchigan and Iowa going to share with Cal Bakersfield to keep the sport as whole financially independent.  It comes down to teams being financially independent or dying on the vine...and that's what has and will happen. Back to square one. 

I don’t know why all programs wouldn’t want to help each other in terms of longevity, but I fear you are right.

 

I have a feeling Cael would cut 76!programs as long as there was still one program for them to beat and become national champions. 

[Offthemat]

1 hour ago, BlueWolverine said:

It's because those are the only programs with rolling grad school admissions. Most offseason transfers have already missed other grad program deadlines. A lot of student-athlete grad transfers into Michigan are in those programs.

So they are enrolling in whatever program is available rather than seeking a specific discipline?  

[Idaho]

1 hour ago, Paul158 said:

I think most would prefer to stay if they were offered an equal amount of money that is being offered from the school that is poaching them.

Well that's the problem - they can't.

1 hour ago, BlueWolverine said:

It's because those are the only programs with rolling grad school admissions. Most offseason transfers have already missed other grad program deadlines. A lot of student-athlete grad transfers into Michigan are in those programs.

Let's be honest and call it what it is... easy grad programs that anyone can get into for an extra year of eligibility with no intention of staying a second year to finish. 

[WrestlingFan89]

1 hour ago, creek chub said:

I didn’t say that others couldn’t poach. The rub is, it looks like it’s mainly 3 schools, so most aren’t using this approach and instead are developing their room. That’s what coaches are supposed to do, not rely on 3rd parties to overinflate their programs output 

I think it’s 5 schools, Iowa State and Oklahoma State are players too.

[ionel]

13 minutes ago, WrestlingFan89 said:

I think it’s 5 schools, Iowa State and Oklahoma State are players too.

Poaching?  Who did they poach?

[WrestlingFan89]

3 minutes ago, ionel said:

Poaching?  Who did they poach?

I’ve heard that there may have been some proxy’s reach out to Spratley and Jamison.  Would that surprise you?

[ionel]

2 minutes ago, WrestlingFan89 said:

I’ve heard that there may have been some proxy’s reach out to Spratley and Jamison.  Would that surprise you?

Spratley & Jamison are from Oklahoma and they weren't in the lineup at Minnesota.  Kindve like Smith letting Wittlake go back to Oregon.  And if thinking Olejnik, he had been at Northern IL for 5 years had no more eligibility there. 

[GoGopher]

100% poaching involved with Spratley and Jamison. OKST got in the ears of their club coach before either even considered portal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jackwebster]

5 hours ago, ionel said:

Spratley & Jamison are from Oklahoma.

This is the biggest self-own of all time. 

Spratley is from Eufala. Ever been to Eufala? It's a place where McAllister is the Big City. That dude got out. No way he's coming back without a little push. 

(Only half kidding)

[1032004]

6 hours ago, ionel said:

Spratley & Jamison are from Oklahoma and they weren't in the lineup at Minnesota.  Kindve like Smith letting Wittlake go back to Oregon.  And if thinking Olejnik, he had been at Northern IL for 5 years had no more eligibility there. 

Uh, Northern Illinois isn’t an Ivy.  He still had eligibility, but I’m sure he had graduated;

[MidwestMan]

8 hours ago, Idaho said:

"It comes down to teams being financially independent or dying on the vine...and that's what has and will happen. Back to square one."

As I have stated somewhere in another post, probably whining about Mizzou's end of the season performance. I should give more credit to Smith for building the program to a point that it is relevant and recognized in Missouri, thus not dropped when Missouri moved to the SEC.  I so wanted an invite to the Big 10.  It's also why I worry every time Missouri hires a new AD.  Smith has a good working relationship with the other Zou coaches and is respected in the Columbia community.  He's been there 25+ years, raised family there, laid roots.  What happens if wrestling at Missouri becomes mediocre again?  I could never see Brian Smith poaching wrestlers to strengthen his lineup because he is more loyal to his kids, regardless of the Whiting/Hawks swap at the end of the season.  As a fan, I'd love to see some roster "mercs" to compete with the big guns.  As a former coach, I respect his loyalty.  We talk about Mizzou wrestling in the state now, not so much 30 years ago.  One positive of being in the SEC is "mo money!"  Just leave wrestling alone. 

[1032004]

8 hours ago, BlueWolverine said:

It's because those are the only programs with rolling grad school admissions. Most offseason transfers have already missed other grad program deadlines. A lot of student-athlete grad transfers into Michigan are in those programs.

Cornell Ag school 2.0 confirmed.  

[boconnell]

11 hours ago, Hillbilly Jim said:

I am no college sports expert so Help me understand your point.  I hate nil and how stars from small and medium will get poached.  I hope Michigan’s model crashes and burns somehow.  But if I am the AD at Little Rock and Nasir Bailey leaves—why will I cut the program?  I may not like it…but the program costs the same as it did before Bailey came there.  Most of these programs have no expectation of beating the power schools—same as all sports.  In fact, wrestling offers them a better chance to get an AA than say basketball does.  Don’t laugh at me if I am missing the obvious—just sincerely asking why nil will cause programs to be cut?  
I ask because we the wrestling community are rightfully angered by what Title ix did to wrestling.  But when we scream about how we expect wrestling programs getting cut all the time, I think it almost gives AD’s the go ahead and do it.  It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.  So I am not apt to scream about the sky falling for reasons that maybe isn’t the cause unless I can understand why.  And again, we agree—nil does suck.

Little Rock is supported by one large donor.  Success does matter to him.  It matters to all donors at all schools.  Most wrestling programs are not supported by revenue, but rather by fund raising.  When all of the best wrestlers leave a program, it will absolutely effect fund raising.  And while an AD won't care about fewer individual all americans, they will absolutely care about less fund raising.

[Idaho]

1 minute ago, boconnell said:

Little Rock is supported by one large donor.  Success does matter to him.  It matters to all donors at all schools.  Most wrestling programs are not supported by revenue, but rather by fund raising.  When all of the best wrestlers leave a program, it will absolutely effect fund raising.  And while an AD won't care about fewer individual all americans, they will absolutely care about less fund raising.

Agree....and it has more substantial effects on smaller programs with a smaller donor base.  There is excitement in success and I have seen donations rise and fall based on that. Lose your star/s and it's like going back to rebuild again. 

[Idaho]

2 hours ago, MidwestMan said:

As I have stated somewhere in another post, probably whining about Mizzou's end of the season performance. I should give more credit to Smith for building the program to a point that it is relevant and recognized in Missouri, thus not dropped when Missouri moved to the SEC.  I so wanted an invite to the Big 10.  It's also why I worry every time Missouri hires a new AD.  Smith has a good working relationship with the other Zou coaches and is respected in the Columbia community.  He's been there 25+ years, raised family there, laid roots.  What happens if wrestling at Missouri becomes mediocre again?  I could never see Brian Smith poaching wrestlers to strengthen his lineup because he is more loyal to his kids, regardless of the Whiting/Hawks swap at the end of the season.  As a fan, I'd love to see some roster "mercs" to compete with the big guns.  As a former coach, I respect his loyalty.  We talk about Mizzou wrestling in the state now, not so much 30 years ago.  One positive of being in the SEC is "mo money!"  Just leave wrestling alone. 

As a side note, a local HS has built a relationship with MIzzou and has brought them out for a camp the last 3 summers I think. They do all kinds of fun stuff with the team when they host them. 

Smith has done a good job out there with that program...I actually wish we would see them bring it all together at the end more often. 

[MidwestMan]

1 minute ago, Idaho said:

As a side note, a local HS has built a relationship with MIzzou and has brought them out for a camp the last 3 summers I think. They do all kinds of fun stuff with the team when they host them. 

Smith has done a good job out there with that program...I actually wish we would see them bring it all together at the end more often. 

There is no doubt in my mind that coach Smith builds a strong "team family" and always considers the "person" before the "athlete!"  I just get frustrated with the lack of "nasty/gritty" that may be a reflection of my personality.  I go to the duals and it seems like there is no emotion or sense of urgency on the bench, or with the team on the sideline.  Where as, Okie State, Ia State, Northern Ia, VT, their bench was absolutely "fired up!"  We lose a match in overtime and it's like "ah shucks!"  I truly believe a team takes on the personality of their coach.  Coach Smith has resurrected Mizzou wrestling, just wish the kids were a little less "Tigerstyle" boyscouts and more Keckeisen/Swiderski nasty/aggressive on the mat.  Maybe next year!

[boconnell]

1 hour ago, MidwestMan said:

There is no doubt in my mind that coach Smith builds a strong "team family" and always considers the "person" before the "athlete!"  I just get frustrated with the lack of "nasty/gritty" that may be a reflection of my personality.  I go to the duals and it seems like there is no emotion or sense of urgency on the bench, or with the team on the sideline.  Where as, Okie State, Ia State, Northern Ia, VT, their bench was absolutely "fired up!"  We lose a match in overtime and it's like "ah shucks!"  I truly believe a team takes on the personality of their coach.  Coach Smith has resurrected Mizzou wrestling, just wish the kids were a little less "Tigerstyle" boyscouts and more Keckeisen/Swiderski nasty/aggressive on the mat.  Maybe next year!

You make some great points here about personality in wrestling.  Keckeisen really is the ideal personality.  He's incredibly physical and mean on the mat, but he's the same guy who after the semis last year said he didn't attack injured Munoz because he was winning and didn't need to.  He's like a boyscout with a mean streak.  Swiderski is just a jerk, and a wrestling team absolutely needs those.  I wish the HS team I coach had a few Swiderskis.  

[ionel]

4 hours ago, jackwebster said:

This is the biggest self-own of all time. 

Spratley is from Eufala. Ever been to Eufala? It's a place where McAllister is the Big City. That dude got out. No way he's coming back without a little push. 

(Only half kidding)

Yes I've been to Eufaula its also not far from Muskogee believe someone wrote a song about it must be a nice place.  I've also been to St Paul, they only have two seasons: winter and construction season. 

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

10 hours ago, WrestlingFan89 said:

I’ve heard that there may have been some proxy’s reach out to Spratley and Jamison.  Would that surprise you?

I had a friend that was graduated but had a year of eligibility and was contacted by a (freshman, as of last year) wrestler at okie state. Said “blah blah blah wrestling is king here, blah blah blah we have $100k for you if you come”

such a weird time for college athletics 

 

  

[NM1965]

4 hours ago, jackwebster said:

This is the biggest self-own of all time. 

Spratley is from Eufala. Ever been to Eufala? It's a place where McAllister is the Big City. That dude got out. No way he's coming back without a little push. 

(Only half kidding)

Eufala had a rotten wrestling program back in the 80s. I remember that seeing a Eufala guy on your schedule meant instant "W"

[NM1965]

4 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Uh, Northern Illinois isn’t an Ivy.  He still had eligibility, but I’m sure he had graduated;

Northern Illinois is the "Ivy of the Plains". 

[Gantry]

4 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Uh, Northern Illinois isn’t an Ivy.  He still had eligibility, but I’m sure he had graduated;

As an alum of Northern Illinois, this offends me.  We aren't called the Harvard of Dekalb County for nothing!

[ionel]

2 minutes ago, NM1965 said:

Eufala had a rotten wrestling program back in the 80s. I remember that seeing a Eufala guy on your schedule meant instant "W"

Never heard of the place, Wisconsin? 

[jackwebster]

32 minutes ago, ionel said:

Yes I've been to Eufaula its also not far from Muskogee believe someone wrote a song about it must be a nice place.  I've also been to St Paul, they only have two seasons: winter and construction season. 

I was born at Muskogee General Hospital. My mom went to school with JC Watts. My dad taught and coached there.