Brands Advice To Suspended Iowa Wrestlers: 'Be Ready'

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

Frankly, I think they should be allowed to wrestle AND to bet on all the sports they want, including their own matches.

[ionel]

1 minute ago, Dogbone said:

The report said something to the effect that there were warrant-less searches.  It is not clear if the paper he referenced to take phones a warrant or not. It could also be that they didn't have a warrant to use the geofencing which led them to taking of the phones.  As others have mentioned, that probably only helps them legally and not with the NCAA.

Didn't it say " Court filings ... also allege one DCI agent conducted a “warrantless” investigation."   Who do you think made the filing?  This is what attorneys are going to do.  Maybe they found something but its going to take time.  Have we ever seen the NCAA suddenly change course.  Fillings ... oh if there are fillings & allegations maybe we should reconsider.  

[Dogbone]

12 minutes ago, ionel said:

Didn't it say " Court filings ... also allege one DCI agent conducted a “warrantless” investigation."   Who do you think made the filing?  This is what attorneys are going to do.  Maybe they found something but its going to take time.  Have we ever seen the NCAA suddenly change course.  Fillings ... oh if there are fillings & allegations maybe we should reconsider.  

I thought it was the defense attorney for the ISU athletes that filed their response but admittedly I have not followed this latest round closing.  To your point, that is what the defense attorney should be doing, it doesn't make it fact.  (I was just trying to help bring more context to Dresser's comment about the phones being taken and the potential defense that Dresser seem to be parroting).  It's possible that the evidence found on the phones could get thrown out but that also doesn't mean they will get off.   As you noted the legal case will take time and NCAA is not quick to decide anything. 

[Tigerfan]

“Warrantless Investigation” combined with Dresser’s comments makes me think the attorneys are referencing the cop sitting outside the dorms monitoring when anyone logged on to betting sites. 

[ionel]

46 minutes ago, Tigerfan said:

“Warrantless Investigation” combined with Dresser’s comments makes me think the attorneys are referencing the cop sitting outside the dorms monitoring when anyone logged on to betting sites. 

But the Flo article said "one DCI agent conducted a “warrantless” investigation."  So there could be others which were not.  It doesn't say the entire investigation was warrantless.  That said, the media is never accurate so who really knows.  Some parts could get thrown out which doesn't change the NCAA.  Athletes have already indicated they violated NCAA rules. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

From The Athletic:

In a discovery motion filed Monday by attorney Van Plumb, who represents former Iowa State football player Isaiah Lee, DCI special agents testified under oath they applied a warrantless GeoFence while using AI technology around athletics facilities at Iowa and Iowa State. Last summer, 14 athletes were charged with gambling-related offenses, all of whom received NCAA suspensions.

On Tuesday, attorney Christopher Sandy, who represents former ISU wrestler Pinero Johnson, provided detailed and explosive testimony from DCI special agent Mark Ludwick taken during a deposition on Jan. 19 and filed Tuesday. Ludwick interviewed Lee on May 2 and, according to a discovery motion, he “reassured Mr. Lee that the focus of DCI’s investigation was solely on online gaming operators and that no adverse or criminal consequence would be forthcoming.” Lee then discussed his gambling activities with Ludwick. After Ludwick told DCI special agent in charge Troy Nelson about the interview, Nelson allegedly congratulated Ludwick for “obtaining a confession.” Lee has pleaded not guilty to an aggravated misdemeanor and his trial is set for March 5.

“Special Agent Ludwick realized the purpose of the investigation was criminal in nature, with the sole targets being male Division I student athletes at the University of Iowa and Iowa State University,” Sandy wrote in his motion based on Ludwick’s deposition. “Special Agent Ludwick advised his superiors that he would no longer participate in the investigation and requested reassignment.”

Ludwick, a 25-year veteran with DCI, “concluded that DCI conducted an illegal search of Iowa student athletes and dozens of others’ personal online account information because the agency did not obtain a GeoFence Warrant as well as lacked reasonable, articulable suspicion to conduct such a search,” the filing says.

[1032004]

2 hours ago, Dogbone said:

The report said something to the effect that there were warrant-less searches.  It is not clear if the paper he referenced to take phones a warrant or not. It could also be that they didn't have a warrant to use the geofencing which led them to taking of the phones.  As others have mentioned, that probably only helps them legally and not with the NCAA.

Yeah, seems like the alleged “warrantless search” was referring to the geofencing.  If I’m following the story correctly (maybe not), it looks like this was alleged on Monday by the attorney for some of the football players, and then Paniro’s lawyer then (Tuesday) made a similar claim, maybe based on the first one.

https://cbs2iowa.com/news/local/iowa-dci-agent-accused-of-warrantless-search-to-start-sports-gambling-investigation

https://cbs2iowa.com/sports/i-on-the-hawks/agent-says-in-deposition-dci-engaged-in-illegal-search-of-iowa-student-athletes

 

Edited January 25 by 1032004

[1032004]

2 hours ago, JimmyCinnabon said:

Nelson Brands went on Twitter and said that they did have a training on this but he skipped it. Frankly I think the punishments are way too harsh and they should be allowed to wrestle so long as they never bet on wrestling. But it appears as if they programs did have something in place to inform the athletes about gambling.

That wasn’t the question.  Has Tom acknowledged that his wrestlers screwed up?  I’m not sure but I don’t recall that he did.  Dresser has.

[ionel]

11 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

That wasn’t the question.  Has Tom acknowledged that his wrestlers screwed up?  I’m not sure but I don’t recall that he did.  Dresser has.

You are asking the wrong question.  

[pokemonster]

Who cares, they gambled when gambling wasn't allowed. They got caught and they're making it out like they're the victims. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

58 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Yeah, seems like the alleged “warrantless search” was referring to the geofencing.  If I’m following the story correctly (maybe not), it looks like this was alleged on Monday by the attorney for some of the football players, and then Paniro’s lawyer then (Tuesday) made a similar claim, maybe based on the first one.

https://cbs2iowa.com/news/local/iowa-dci-agent-accused-of-warrantless-search-to-start-sports-gambling-investigation

https://cbs2iowa.com/sports/i-on-the-hawks/agent-says-in-deposition-dci-engaged-in-illegal-search-of-iowa-student-athletes

 

We don't have to use alleged anymore. The agent said he used a warrantless geofence in his deposition given under oath.

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

3 hours ago, JimmyCinnabon said:

Nelson Brands went on Twitter and said that they did have a training on this but he skipped it. Frankly I think the punishments are way too harsh and they should be allowed to wrestle so long as they never bet on wrestling. But it appears as if they programs did have something in place to inform the athletes about gambling.

When I was in school we had meetings at the beginning of each year about compliance- not accepting money for our likeness (has changed), no gambling, social media rules, etc. every college athlete knows what’s expected of them regardless if they attended the meeting. 

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

39 minutes ago, pokemonster said:

Who cares, they gambled when gambling wasn't allowed. They got caught and they're making it out like they're the victims. 

They broke a rule, everyone agrees with that. The real issue is 1.) should it be a rule, 2.) should the punishment be so harsh, and now 3.) were civil liberties disregarded.

 

 

[Le duke]

If the suspended wrestlers come back this suddenly goes from a boring NCAA team race to an exciting one.  There would also be a logjam with the homegrown guys and all the transfers.

This would bring them like 8 points closer.

Only 67 more points to go, Iowa!


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[Mr. PeanutButter]

4 minutes ago, Le duke said:

This would bring them like 8 points closer.

Only 67 more points to go, Iowa!


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C'mon now, Cass and Brands are capable of providing more than an extra 8 points. It won't be nearly enough to get close to PSU but it will provide cushion for a trophy. 

[AgaveMaria]

It is the NCAA, not Government Law Enforcement.

If Tommy of The Terrible Two does not like it - get Iowa out of the NCAA.

 

[Le duke]

C'mon now, Cass and Brands are capable of providing more than an extra 8 points. It won't be nearly enough to get close to PSU but it will provide cushion for a trophy. 

Over their replacements? Hill and Kennedy?

Unless Cass became a pinning machine, his likely 5th-7th place this year isn’t magically scoring 8 more points than a 1-2 or 2-2 Hill.

Nelson and Kennedy? That’s a wash.


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[CHROMEBIRD]

2 hours ago, 1032004 said:

That wasn’t the question.  Has Tom acknowledged that his wrestlers screwed up?  I’m not sure but I don’t recall that he did.  Dresser has.

Thing that bothers me isn't just the lack of acknowledgment that that their wrestlers screwed up. It's not taking ownership of what happened and acknowledging they screwed up as the head coaches. 

No one expects the coaching staff to babysit their wrestlers 24x7 but I don't think it's too much to ask a hc to make sure they're checking the boxes on mandatory NCAA policies and procedures, like compliance training. The buck stops with them, yet they take no accountability and blame others. 

[Mr. PeanutButter]

21 minutes ago, Le duke said:

Over their replacements? Hill and Kennedy?

Unless Cass became a pinning machine, his likely 5th-7th place this year isn’t magically scoring 8 more points than a 1-2 or 2-2 Hill.

Nelson and Kennedy? That’s a wash.


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As usual you are letting your irrational hate for Iowa cloud your judgment (did one of their wrestlers steal your girlfriend back in the day?)

Cass has beaten Davison and Schultz. He is a favorite over everyone in the weightclass except for Kerk and Wyatt. Bastida looks tough. I'm not sure how that match would go. 

Kennedy is undersized and is recovering from an injury. I'm not confident he AAs. Brands would. 

[Le duke]

 

2 minutes ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

As usual you are letting your irrational hate for Iowa cloud your judgment (did one of their wrestlers steal your girlfriend back in the day?)

Cass has beaten Davison and Schultz. He is a favorite over everyone in the weightclass except for Kerk and Wyatt. Bastida looks tough. I'm not sure how that match would go. 

Kennedy is undersized and is recovering from an injury. I'm not confident he AAs. Brands would. 

The Cass who was able to weigh in at 97kg is getting smashed by Davison and Schultz. Unless Cass has magically added 20lbs back on in the last couple of days, no, he's not beating those two.

Brands was 5th last year. Kennedy could do 5th-7th. And, Kennedy is actually wrestling right now, with a good record. Brands would have to get a lot of matches in ASAP, magically stay healthy in the process, do quite well at the B1G tournament and then get a lucky draw for NCAAs to repeat his result.

Edited January 25 by Le duke

[Mr. PeanutButter]

5 minutes ago, Le duke said:

 

The Cass who was able to weigh in at 97kg is getting smashed by Davison and Schultz. Unless Cass has magically added 20lbs back on in the last couple of days, no, he's not beating those two.

Brands was 5th last year. Kennedy could do 5th-7th. And, Kennedy is actually wrestling right now, with a good record. Brands would have to get a lot of matches in ASAP, magically stay healthy in the process, do quite well at the B1G tournament and then get a lucky draw for NCAAs to repeat his result.

Slim Tone would probably struggle with Schultz but I'd still pick him comfortably over Davison. Regardless, if you think Hill is comparable to Tony in anyway, I just can't take you seriously. 

I would like to be as optimistic about Kennedy as you are. Not seeing it right now but that has a lot to do with the ISU meet. In the end, I still think Brands is an upgrade 

[Offthemat]

Wrestlers breaking rules.  Cops breaking rules.  Next thing you’ll have coaches breaking rules.  Then the NCAA. 

[AgaveMaria]

54 minutes ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

Thing that bothers me isn't just the lack of acknowledgment that that their wrestlers screwed up. It's not taking ownership of what happened and acknowledging they screwed up as the head coaches. 

No one expects the coaching staff to babysit their wrestlers 24x7 but I don't think it's too much to ask a hc to make sure they're checking the boxes on mandatory NCAA policies and procedures, like compliance training. The buck stops with them, yet they take no accountability and blame others. 

Give me J Robinson any day of the week. He fell on his sword to protect his wrestlers. I don't agree with it but I admire him for it.

[Gus]

1 hour ago, Le duke said:

 

The Cass who was able to weigh in at 97kg is getting smashed by Davison and Schultz. Unless Cass has magically added 20lbs back on in the last couple of days, no, he's not beating those two.

Brands was 5th last year. Kennedy could do 5th-7th. And, Kennedy is actually wrestling right now, with a good record. Brands would have to get a lot of matches in ASAP, magically stay healthy in the process, do quite well at the B1G tournament and then get a lucky draw for NCAAs to repeat his result.

97kg is 214lbs and Tony looked huge at 214. I would not be in the least bit surprised if he is weighing 235-245 right now. Remember, this was an international event does not have the NCAA sanctioned weight cutting rules. Tony would be in the 2-5 range at NCAA's like he has been for the last 3 years if he is granted more eligibility. I don't see him beating Kerk, but everyone else is fair game. Brands would be a legit finalist contender at 174. He was 5th last year and 174 lost AA's Labriola, Foca, Ethan Smith and Plott. Assad would be a big upgrade from Riggins at 184 and a potential AA (although, I doubt it with his track record).

[swoopdown]

20 hours ago, FanOfPurdueWrestling said:

What do we interpret this as? Are the suspended coming back to Iowa?

 

https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/11959321-brands-advice-to-suspended-iowa-wrestlers-be-ready

The best news in this article is that a lot of Tom's guys are upstairs drilling.