Will Lewan

[Wrestleknownothing]

2 minutes ago, Dogbone said:

I've come around on Lewan.  It's almost performance art at this point.   Sure a 2-1 match isn't as exciting as a 14-13 match, but what about 5 consecutive?  Do you know how hard it is to win five 1 TD or OT matches to win an NCAAs.  That is not easy to do, even the great Cael Sanderson couldn't do it.  

He is unique. Incredibly boring, but unique. It isn't like he is backing up or avoiding contact. In the B1G final he is fully engaged with Haines; for the first 6 minutes one, or both of them, are on that M in the center of the mat. He doesn't start backing up until the last minute when the gas tank is edging toward empty.

[Fletcher]

18 minutes ago, PSULou64 said:

If your only offense comes off of another guys shot then I do think at some point you are stalling.  Plus he hand fights, down blocks and doesn't maneuver for a shot of his own which would open his stance to shots, to the point he keeps other guys from shooting l.  He's not the guy who wants you to get to a leg so he can scramble and score or cut the corner and score.  At least if he was that kind of wrestler you could make the better argument he wasn't stalling.

I think it was Holyfield who said it's hard to knock out a guy who's not trying to knock you out. Same logic applies here.

[Scouts Honor]

i find it interesting that no one points at the guys who wrestle him. (why aren't they attacking?)(don't tell me Haines had more attacks than lewan in the final)

and many who wrestle just like him.

one person said in another thread

whether you are 3-24 or 21-3.. haines can take you to OT.

[PortaJohn]

21 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

i find it interesting that no one points at the guys who wrestle him. (why aren't they attacking?)(don't tell me Haines had more attacks than lewan in the final)

and many who wrestle just like him.

one person said in another thread

whether you are 3-24 or 21-3.. haines can take you to OT.

Its easy not to blame the other wrestlers because we all know Lewan's strategy.  Amine has used a similar strategy with his opponents as has Beau Bartlett.  Circle, square up, hand fight, stay within the center of the cylinder.  Plod along, every once in a while dive in on the legs, but mostly try to score on counters and reattacks.

As to the Levi comment he's nearly doubled his bonus rate this year and will most likely continue to  increase that stat throughout his career.  And yes Haines had more attacks in the finals.  That was a bizarre statement

Edited March 13 by PortaJohn

[Wrestleknownothing]

6 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

i find it interesting that no one points at the guys who wrestle him. (why aren't they attacking?)(don't tell me Haines had more attacks than lewan in the final)

and many who wrestle just like him.

one person said in another thread

whether you are 3-24 or 21-3.. haines can take you to OT.

I am confused by this. Levi Haines has been in 5 OT matches in two years (11%), all against guys with winning records (Lewan twice, Robb, Zerban, Saldate) who make the tournament. And if he never wrestled Lewan it would drop to 7%.

Meanwhile, Lewan has had 16 OT matches in the past two years (31%), including one against someone with a losing record. And without Haines it would be 28.5%. 

There is a significant style difference between these two wrestlers and going to OT is obviously driven by Lewan's style.

[MLB9]

3 hours ago, Pinnacle said:

I consider Shapiro as similar if not exactly Mesenbrink. I think Shapiro gets Lewan twisted up and taken down due to his activity and pace. 

I hope they match up. Haven’t seen much at all of Shapiro, know he’s good but don’t know the style. I can’t handle another Lewan 1-1 OT match

[Scouts Honor]

21 hours ago, PortaJohn said:

Its easy not to blame the other wrestlers because we all know Lewan's strategy.  Amine has used a similar strategy with his opponents as has Beau Bartlett.  Circle, square up, hand fight, stay within the center of the cylinder.  Plod along, every once in a while dive in on the legs, but mostly try to score on counters and reattacks.

As to the Levi comment he's nearly doubled his bonus rate this year and will most likely continue to  increase that stat throughout his career.  And yes Haines had more attacks in the finals.  That was a bizarre statement

and to think so many on here want college to  become freestyle.

you just described the new stay in the center strategy for freestyle.

sounds boring.

I challenge you to count the number of attacks by both wrestlers.

i agree levi has more bonus this year... but why won't he attack lewan? 

[Scouts Honor]

21 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I am confused by this. Levi Haines has been in 5 OT matches in two years (11%), all against guys with winning records (Lewan twice, Robb, Zerban, Saldate) who make the tournament. And if he never wrestled Lewan it would drop to 7%.

Meanwhile, Lewan has had 16 OT matches in the past two years (31%), including one against someone with a losing record. And without Haines it would be 28.5%. 

There is a significant style difference between these two wrestlers and going to OT is obviously driven by Lewan's style.

i dont disagree, simply asking... why aren't they attacking as much against lewan.

seems a winning strategy.

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

6 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

i dont disagree, simply asking... why aren't they attacking as much against lewan.

seems a winning strategy.

 

I think the post match interview with Haines gives us a clue. Lewan's defense is elite. He uses it to look for the counter attack. So you either need to be very clean and very careful in your attack (and you see Haines take a couple cautious attacks in the first two periods), or you need to wear him down to blunt the effectiveness of any counter attack.

In the interview, Haines talked about needing to stay on Lewan's head to wear him out and get that clean attack. And in that match Lewan does not budge from the M in the center of the mat for 6 minutes. But then you can see him wear down and he starts backing up in the final minute. This is when Haines makes it look so easy to take him down that you wonder why he didn't do it sooner. And I think the answer is, it would not have worked sooner.

[Maxwell Smart]

Nelson Brands uses the same strategy as Lewan. Great defense and very little offense. Both look bull strong.

[Pinnacle]

13 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I think the post match interview with Haines gives us a clue. Lewan's defense is elite. He uses it to look for the counter attack. So you either need to be very clean and very careful in your attack (and you see Haines take a couple cautious attacks in the first two periods), or you need to wear him down to blunt the effectiveness of any counter attack.

In the interview, Haines talked about needing to stay on Lewan's head to wear him out and get that clean attack. And in that match Lewan does not budge from the M in the center of the mat for 6 minutes. But then you can see him wear down and he starts backing up in the final minute. This is when Haines makes it look so easy to take him down that you wonder why he didn't do it sooner. And I think the answer is, it would not have worked sooner.

A guy like Nolf would be snapping Lewans head right off one viscous head snap after another. 

Edited March 14 by Pinnacle

[Nittany]

Guys are less offensive against Lewan because they respect his defense.  If your offense isn't executed perfectly, he will often make you pay.  I can appreciate good defense, but Lewan takes a lot of heat for the simple reasons that: 1) he is a defensive wrestler, and 2) many guys won't try to be offensive against him respecting his defensive skills.  It works for him, but it's makes for boring matches, too many of which go to OT.

[Scouts Honor]

2 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I think the post match interview with Haines gives us a clue. Lewan's defense is elite. He uses it to look for the counter attack. So you either need to be very clean and very careful in your attack (and you see Haines take a couple cautious attacks in the first two periods), or you need to wear him down to blunt the effectiveness of any counter attack.

In the interview, Haines talked about needing to stay on Lewan's head to wear him out and get that clean attack. And in that match Lewan does not budge from the M in the center of the mat for 6 minutes. But then you can see him wear down and he starts backing up in the final minute. This is when Haines makes it look so easy to take him down that you wonder why he didn't do it sooner. And I think the answer is, it would not have worked sooner.

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