The Government can’t give someone something without first taking it from someone else

[Paul158]

3 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

You still have to mow the lawn?

Yes.  2 acres of it. But I live in North Carolina and my lawn goes dormant when we don't have enough rain during the summer. Then it rains for a for few days, and it comes right back. Very strange.

[WrestlingRasta]

32 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

Good, let’s work on your immigration stance.  Being as half of our college STEM graduates don’t find employment in their respective fields, how many immigrants do we need to fill STEM jobs?  These would be legal, H-1B immigrants.  

So tell me….what do you feel is my immigration stance? 

[Offthemat]

26 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

So tell me….what do you feel is my immigration stance? 

That even though we weren’t a welfare state when we were expanding the country, we should still allow immigrants to enter the country, at will, to take advantage of our now welfare state. 

[WrestlingRasta]

16 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

That even though we weren’t a welfare state when we were expanding the country, we should still allow immigrants to enter the country, at will, to take advantage of our now welfare state. 

That would be incorrect 

[Offthemat]

2 hours ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Immigration policy, much like the tax code, is extremely complex, complicated, and has developed as much more of a tool for political prowess than the actual cause and effect for which it was (at least supposed to be) intended.  Another way of saying that may be that there have been a substantial number of people who made substantial contributions to making this the greatest nation in the world, who arrived here in a manner that today would be described as illegal. So I have a hard time making that the one and only factor on whether or not someone deserves an opportunity to be here.  An illegal immigrant is an illegal immigrant because someone wrote something down on a piece of paper. Not because coming to these shores is some kind of invasion on someone else’s personal freedoms.  

I believe in follow the law and follow the rules.  But I also believe when humanity is involved, ‘blanket policy’ is pretty tough.  

As they say:  I didn’t miss by much.  And it is the current situation. 

[WrestlingRasta]

1 hour ago, JimmyBT said:

You believe in follow the law and follow the rules unless it doesn’t fit your narrative. Got it. 

Well, in the particular point that you quoted me, my 'narrative' is humanity.  So, yeah....you got me. I hope you aren't expecting me to lose any sleep on that zinger!

 

Maybe I can best some it up by saying that I don't believe anyone, whether they were born here, raised here, or swam here, just deserves success.   But I would love to see everyone, whether they were born here, raised here, or swam here, have the opportunity.  

[JimmyBT]

1 minute ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Well, in the particular point that you quoted me, my 'narrative' is humanity.  So, yeah....you got me. I hope you aren't expecting me to lose any sleep on that zinger!

 

Maybe I can best some it up by saying that I don't believe anyone, whether they were born here, raised here, or swam here, just deserves success.   But I would love to see everyone, whether they were born here, raised here, or swam here, have the opportunity.  

Wasn’t meant to be a zinger.  
 

insert citizen 

[WrestlingRasta]

2 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

As they say:  I didn’t miss by much.  And it is the current situation. 

How is someone coming here and making significant contributions = someone coming here and being welfare recipient?

[JimmyBT]

3 minutes ago, JimmyBT said:

Wasn’t meant to be a zinger.  
 

insert citizen 

 

6 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Well, in the particular point that you quoted me, my 'narrative' is humanity.  So, yeah....you got me. I hope you aren't expecting me to lose any sleep on that zinger!

 

Maybe I can best some it up by saying that I don't believe anyone, whether they were born here, raised here, or swam here, just deserves success.   But I would love to see everyone, whether they were born here, raised here, or swam here, have the opportunity.  

Oh and I would sum it up if I was you. 

[mspart]

2 hours ago, WrestlingRasta said:

I would argue that what you are talking about is an effect from bad policy, not an effect from a person coming to this country wanting to make a better life for themselves, as pretty much every one of our founding fathers, or at least their parents, did.  
 

You saying by an immigrant coming they must be supported and if they work for a living they are taking a job from someone is just completely asinine and completely against the ideals this country was founded upon, at its cery core. If policy says 20% of a workforce has to be Hispanic, then that is an effect of bad policy. 
 

Yes anything illegal is written on paper, but if you can’t see the illegality difference between murder, and wanting to make a living in the United States, which is obviously the very clear point I was making, then I can’t help you there. But since we completely disagree that someone should not be allowed to come here and gain employment because I’m entitled because I was by chance born here, if you think that means I am more entitled to natural born freedoms than others not by chance born here, as a fundamental principle which is the theme of your post……well then I think you need to go through and read the constitution.  
 

To say the immigration policies are not complicated just shows your complete ignorance of them. 

To your points:

1.   It is not bad policy to restrict immigration.   In fact, every nation does this.   It is good policy to safeguard the economy.  We are the only ones with a porous border allowing millions in. 

2.  This point is ludicrous and even you should be aware of it.   Legal immigrants come here and have a job waiting for them and that is what is wanted by the US.   Illegal immigrants do not.   And if they get a job it is at the expense of a legal citizen or alien to have that job.   How else can you describe it?   If you want to say an illegal will take a job no other wants, that's ok, but how many of those are around?   There is a limit and we obviously have gone beyond that limit and it is delibilating to government budgets - cast your eyes at NYC  and Chicago. 

3.  So what is the difference between a tax cheat and a murderer.   It is only a paper difference.   The tax cheat just wants to make a living here.   That's all.  

4.   Immigration policy is pretty simple.   The US determines how many legal immigrants it wants for a given year.   It allocates that many work visas.   The US does not allocate work visas for illegal immigrants.  The fact that you cannot understand this very simple situation says you can't find the tree for the forest.  

mspart

[Offthemat]

9 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

How is someone coming here and making significant contributions = someone coming here and being welfare recipient?

The vast majority of immigrants contributions are to lower wages, fewer jobs, and increased government spending.  
 

And you haven’t commented on the hiring statistics of our STEM graduates. 

[WrestlingRasta]

5 minutes ago, mspart said:

To your points:

1.   It is not bad policy to restrict immigration.   In fact, every nation does this.   It is good policy to safeguard the economy.  We are the only ones with a porous border allowing millions in. I think you are totally missing my point.  Maybe that is on me.

2.  This point is ludicrous and even you should be aware of it.   Legal immigrants come here and have a job waiting for them and that is what is wanted by the US.   Illegal immigrants do not.   And if they get a job it is at the expense of a legal citizen or alien to have that job.   How else can you describe it?   If you want to say an illegal will take a job no other wants, that's ok, but how many of those are around?   There is a limit and we obviously have gone beyond that limit and it is delibilating to government budgets - cast your eyes at NYC  and Chicago. Our difference is on the fundamental principle.  I don't disagree on what is and what is not an 'ileagal' immigrant.  I disagree on what it seems to be your stance and who and who should not have the opportunity to 'live the american dream'

3.  So what is the difference between a tax cheat and a murderer.   It is only a paper difference.   The tax cheat just wants to make a living here.   That's all.  wow

4.   Immigration policy is pretty simple.   The US determines how many legal immigrants it wants for a given year.   It allocates that many work visas.   The US does not allocate work visas for illegal immigrants.  The fact that you cannot understand this very simple situation says you can't find the tree for the forest.  I'll just agree to completely disagree.  There doesn't seem much for us to discuss on this point.

mspart

 

[WrestlingRasta]

12 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

The vast majority of immigrants contributions are to lower wages, fewer jobs, and increased government spending.  
 

And you haven’t commented on the hiring statistics of our STEM graduates. 

Because I know nothing about the hiring statistics of STEM graduates, and answering a question on one particular field in one particular area of immigration does not a whole encompassing immigration stance make......even if I did know anything about the hiring statistics of STEM graduates.  Would you prefer I join the flock and make shit up?

 

As to your first part, I fundamentally disagree and not going to go back and forth about it, already seen that movie enough.

Edited January 12 by WrestlingRasta

[JimmyBT]

6 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Because I know nothing about the hiring statistics of STEM graduates, and answering a question on one particular field in one particular area of immigration does not a whole encompassing immigration stance make......even if I did know anything about the hiring statistics of STEM graduates.  Would you prefer I join the flock and make shit up?

 

As to your first part, I fundamentally disagree and not going to go back and forth about it, already seen that movie enough.

Join the flock?? You lead the flock in making shit up 

[WrestlingRasta]

2 hours ago, Paul158 said:

Yes.  2 acres of it. But I live in North Carolina and my lawn goes dormant when we don't have enough rain during the summer. Then it rains for a for few days, and it comes right back. Very strange.

A state that weighs heavy on my retirement list.

[Offthemat]

1 hour ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Because I know nothing about the hiring statistics of STEM graduates, and answering a question on one particular field in one particular area of immigration does not a whole encompassing immigration stance make......even if I did know anything about the hiring statistics of STEM graduates.  Would you prefer I join the flock and make shit up?

 

As to your first part, I fundamentally disagree and not going to go back and forth about it, already seen that movie enough.

So what is your opinion on what the policy should be?   If they want to come here it should be allowed?

[WrestlingRasta]

3 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

So what is your opinion on what the policy should be?   If they want to come here it should be allowed?

“If they want to come here it should be allowed?”  Pretty broad question. A free for all, with no regulation? Of course not. 
 

As I said before, it’s a very complicated issue I’m far from an expert on and not going to pretend to be an expert on in a room full of experts. 
 

As I also said before I don’t believe anyone just deserves success, no matter where they were born. But I would love to see everyone have the opportunity, no matter where they were born.  
 

I was born with inherent opportunities people born in (insert whatever country here) did not. I did nothing more to be born in this piece of land, then they did to not be born in this piece of land. I am very grateful for those opportunities. I believe I’ve used them well. I would love to see anyone who wants to make the most of such opportunities be able to. 
 

I agree it’s not that easy.

[Offthemat]

What you were born to was what generations before you built to leave to their posterity, as an example to the world, not a haven.  If it isn’t protected for some, it will be lost for all. 

[jross]

2 hours ago, Offthemat said:

Good, let’s work on your immigration stance.  Being as half of our college STEM graduates don’t find employment in their respective fields, how many immigrants do we need to fill STEM jobs?  These would be legal, H-1B immigrants.  

The software entering field has a huge shortage.  15 years ago I was interviewing citizens only.  10 years ago it had flipped to 20 Indians H1B1 per 1 citizen for local employment. 

I read today…

The US Labor Department estimates that the global shortage of software engineers may reach 85.2 million by 2030.

By 2026, it’s estimated that there will be 1.2 million engineering job openings.

https://codesubmit.io/blog/shortage-of-developers/amp/

[WrestlingRasta]

26 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

What you were born to was what generations before you built to leave to their posterity, as an example to the world, not a haven.  If it isn’t protected for some, it will be lost for all. 

I don’t know if that’s in response to something I said or just words of wisdom? I didn’t say anything about being a ‘haven’.  

[JimmyBT]

12 hours ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Well, in the particular point that you quoted me, my 'narrative' is humanity.  So, yeah....you got me. I hope you aren't expecting me to lose any sleep on that zinger!

 

Maybe I can best some it up by saying that I don't believe anyone, whether they were born here, raised here, or swam here, just deserves success.   But I would love to see everyone, whether they were born here, raised here, or swam here, have the opportunity.  

How many laws and rules don’t impact humanity? Want the opportunity come here legally and use the process to become a citizen. 

[Paul158]

12 hours ago, WrestlingRasta said:

A state that weighs heavy on my retirement list.

I live in a pretty good area in central North Carolina. 2 hours from the beach and 2 hours from the mountains. We have about 25 golf courses. Did you have any particular area  in mind? Property Taxes here are extremely reasonable. 

[WrestlingRasta]

12 minutes ago, Paul158 said:

I live in a pretty good area in central North Carolina. 2 hours from the beach and 2 hours from the mountains. We have about 25 golf courses. Did you have any particular area  in mind? Property Taxes here are extremely reasonable. 

Hahaha, I didn't really have any particular towns in mind, but the attraction was I would like to be somewhere I am equal distance from the mountains or the beach.    Haul a food truck between Carolina in the summer months and Florida in the winter.

[JimmyBT]

But but but Florida has no sanctuary cities.  Shouldn’t you be setting up shop somewhere that the opportunity for “everyone” is a top priority???? 

[WrestlingRasta]

It looks like someone is acting out due to the lack of attention.  You need to calm down, stop tugging on my shorts, and go back and have a seat at the kiddie table. I’ll come play when I’m ready.