Notable "ducks" that may have had consequences

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

A lot of Daton Fix haters are bringing up the 'fact' that he ducked Crooham in the dual and was rewarded with the #1 seed for it.  Many have suggeted that because the Lehigh Mountain Hawk towed the line that day, that he should have been the top seed.  Let it be known that Daton is my least favorite World Team member since PD3, but I do not believe that he was specifically ducking Crooham.  John Smith generally seems to put his best lineup on the mat, if healthy.  Fix was also going through a period where we were told he was hurt and he missed a number of dates.

Many of the same people who whine about the Fix duck whine about "1x national qualifier" Kai Orine being given the 3rd seed, while "returning national champ" Vito is the 6th.  Do these people realize that Vito had two chances to wrestle Orine and did not toe the line in either match?  CKLV and the dual (which I predicted months ahead of time.)  Vito may indeed beat Orine next weekend, but don't complain about his seed vs. Orine's.  He had his opportunities.

How about Carter?  He made the trip to Michigan and did not wrestle Griffith.  Carter said he was plagued by something and was being smart whereas in the past, he probably would have wrestled the bout.  Some people yelled "duck" but others talked about Carter's second bout of flu this season.  Notably, he looked a bit "off" when he returned to action, so this is possible.  I do not think Carter fears Griffith whatsoever, and would have been a big favorite, especially given how Shane looked that night.  Still, limited team members are allowed to make road trips, and he was on that trip.  He couldn't have been sick, because he was healthy enough to associate with teammates.  This is not bashing Carter, but it certainly would have helped his need if he toed the line with the Sugared one that night.

Any other similar situation out there that relate to this year's seeds?

 

Edited March 16 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[NM1965]

My two cents probably is worth about that much, but here's my opinion. I think "duck" matches are a bane to the sport from a fan's perspective. Of course we all want to see premium matches ike Starocci/Griffith or Fix/Crookham, but we're being selfish aren't we? Crookham has never wrestled Fix before and has rapidly improved in the last year. Fix is about the same as he was last year prior to NCAAs.  Why should John Smith let Crookham test himself against Fix at this point? Fix is a tricky guy to beat and Crookham probably has never wrestled anybody exactly like Fix before. The less experience the rapidly improving Crookham gets against Fix, the better from John Smith's perspective. OSU only get's Fix's points at NCAAs one more time. I certainly like Fix's chances better without Crookham having experience against him. 

Regarding Griffith/Starocci, Griffith barely beat PSU's 2nd team guy, Barraclough. Barraclough is AA strength though (in my opinion). I can understand a coach holding out guys in dual meets, especially when a team is so superior to the other that you can put in one of your reserves to get a little mat time. Perhaps Cael didn't see the point of Griffith/Starocci for one reason or another but saw a lot of upside for one of his better reserves to get a some Big 10 experience agaisnt a tough opponent. I know if I was a coach with a great wrestling team that I'd be putting in some reserves whenever I had the opportunity, that would help keep the wear and tear of the starters down until the important tournaments at the end of the year and get more experience for reserves, especially ones destined to be starters next season. 

Probably most of the time the wrestlers actually want to wrestle the other guy and sometimes maybe they are a little too brave for their own good, and the coaches are protecting them by making them sit (unlikely, most wrestling coaches are sadists). Sometimes it's probably for seeding purposes, sure, but I doubt the wrestlers are making the call in those situations. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

9 minutes ago, NM1965 said:

My two cents probably is worth about that much, but here's my opinion. I think "duck" matches are a bane to the sport from a fan's perspective. Of course we all want to see premium matches ike Starocci/Griffith or Fix/Crookham, but we're being selfish aren't we? Crookham has never wrestled Fix before and has rapidly improved in the last year. Fix is about the same as he was last year prior to NCAAs.  Why should John Smith let Crookham test himself against Fix at this point? Fix is a tricky guy to beat and Crookham probably has never wrestled anybody exactly like Fix before. The less experience the rapidly improving Crookham gets against Fix, the better from John Smith's perspective. OSU only get's Fix's points at NCAAs one more time. I certainly like Fix's chances better without Crookham having experience against him. 

Regarding Griffith/Starocci, Griffith barely beat PSU's 2nd team guy, Barraclough. Barraclough is AA strength though (in my opinion). I can understand a coach holding out guys in dual meets, especially when a team is so superior to the other that you can put in one of your reserves to get a little mat time. Perhaps Cael didn't see the point of Griffith/Starocci for one reason or another but saw a lot of upside for one of his better reserves to get a some Big 10 experience agaisnt a tough opponent. I know if I was a coach with a great wrestling team that I'd be putting in some reserves whenever I had the opportunity, that would help keep the wear and tear of the starters down until the important tournaments at the end of the year and get more experience for reserves, especially ones destined to be starters next season. 

Probably most of the time the wrestlers actually want to wrestle the other guy and sometimes maybe they are a little too brave for their own good, and the coaches are protecting them by making them sit (unlikely, most wrestling coaches are sadists). Sometimes it's probably for seeding purposes, sure, but I doubt the wrestlers are making the call in those situations. 

Thanks for the input.  Carter was chosen to make the trip and made it sound like it was his call.  Perhaps his core temperature was slightly elevated?  As we were reminded in Michigan vs. tOSU, the NCAA limits the number of individuals who travel.  Now Carter's seeding Matrix is suffering.  Never fear, though! A guy who has wrestled exactly 38 matches over the last two years has now volunteered to wrestle all 32 other competitors one at a time next weekend!

[NM1965]

12 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Thanks for the input.  Carter was chosen to make the trip and made it sound like it was his call.  Perhaps his core temperature was slightly elevated?  As we were reminded in Michigan vs. tOSU, the NCAA limits the number of individuals who travel.  Now Carter's seeding Matrix is suffering.  Never fear, though! A guy who has wrestled exactly 38 matches over the last two years has now volunteered to wrestle all 32 other competitors one at a time next weekend!

We all know he's going to bonus everybody at NCAAs

[BigRedFan]

1 hour ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

 

Many of the same people who whine about the Fix duck whine about "1x national qualifier" Kai Orine being given the 3rd seed, while "returning national champ" Vito is the 6th.  Do these people realize that Vito had two chances to wrestle Orine and did not toe the line in either match?  CKLV and the dual (which I predicted months ahead of time.)  Vito may indeed beat Orine next weekend, but don't complain about his seed vs. Orine's.  He had his opportunities.

 

Give it a rest, already.  Vito has been and still is injured (more seriously than people realize) all season.  A healthy Vito Arujau doesn't duck anyone.  Why do you think he only had 11 matches prior to the EIWA tournament?

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

3 minutes ago, BigRedFan said:

Give it a rest, already.  Vito has been and still is injured (more seriously than people realize) all season.  A healthy Vito Arujau doesn't duck anyone.  Why do you think he only had 11 matches prior to the EIWA tournament?

This is a discussion board, correct?

I have no doubt that Vito is injured.  I am responding to the people who think he should be seeded over Orine, who are some of the same people who think Crookham should be seeded over Fix.  Because "Ducks."

If Fix ducked, so did Vito.  Twice.  

Perhaps he beats Orine.  Good for Vito if he does.  He probably does.  However, Vito is not exempt from discussion because he is hurt.

[ionel]

If only IaW had "ducked" that fateful day.  

[BigRedFan]

13 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

This is a discussion board, correct?

I have no doubt that Vito is injured.  I am responding to the people who think he should be seeded over Orine, who are some of the same people who think Crookham should be seeded over Fix.  Because "Ducks."

If Fix ducked, so did Vito.  Twice.  

Perhaps he beats Orine.  Good for Vito if he does.  He probably does.  However, Vito is not exempt from discussion because he is hurt.

BS.  You started a thread about "ducking."  You seem to be now saying that anytime a wrestler doesn't take the mat *for any reason*, he's ducking.

[Caveira]

Didn’t brooks duck beard?

[swoopdown]

Brooks and Beard?  Is there such a thing as a mercy duck?  For old times sake?

 

Edited March 16 by swoopdown
clarification

[NM1965]

48 minutes ago, Caveira said:

Didn’t brooks duck beard?

Why would Brooks dodge a guy who quit PSU because he couldn't beat Brooks? 

[ionel]

Wasn't Crookham also doing some "duck'n" late Jan thru mid Feb?  Maybe ducking in hopes of getting that #1 seed if all else pans out?  

[Elevator]

13 minutes ago, NM1965 said:

Why would Brooks dodge a guy who quit PSU because he couldn't beat Brooks? 

pretty harsh - wrestlers who could not beat Brooks are just about (but not quite) everyone in his weight class each year.  do not know how you blame an AA level wrestler that realizes there is no path to varsity competition and transfers

[NM1965]

Just now, Elevator said:

pretty harsh - wrestlers who could not beat Brooks are just about (but not quite) everyone in his weight class each year.  do not know how you blame an AA level wrestler that realizes there is no path to varsity competition and transfers

Did I say I blamed him for transferring?

[Caveira]

1 hour ago, NM1965 said:

Why would Brooks dodge a guy who quit PSU because he couldn't beat Brooks? 

We were told by the psu faithful Cael wanted to give him a win at rec hall.  

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

10 hours ago, BigRedFan said:

BS.  You started a thread about "ducking."  You seem to be now saying that anytime a wrestler doesn't take the mat *for any reason*, he's ducking.

BS. I said that people say "Fix ducked Crooham," but I disagreed.  However, if Fix ducked, them Vito ducked Orine 2x. 

I have seen on social media that Orine is overseeded.  Meanwhile, I am not sure the masses realize that Vito had the chance to beat Kai twice.  

Hopefully Vito heals up in a week.  Is it possible that he skips NCAA and focuses on OTT?

[1032004]

1 hour ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

 

I have seen on social media that Orine is overseeded.  Meanwhile, I am not sure the masses realize that Vito had the chance to beat Kai twice.  

I haven’t seen anyone say this. Vito should have been seeded over Ragusin and maybe Shawver though

Edited March 17 by 1032004