PortaJohn Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 It's seems there is a little confusion of what "getting Carvered" is. For example 1998 returning champ and heavily favored Eric Guerrero is up 6-2 in the 3rd with not much time left, falls apart, and gets beaten by freshman Doug Schwab. I posted the match below. Starts @11:00. It was an electric ending and a "he got Carvered" moment. Toss up matches, regardless if the away wrestler is ranked higher, in Iowa City do not meet "he got Carvered" criteria. 2 I Don't Agree With What I Posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerlock3 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 In that match or Kolat/Ironside, they basically forced super high paced matches because they could win a shoot out but not a chess match, in Ironsides case it was more impressive because Kolat was such a tough handifghter that ironside had to shoot from the outside to keep his offence intact. The scary thing about PSU is that most of their guys you would favor in a shoot out or chess match. Who in this dual is gonna beat PSU on pace? maybe 133, 141, 184....not 125, 149, 157, 174, 197, or 285. Caliendo wrestles really hard so I won't put him as a 'no', but I'm pretty sure we're all sorta spooked by messenbrink. 1 "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogbone Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 24 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said: In that match or Kolat/Ironside, they basically forced super high paced matches because they could win a shoot out but not a chess match, in Ironsides case it was more impressive because Kolat was such a tough handifghter that ironside had to shoot from the outside to keep his offence intact. The scary thing about PSU is that most of their guys you would favor in a shoot out or chess match. Who in this dual is gonna beat PSU on pace? maybe 133, 141, 184....not 125, 149, 157, 174, 197, or 285. Caliendo wrestles really hard so I won't put him as a 'no', but I'm pretty sure we're all sorta spooked by messenbrink. Alex Meyer beat Mark Hall his freshman year and Meyer wasn't a shootout type guy. I believe as Hall has told his version his adrenaline was too high to start the match and he gassed by the end not because of Meyer's pace but the environment. Carvered. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortaJohn Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 1 minute ago, Dogbone said: Alex Meyer beat Mark Hall his freshman year and Meyer wasn't a shootout type guy. I believe as Hall has told his version his adrenaline was too high to start the match and he gassed by the end not because of Meyer's pace but the environment. Carvered. That match was 100% Carvered 2 I Don't Agree With What I Posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 46 minutes ago, PortaJohn said: It's seems there is a little confusion of what "getting Carvered" is. For example 1998 returning champ and heavily favored Eric Guerrero is up 6-2 in the 3rd with not much time left, falls apart, and gets beaten by freshman Doug Schwab. I posted the match below. Starts @11:00. It was an electric ending and a "he got Carvered" moment. Toss up matches, regardless if the away wrestler is ranked higher, in Iowa City do not meet "he got Carvered" criteria. Was there, greatest dual meet ever seen, came down to coin flip at heavy and that coin rolled forever. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VakAttack Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 I agree that not every "lower ranked guy beats higher ranked guy" is a Carvering. Carvering will not be if Franek beats Haines, it will be if like Glazier beats Brooks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerlock3 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 8 minutes ago, Dogbone said: Alex Meyer beat Mark Hall his freshman year and Meyer wasn't a shootout type guy. I believe as Hall has told his version his adrenaline was too high to start the match and he gassed by the end not because of Meyer's pace but the environment. Carvered. you're take doesn't hold cause Mark Hall was way less a shootout type guy than Meyer. "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Iowa wrestlers have also got Carvered. Kem talked about one of his first big matches (I think ISU vs Iowa at Carver) having a big adrenaline dump. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MNRodent Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 1 hour ago, PortaJohn said: It's seems there is a little confusion of what "getting Carvered" is. For example 1998 returning champ and heavily favored Eric Guerrero is up 6-2 in the 3rd with not much time left, falls apart, and gets beaten by freshman Doug Schwab. I posted the match below. Starts @11:00. It was an electric ending and a "he got Carvered" moment. Toss up matches, regardless if the away wrestler is ranked higher, in Iowa City do not meet "he got Carvered" criteria. That second to last takedown and release, Guerrero was not near a defensible position. You might say he got Yagla'd. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerlock3 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 6 minutes ago, MNRodent said: That second to last takedown and release, Guerrero was not near a defensible position. You might say he got Yagla'd. yeah but it was that or hit him for stalling instantly. "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VakAttack Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 6 minutes ago, MNRodent said: That second to last takedown and release, Guerrero was not near a defensible position. You might say he got Yagla'd. Pssh. That was a choice Guerrero made for himself. He hung out on his knees for at least 4 seconds. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogbone Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 38 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said: you're take doesn't hold cause Mark Hall was way less a shootout type guy than Meyer. I am saying guys can get Carvered regardless of the style of the match (shootout/chess match, whatever) and not just in the shootout way like Guerrero/Schwab match played out. It is not the match style but the environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerlock3 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 29 minutes ago, Dogbone said: I am saying guys can get Carvered regardless of the style of the match (shootout/chess match, whatever) and not just in the shootout way like Guerrero/Schwab match played out. It is not the match style but the environment. Yeah but style was relevant in your example. To be honest I know adrenaline dumps are real, but I get the impression that the point of your example is to imply that losses under those circumstances aren't valid in some aspect. Feel free to correct me. "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogbone Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 8 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said: Yeah but style was relevant in your example. To be honest I know adrenaline dumps are real, but I get the impression that the point of your example is to imply that losses under those circumstances aren't valid in some aspect. Feel free to correct me. I just was trying to provide another example of "carvered" that had a different style than the one the OP gave. Had nothing to do with validity just that Carvered can happen to anyone regardless of the style. My bad if that wasn't clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortaJohn Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 41 minutes ago, Dogbone said: It is not the match style but the environment. This right here. It's one of the main ingredients. 1 I Don't Agree With What I Posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerlock3 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 23 minutes ago, PortaJohn said: This right here. It's one of the main ingredients. when did a boring out of shape wrestler carver an exciting in shape one? I'm not saying there is nothing to it but style is a bigger part of is being let on. "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortaJohn Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said: when did a boring out of shape wrestler carver an exciting in shape one? I'm not saying there is nothing to it but style is a bigger part of is being let on. Carvered is an away wrestler who is heavily favored coming into Iowa City, laying an egg, getting caught for a big move, getting decked, gassing out etc and losing. Styles can make it more exciting. Not necessarily disagreeing with you. It just a perfect stew with lots of ingredients Edited February 8 by PortaJohn 1 I Don't Agree With What I Posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul158 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 14 minutes ago, PortaJohn said: Carvered is an away wrestler who is heavily favored coming into Iowa City, laying an egg, getting caught for a big move, getting decked, gassing out etc and losing. Styles can make it more exciting. Not necessarily disagreeing with you. It just a perfect stew with lots of ingredients Even the officials are influenced by the Carver environment 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrestle87 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 2 hours ago, Gus said: Iowa wrestlers have also got Carvered. Kem talked about one of his first big matches (I think ISU vs Iowa at Carver) having a big adrenaline dump. Oh yeah, Iowa guys go out there and fall flat all the time. I would say the Carver experience is probably what makes them all outperform at NCAA's, bc even big tens and NCAA's are a less charged environment than Carver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio Elite Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 50 minutes ago, PortaJohn said: Carvered is an away wrestler who is heavily favored coming into Iowa City, laying an egg, getting caught for a big move, getting decked, gassing out etc and losing. Styles can make it more exciting. Not necessarily disagreeing with you. It just a perfect stew with lots of ingredients This is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerlock3 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 1 hour ago, PortaJohn said: Carvered is an away wrestler who is heavily favored coming into Iowa City, laying an egg, getting caught for a big move, getting decked, gassing out etc and losing. Styles can make it more exciting. Not necessarily disagreeing with you. It just a perfect stew with lots of ingredients i don't want to be difficult, the conclusion of this paragraph contradicts the introduction. If you want to say its 50 different things fine, i wouldn't because it explains away the meaning of the expression, but you can't say its any number of things and then its a bunch of things which are perfectly balanced. "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1032004 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 3 hours ago, VakAttack said: I agree that not every "lower ranked guy beats higher ranked guy" is a Carvering. Carvering will not be if Franek beats Haines, it will be if like Glazier beats Brooks. What about Kasak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le duke Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 What about Kasak? I think he’s an eligible candidate. Hopefully he lets the match come to him instead of forcing it.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSULou64 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 I didn't really think Kasak would qualify? He may be higher ranked but it's not like he's heavily favored or a seasoned veteran. Heck he may not even be the starter according to Cael. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerlock3 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 1 minute ago, PSULou64 said: I didn't really think Kasak would qualify? He may be higher ranked but it's not like he's heavily favored or a seasoned veteran. Heck he may not even be the starter according to Cael. IMHO for him to get carvered he's have to get majored or something. Him losing a one TD match doesn't qualify. "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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