Pan-Am Olympic Qualifier 2/28 - 3/1

[Le duke]

Well that's more legit than I thought. I could only think of Frank Gomez off the top of my head. 
Didn't the Russian coach ban the transfer athletes from training with them? Wonder if we have a similar thing in place

How would the US do that?

Freedom of association is still a thing when last I checked. Bill of Rights and all that.


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[1032004]

Looking like CKWC might outscore NLWC at Olympics?

[bnwtwg]

3 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Looking like CKWC might outscore NLWC at Olympics?

Taylor will outscore CKWC by himself if he has another deckfest

[SocraTease]

 

[Spladle08]

1 minute ago, SocraTease said:

 

Yeah theres several big names but most will be taken off the board by last chance. There is definitely going to be a landmine or 2 but ... We should make it, but also could have a bad opening match and hasta.  I'm wondering more about 57kg, we have some horses here as well so love our chances but just wonder what the field will look like

[Le duke]

Looking like CKWC might outscore NLWC at Olympics?

NLWC will have more medalists than CKWC has quarter finalists.

Now, Myles Amine may make some hay on the back side and make a 3-5 match after getting teched by DT or Yazdani, but he’s not going to outscore any of DT, Dake or Snyder. Same with Parris, if he makes the team.




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[peanut]

Honestly if we had a wall it would have kept Olympic qualifiers like Micic, RBY, Cruz, Seabass, Gomez, and Amine in the country. 

[Spladle08]

1 minute ago, Le duke said:

 

NLWC will have more medalists than CKWC has quarter finalists.

Now, Myles Amine may make some hay on the back side and make a 3-5 match after getting teched by DT or Yazdani, but he’s not going to outscore any of DT, Dake or Snyder. Same with Parris, if he makes the team.


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Plot twist when DT and Yaz end up on the same side. 

[Le duke]

Plot twist when DT and Yaz end up on the same side. 

That would be sad. They are the two best guys at the weight by a clear margin.

Yaz will have to make the team, and he supposedly had shoulder surgery a couple months back. Don’t know specifics but that’s generally a thing that keeps you out of training for a while. So, who knows if he’ll even be Iran’s rep.

Also, Kurugliev transferred to Greece and I think one more good Russian 86kg left. The guy Brooks beat at U23s will likely be Russia’s guy.

Amine has medaled two times. He’s hardly a lock and it’s super draw-dependent. If he ends up on a theoretical DT + Yaz side, no medal.


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[Spladle08]

1 minute ago, Le duke said:

That would be sad. They are the two best guys at the weight by a clear margin.

Yaz will have to make the team, and he supposedly had shoulder surgery a couple months back. Don’t know specifics but that’s generally a thing that keeps you out of training for a while. So, who knows if he’ll even be Iran’s rep.

Also, Kurugliev transferred to Greece and I think one more good Russian 86kg left. The guy Brooks beat at U23s will likely be Russia’s guy.


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Yeah, I don't think Kurugliev has any seeding criteria so he could be a tough first round opponent for anyone. 
Throw in whoever Russia sends.  This weight could be a little more interesting than in years past. 
But yes Yaz and DT are the best 

[Mr. PeanutButter]

oh boy, the comments on twitter and elsewhere on the interwebs have been predictably salty.

Today sucked. My question is, what changes should be enacted to avoid this type of situation? As it stands, the winner at Olympic trials will have a few weeks to recover from a brutal tournament only to go and battle it out in yet another tough tournament. Doesn't sound ideal. Next quad, do we open up the pan am qualifier spot to any national team member that wants to challenge for it? Hand pick our rep? Do we move olympic trials a couple weeks up to avoid conflicts with the LCQ? This last option, although potentially less of a conflict with the LCQ, does put our best NCAA wrestlers in a bit of a bind

[bnwtwg]

No changes should be made. The US is in a golden age for freestyle. If it's not broke then don't fix it. Just remember to keep focus on where the wrestlers are from rather than the laundry they are wearing.

[wrestle87]

9 minutes ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

oh boy, the comments on twitter and elsewhere on the interwebs have been predictably salty.

Today sucked. My question is, what changes should be enacted to avoid this type of situation? As it stands, the winner at Olympic trials will have a few weeks to recover from a brutal tournament only to go and battle it out in yet another tough tournament. Doesn't sound ideal. Next quad, do we open up the pan am qualifier spot to any national team member that wants to challenge for it? Hand pick our rep? Do we move olympic trials a couple weeks up to avoid conflicts with the LCQ? This last option, although potentially less of a conflict with the LCQ, does put our best NCAA wrestlers in a bit of a bind

We really should have a better schedule.  We clearly take pan-am qualifying for granted as a country, and this is an enormous mistake.  I am once again perplexed at how poorly this is handled considering that the pan-ams are the primary path to achieving a lifelong victory. 

And if you are the US rep at pan-ams, winning it doesn't get you into the olympics, it just gets the country in.  That motivation is fundamentally sideways, considering that americans are competing against other athletes for whom victory means a place in the olympics for themselves personally, no ifs ands or buts.  

We should already have had our olympic trials by now for the unqualified weights.

 

[1032004]

27 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Taylor will outscore CKWC by himself if he has another deckfest

I honestly don’t know how the scoring works.  Would that outscore a gold from Micic and bronze from Amine?  

Regardless, I guess if Dake wins that might give it to NLWC.  Would a silver from Dake outscore two bronzes from Parris and Gomez?  Although I know Kerk could also be the US rep

[wrestle87]

After watching this wrestling today, I no longer blame Retherford.  It is an insane disadvantage to still have to jump through so many hoops AFTER your olympic qualifying tournament, and it intrinsically limits individual athlete motivation tremendously.

It is a US trials process problem, not a Richards, Lee or Retherford problem.  I am not big on making excuses for guys, but USAW 100% hamstrings athletes going into Pan-Ams.  This is going to be an increasing problem as more athletes from the US figure out ways to compete for neighboring countries.  

[wjd]

1 hour ago, SocraTease said:

Mexican wrestling is kicking America's butt.  Never thought I would see or say that.

And it's emigration not immigration problems.  The Brawn Drain (as opposed to the so-called Brain Drain).

So winning 1 head to head match is kicking butt? Qualifying 2 of 6 weights versus 5 of 6 is kicking butt?

[Mr. PeanutButter]

23 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

No changes should be made. The US is in a golden age for freestyle. If it's not broke then don't fix it. Just remember to keep focus on where the wrestlers are from rather than the laundry they are wearing.

Just to play devil's advocate, you don't think a process that leaves the possibility open for 1/3 of the olympic weights not being qualified isn't problematic?

[1032004]

12 minutes ago, wrestle87 said:

After watching this wrestling today, I no longer blame Retherford.  It is an insane disadvantage to still have to jump through so many hoops AFTER your olympic qualifying tournament, and it intrinsically limits individual athlete motivation tremendously.

It is a US trials process problem, not a Richards, Lee or Retherford problem.  I am not big on making excuses for guys, but USAW 100% hamstrings athletes going into Pan-Ams.  This is going to be an increasing problem as more athletes from the US figure out ways to compete for neighboring countries.  

What do you suggest as far as changes?

[Crotalus]

I am not big on making excuses for guys, but USAW 100% hamstrings athletes going into Pan-Ams. 

They both lost to guys they should have beaten. Can't really blame USAW for that.

[wrestle87]

14 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

What do you suggest as far as changes?

For any weights not qualified heading into pan ams, having the trials tournament before pan ams, that’s the only change.  I think it takes care of it.  

[wrestle87]

13 minutes ago, Crotalus said:

 

 

They both lost to guys they should have beaten. Can't really blame USAW for that.

 

On a normal day, yeah, but for other countries those are career/life defining days.  Maybe I’m missing something, but aren’t RBY, Cruz, Gomez etc all Olympians now? Didn’t they just punch their tickets to Paris today?  That’s an incredible prize on the line.  Not having it be on the line for US athletes is a disadvantage.  We are usually good enough to have this not be a problem, but it is easy to fix.

I have a high degree of confidence that spencer lee or dayton fix would have qualified 57kg today.  

I won’t say the same for 65kg bc Gomez went beast mode in that match, and a tuned up Austin gomez is hard for anyone to match.  He has shown his beast mode is good enough to take out yianni in a folkstyle setting.

Edited March 2 by wrestle87

[wrestle87]

This didn’t age well…

[SocraTease]

The list of US-trained guys wrestling for other countries who will be in the Olympics is long and growing.

RBY

Cruz

Gomez 

Amine

Micic

S. Rivera

Dhesi

Jonovan Smith

Ethan Ramos

Who else have I missed?

[wrestle87]

5 minutes ago, SocraTease said:

The list of US-trained guys wrestling for other countries who will be in the Olympics is long and growing.

RBY

Cruz

Gomez 

Amine

Micic

S. Rivera

Dhesi

Jonovan Smith

Ethan Ramos

Who else have I missed?

Bekzod potentially, if he is still wrestling.

[SocraTease]

In the new wrestling world of permeable borders, we cheer for laundry: