Dogbone Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 No one has said that Cael is solely responsible for anything. It's called an example. This is NCAA week! For a fanbase that is hours away from dominating the NCAA tourney and potentially breaking the all time scoring record, you would think you would be in a better mood. Hopefully you guys can break away from the thought that someone has said something negative toward Cael (oh the horror, boo hoo) to enjoy some wrestling. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerDurden Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 23 minutes ago, Eagle26 said: Guys, his point is about how a known injury blows up the bracket at conferences and he believes the right thing to do would be let the coaches know and seed Starocci last. It’s not that he thinks Wilson deserved a wild card, but he probably thinks he deserves to be at nationals more than Baumann, the Purdue freshman with an 12-14 record does. Baumann got a forfeit from Starocci to get to the top 8 which qualified him for NCAAs. I don’t see how any can argue that is indicative of getting the best guys to NCAAs (as should be our goal). It was simply luck of the draw to hit a bye on the backside. If Carter is not seeded that high, someone will still get a bye, but would have to win their next match to get into the top 8. Thus allowing the wrestlers to “earn it” (and there’s a very good chance Wilson does if this is the case) He can think whatever he wants, but Baumann beat Wilson in the dual, 7-2. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHROMEBIRD Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 I think the point people are missing is that Manning needs to update his Twitter profile pic 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swoopdown Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 35 minutes ago, jajensen09 said: He's a big reason for it. Wrestling "the best" wrestlers in the country 15 times a year is ridiculous. How will the average fan ever take interest in that. Shockingly, Carter and his 15 matches did manage to keep my interest. Go over to the freestyle forum and you hear complaints that wrestlers' bodies are being worn down and wrecked because of the grind of college wrestling seasons. What is the right number of matches during a season (dual + tourney)? How long should a college season be? As a greedly wrestling fan I'd love to see a ton more matches with only the best, but I'm beginning to think that Cael may know more about his athlete's welfare, wrestling in general and getting his team to peak performance than me. Cael seems to have landed on a number that is more focused on the athlete than the fan. Not sure that sacrificing the bodies of athletes on the alter of "growing the sport" is the right direction. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhs67 Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 2 hours ago, jammen said: As had #33 Valencia (11-13), #32 Bauman (12-14), #29 Faison (13-12), #28 Simma (15-9), and #24 Sparks (10-7). #30 Takats got in on the strength of his 24-14 record, but notably lost to Husker backups Minto and Thebeau. Note that Sparks got in because of Starocci's inj def. He lost three straight after that. Three of his 10 wins are against teammates. He didn't wrestle in the Minny-Husker dual. Wilson (16-12) went 3-2 at the B1G and finished 9th. He beat qualifers Simma and Valencia during the season. It's clear that the seeding process needs a complete overhaul. Valencia and Faison got at-large bids? Bauman did, too? Missed that. "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle26 Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 52 minutes ago, NM1965 said: Manning's point is weak sauce though. It doesn't matter than Baumann qualified and Wilson didn't, each would probably lose in R24 anyway or R16 at best. Manning is bitching because he'll miss the 2 or 3 points Wilson might've scored for him at NCAAs, and that's assuming he won a couple matches. He has a point about Baumann getting an easier road because Starocci was seeded #1 and sat out, but PSU isn't breaking any rules and he knows it. Plus should a guy who couldn't even finish higher than 9th in his own conference even get a bid to the NCAAs anyway? I mean, that's piss poor, I don't care how good the conference is, and yeah, I know there are 9th placers in the Big 10 that could beat conference champs in some conferences, but still, 9th place sucks balls. 9th place in the Big Ten is in the top 1% of all wrestlers so I don’t think it’s fair to say it “sucks balls” Being a national qualifier is a HUGE honor for most wrestlers. Maybe Manning cares about one of his wrestlers missing out on their goal more than he cares about a few team points. Or maybe Nebraska is only a point or two away from 2nd place or 4th place or whatever. It is a big deal when you pour your heart and soul into something 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle26 Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 52 minutes ago, TylerDurden said: He can think whatever he wants, but Baumann beat Wilson in the dual, 7-2. Didn’t realize that lol but I think he still has a valid point. Nobody wants to see someone get a forfeit to qualify for nationals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortaJohn Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 58 minutes ago, Dogbone said: No one has said that Cael is solely responsible for anything. It's called an example. This is NCAA week! For a fanbase that is hours away from dominating the NCAA tourney and potentially breaking the all time scoring record, you would think you would be in a better mood. Hopefully you guys can break away from the thought that someone has said something negative toward Cael (oh the horror, boo hoo) to enjoy some wrestling. Well, I think this settles the debate. Mark Manning is a whiny bitch. 1 I Don't Agree With What I Posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinnacle Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 3 hours ago, Dogbone said: How is injury defaulting using the #1 seed? I'm sorry the article you just read didn't provide you with a question you are now demanding. Manning raised an issue in his tweets, a writer asked him about it to clarify it and then wrote an article. Maybe the author of the article should of asked for a proposal knowing this would be required by someone who thinks injuring defaulting is using the #1 seed, you will have to take it up with the author. One, an injury default only occurs when you take the mat. It is a loss. You can't take a loss without actually taking the mat. Two, Manning is railing on someone for playing within the rules, not outside of them. He further does so without providing any meaningful insight on what he wants done. In other words, he's just a whiner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinnacle Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 3 hours ago, Eagle26 said: Guys, his point is about how a known injury blows up the bracket at conferences and he believes the right thing to do would be let the coaches know and seed Starocci last. It’s not that he thinks Wilson deserved a wild card, but he probably thinks he deserves to be at nationals more than Baumann, the Purdue freshman with an 12-14 record does. Baumann got a forfeit from Starocci to get to the top 8 which qualified him for NCAAs. I don’t see how any can argue that is indicative of getting the best guys to NCAAs (as should be our goal). It was simply luck of the draw to hit a bye on the backside. If Carter is not seeded that high, someone will still get a bye, but would have to win their next match to get into the top 8. Thus allowing the wrestlers to “earn it” (and there’s a very good chance Wilson does if this is the case) Would not seeding Starocci last at BigTens bring about essentially the same result as seeding him 9th at NCAAs? If he is last at Bigs AND THEN WRESTLES and advances and then beats the wrestler seeded 1rst the complaints we saw about him being seeded 9th at NCAAs and drawing Mehki would have been made one tournament earlier. There is no perfect solution, just the routine complaints about unfairness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajensen09 Posted March 19 Author Share Posted March 19 6 minutes ago, Pinnacle said: Would not seeding Starocci last at BigTens bring about essentially the same result as seeding him 9th at NCAAs? If he is last at Bigs AND THEN WRESTLES and advances and then beats the wrestler seeded 1rst the complaints we saw about him being seeded 9th at NCAAs and drawing Mehki would have been made one tournament earlier. There is no perfect solution, just the routine complaints about unfairness. They knew he WASNT going to wrestle, that's the point 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogbone Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 14 minutes ago, Pinnacle said: One, an injury default only occurs when you take the mat. It is a loss. You can't take a loss without actually taking the mat. Two, Manning is railing on someone for playing within the rules, not outside of them. He further does so without providing any meaningful insight on what he wants done. In other words, he's just a whiner. 1) you only described what an injury default was, everyone knows he took the mat and a loss. That wasn't the question. 2) you don't know that hasn't or won't occur, it just wasn't in the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogbone Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Pinnacle said: Would not seeding Starocci last at BigTens bring about essentially the same result as seeding him 9th at NCAAs? If he is last at Bigs AND THEN WRESTLES and advances and then beats the wrestler seeded 1rst the complaints we saw about him being seeded 9th at NCAAs and drawing Mehki would have been made one tournament earlier. There is no perfect solution, just the routine complaints about unfairness. There is a difference between the qualifier and the NCAA tourney. If he has plans to wrestle then he should be seeded 1st. Edited March 19 by Dogbone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 4 minutes ago, jajensen09 said: They knew he WASNT going to wrestle, that's the point Carter Starocci's own actions would suggest otherwise, but so what? Starocci earned the #1 seed, Wilson earned the #12 seed. Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle26 Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 27 minutes ago, Pinnacle said: Would not seeding Starocci last at BigTens bring about essentially the same result as seeding him 9th at NCAAs? If he is last at Bigs AND THEN WRESTLES and advances and then beats the wrestler seeded 1rst the complaints we saw about him being seeded 9th at NCAAs and drawing Mehki would have been made one tournament earlier. There is no perfect solution, just the routine complaints about unfairness. I’m only saying to seed him last if he is not wrestling. In your scenario, the coaches would have to tell them to seed him last because he’s not wrestling and then have him wrestle anyway. That’s incredibly dishonest and I would hope no coach would do that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul158 Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 2 hours ago, swoopdown said: Shockingly, Carter and his 15 matches did manage to keep my interest. Go over to the freestyle forum and you hear complaints that wrestlers' bodies are being worn down and wrecked because of the grind of college wrestling seasons. What is the right number of matches during a season (dual + tourney)? How long should a college season be? As a greedly wrestling fan I'd love to see a ton more matches with only the best, but I'm beginning to think that Cael may know more about his athlete's welfare, wrestling in general and getting his team to peak performance than me. Cael seems to have landed on a number that is more focused on the athlete than the fan. Not sure that sacrificing the bodies of athletes on the alter of "growing the sport" is the right direction. Nice job . Well said. Its all about staying healthy and peaking at the NCAA's. Period. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 Attention: Mark Manning: When I clicked on the link I was surprised it did not take me to Twitter. 3 Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 12 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said: Attention: Mark Manning: When I clicked on the link I was surprised it did not take me to Twitter. Twitter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinnacle Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 44 minutes ago, Eagle26 said: I’m only saying to seed him last if he is not wrestling. In your scenario, the coaches would have to tell them to seed him last because he’s not wrestling and then have him wrestle anyway. That’s incredibly dishonest and I would hope no coach would do that But how do you handle a situation like Starocci that is fluid. Seems patently obvious Starocci wanted to wrestle and Cael did not think it was a good idea. When there are several days between seeding and the tournament then **** like this is going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NM1965 Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 3 hours ago, Eagle26 said: 9th place in the Big Ten is in the top 1% of all wrestlers so I don’t think it’s fair to say it “sucks balls” Being a national qualifier is a HUGE honor for most wrestlers. Maybe Manning cares about one of his wrestlers missing out on their goal more than he cares about a few team points. Or maybe Nebraska is only a point or two away from 2nd place or 4th place or whatever. It is a big deal when you pour your heart and soul into something Yeah, I know. Big 10 is that good. Still, I find it very hard to feel sorry for a guy who went 16-12 and finished 9th not making it to NCAAs. I hope the kid is feeling alright though, I'm sure he'll make the trip and hang out with the team. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle26 Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 39 minutes ago, Pinnacle said: But how do you handle a situation like Starocci that is fluid. Seems patently obvious Starocci wanted to wrestle and Cael did not think it was a good idea. When there are several days between seeding and the tournament then **** like this is going to happen. Yeah that would be tough in some situations, but in this particular case, I honestly don’t think for second Cael had any intention of letting Carter wrestle. I think he just let Carter believe he had a chance to wrestle so he didn’t blow up about it sooner. That’s pure speculation, but I’d bet that’s the case. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 4 hours ago, swoopdown said: Shockingly, Carter and his 15 matches did manage to keep my interest. Go over to the freestyle forum and you hear complaints that wrestlers' bodies are being worn down and wrecked because of the grind of college wrestling seasons. What is the right number of matches during a season (dual + tourney)? How long should a college season be? As a greedly wrestling fan I'd love to see a ton more matches with only the best, but I'm beginning to think that Cael may know more about his athlete's welfare, wrestling in general and getting his team to peak performance than me. Cael seems to have landed on a number that is more focused on the athlete than the fan. Not sure that sacrificing the bodies of athletes on the alter of "growing the sport" is the right direction. How many matches did Cael have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 4 hours ago, nhs67 said: Valencia and Faison got at-large bids? Bauman did, too? Missed that. As an NC State fan, I was extremely surprised to see Faison in the bracket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NM1965 Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 43 minutes ago, Pinnacle said: But how do you handle a situation like Starocci that is fluid. Seems patently obvious Starocci wanted to wrestle and Cael did not think it was a good idea. When there are several days between seeding and the tournament then **** like this is going to happen. Cael knows what he's doing and he's the one that calls the shots. I have little doubt that Starocci probably wanted to wrestle last weekend. Who wouldn't want a Big 10 medal? They are very cool and all wrestlers love bling. But Cael knew he could get Starocci another week to recover and still make it into NCAAs. Cael wasn't worried about a poor seed either. Let's face it, Starocci is going to smoke everybody he wrestles if he's healthy and it doesn't matter what seed he is. Plus Cael is seemingly acting with caution out of concern for his guy, and you can't fault a guy for that. I get that Starocci, seemingly, is annoyed but that's what happens when you tweak a leg. He's got a chance to take out his annoyance on the mat this week. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingcement Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 the saying "call a spade a spade" goes back to ancient Greece apparently. wonder if its the oldest saying we still use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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