Overall, is Cornell the best choice for elite wrestlers?

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

Hot take, but putting aside the ability to win a NCAA team title, is Cornell actually the best college for elite wrestlers over Penn State or Iowa?

In favor of Cornell:

1. Elite Ivy league education and alumni network
2. Ability to develop individual champs equal to Penn State
3. Better ability to develop 4x NCAA champs (Cornell has 2 in Dake and Yianni, Penn State has 0 so far)
4. Better international/FS development than Iowa

Against Cornell:

1. Fewer team titles than Penn State and Iowa
2. Weaker international/FS development than Penn State

[MushroomKing]

Yes

[Hammerlock3]

shouldn't you pay your debts?

[mspart]

mspart

[Ohio Elite]

31 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

shouldn't you pay your debts?

Yes he should

[Pinnacle]

Overall, is Connabon the best choice for aspiring message board trolls?

Edited January 9 by Pinnacle

[Hammerlock3]

40 minutes ago, Pinnacle said:

Overall, is Connabon the best choice for aspiring message board trolls?

he used to be, but court jesters can't be mean spirited shills. Trolling is art not propoganda.

[AgaveMaria]

No. Among the top choices if you count 4 timers but it does not have the infrastructure to advance the careers of many wrestlers. A place like Penn State does have it and it is only getting better.

 

[BigRedFan]

56 minutes ago, AgaveMaria said:

No. Among the top choices if you count 4 timers but it does not have the infrastructure to advance the careers of many wrestlers. A place like Penn State does have it and it is only getting better.

 

That lack of infrastructure produced Kyle Dake (World champion), Vito Arujau (also world champion), and Yianni (silver medalist), and helped Shapiro to a U20 world championship.  Perhaps not at the current level of the infrastructure at Penn State, but to say it can't advance the careers of many wrestlers may be a bit exaggerated.

[FanOfPurdueWrestling]

I’ve never understood why Ivy League schools aren’t a hothead for sports with minimal pro aspirations. 99.99% of wrestlers, runners, gymnasts, swimmers, etc. are not going to a pro league or getting a shoe deal or whatever to be involved in the sport as a career. Why would they not go to the best possible school in America, be a student athlete (well respected), leave with minimal debt, and then make 100k 1 month out of college. 

[AgaveMaria]

"but to say it can't advance the careers of many wrestlers may be a bit exaggerated."

"Among the top choices"

Go back and read what I wrote. Cornell is very good. No doubt about it. Better than many may think. Infrastructure and advanced training facilities and personnel are not at the top. Not yet, IF they decide to go all in on it maybe they can get there. Penn State is top guy right now and probably will be for some years to come. Even Dake trains there now and I bet Yianni and Vito will do so at least part time in the future.

For now Cornell is a pipeline. Much better than Iowa or Oklahoma State. Their coaching is top notch and they attract top talent. But "Best Overall Choice"? I still say no - and maybe have to add a "not yet" to it.

 

[Plasmodium]

How about NIL opportunities?

[wrestle87]

6 hours ago, FanOfPurdueWrestling said:

I’ve never understood why Ivy League schools aren’t a hothead for sports with minimal pro aspirations. 99.99% of wrestlers, runners, gymnasts, swimmers, etc. are not going to a pro league or getting a shoe deal or whatever to be involved in the sport as a career. Why would they not go to the best possible school in America, be a student athlete (well respected), leave with minimal debt, and then make 100k 1 month out of college. 

Bc at Ivy’s, academics is a full-time sport so to speak. The number of kids who can handle that academic load and keep up with athletics.

[Jim L]

9 hours ago, FanOfPurdueWrestling said:

I’ve never understood why Ivy League schools aren’t a hothead for sports with minimal pro aspirations. 99.99% of wrestlers, runners, gymnasts, swimmers, etc. are not going to a pro league or getting a shoe deal or whatever to be involved in the sport as a career. Why would they not go to the best possible school in America, be a student athlete (well respected), leave with minimal debt, and then make 100k 1 month out of college. 

They kind of are. Similar to the way Ivies (some) can compete against the top DI schools in wrestling, in many other sports outside of FB and BB Ivies have competitive teams and AA level athletes

[Jim L]

3 hours ago, wrestle87 said:

Bc at Ivy’s, academics is a full-time sport so to speak. The number of kids who can handle that academic load and keep up with athletics.

I believe this is mostly myth. The athletes that are competing at the highest level of the NCAA are athletes first. There are exceptions as there are at most schools and maybe the percentage at the Ivies is somewhat higher than a typical school.

The classic saying about the Ivy league is that the hardest thing about them is getting in. Of course this varies widely depending on major. I would curios how many of the top wrestlers have challenging majors

[1032004]

No.  It's #2 though.

[MJD]

On 1/8/2024 at 3:46 PM, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Hot take, but putting aside the ability to win a NCAA team title, is Cornell actually the best college for elite wrestlers over Penn State or Iowa?

In favor of Cornell:

1. Elite Ivy league education and alumni network
2. Ability to develop individual champs equal to Penn State
3. Better ability to develop 4x NCAA champs (Cornell has 2 in Dake and Yianni, Penn State has 0 so far)
4. Better international/FS development than Iowa

Against Cornell:

1. Fewer team titles than Penn State and Iowa
2. Weaker international/FS development than Penn State

Given the limited professional opportunities and lower financial returns in wrestling post-college, my suggestion is for wrestlers to aim for the highest-ranked college (in academics) they can enter. While the distinction between top public / private schools and lower ranked institutions may not be pronounced, based on my experience with degrees from both high and mid-to-low ranking universities, opting for a higher-ranked institution can provide advantages such as enhanced networking and name recognition. In our competitive capitalist landscape, every advantage contributes. It's worth noting that football presents a different scenario; for instance, Alabama excels in football despite not being renowned for academics, making it a logical choice for players pursuing a career in the sport.

Edited January 9 by MJD

[RandolphTJones]

PSU 1st 5x National Champ > Cornell's 2 4xer's

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

1 minute ago, RandolphTJones said:

PSU 1st 5x National Champ > Cornell's 2 4xer's

Counting your chickens before they hatch?

[BigRedFan]

15 minutes ago, Jim L said:

I believe this is mostly myth. The athletes that are competing at the highest level of the NCAA are athletes first. There are exceptions as there are at most schools and maybe the percentage at the Ivies is somewhat higher than a typical school.

The classic saying about the Ivy league is that the hardest thing about them is getting in. Of course this varies widely depending on major. I would curios how many of the top wrestlers have challenging majors

I did a search of the Cornell roster; Cornell does not recognize majors but does indicate college:

Agriculture:  13

Arts: 5

Engineering:  5

Architecture:  3 (including three starters, two of which are AAs)

ILR:  4

Business/Dyson:  3

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

4 minutes ago, BigRedFan said:

I did a search of the Cornell roster; Cornell does not recognize majors but does indicate college:

Agriculture:  13

Arts: 5

Engineering:  5

Architecture:  3 (including three starters, two of which are AAs)

ILR:  4

Business/Dyson:  3

Lots of future farmers

[Jim L]

59 minutes ago, Jim L said:

I believe this is mostly myth. The athletes that are competing at the highest level of the NCAA are athletes first. There are exceptions as there are at most schools and maybe the percentage at the Ivies is somewhat higher than a typical school.

The classic saying about the Ivy league is that the hardest thing about them is getting in. Of course this varies widely depending on major. I would curios how many of the top wrestlers have challenging majors

Rereading my own post, it sounds very dismissive of what these athletes are doing. I am sure it is really hard to be a high level athlete and a student aiming to graduate in 4/5 years. I just don't think necessarily we should look at the Ivy leagues guys as above and beyond what other student-athletes are doing because their school has a more prestigious reputation.

[Jim L]

37 minutes ago, BigRedFan said:

I did a search of the Cornell roster; Cornell does not recognize majors but does indicate college:

Agriculture:  13

Arts: 5

Engineering:  5

Architecture:  3 (including three starters, two of which are AAs)

ILR:  4

Business/Dyson:  3

Also curious what years the Eng majors are. I remember conversation that Lehigh's lineup and had a lot of Frosh who were declared as Eng majors but by the time they had a year or two of Eng classes they had switched majors or were no longer wrestling. Of course it common for Frosh Eng majors to switch at some point.

[BigRedFan]

17 minutes ago, Jim L said:

Also curious what years the Eng majors are. I remember conversation that Lehigh's lineup and had a lot of Frosh who were declared as Eng majors but by the time they had a year or two of Eng classes they had switched majors or were no longer wrestling. Of course it common for Frosh Eng majors to switch at some point.

As I said, Cornell doesn't recognize majors.  "Engineering" means the College of Engineering.  Students don't typically transfer between Colleges at Cornell, and the more typical case is students enrolling at easier-to-get-into colleges and transferring into the College of Engineering after taking sufficient engineering courses as electives*.  Those listed as being in the College of Engineering are a senior, a junior, a freshman, a sophomore, and another sophomore.

Foca (senior), Cardenas (senior), Fernandez (junior) are the ones in the College of Architecture, Art, and Planning.  Not an easy academic load, IIRC.

*many years ago, I had a girlfriend in the Ag school who was taking 6-7 courses per semester, including at least two engineering courses, and who did transfer into the College of Engineering and became a structural test engineer.  Totally off topic:  this led me to find a photo of her from her years at Cornell.  Thanks!

Edited January 9 by BigRedFan

[Jim L]

Yes. I remember Architecture major  as being very time consuming and need to spend lots of time in studio. It often was a 5 year degree. Very impressive for those Cornell wrestlers to be able to accomplish this