I guess BJJ dudes need to work on growing their sport too

[1032004]

 

 

[Ohio Elite]

25 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

 

 

They sure do, that was lame.

[MadMardigain]

Just to help everyone out, in the BJJ grappling world Sterling would actually be the one “stalling” by backing away and purposely disengaging from his opponent.  The butt scoot offense is annoying to some traditional stand up guys but is allowed in BJJ as long as you are moving forward with an attempt to make contact. The point of the BJJ grappling competition is to have contact which results in a grappling hold and eventual submission victory, so the “neutral” position only expected to be a small part of the opening second of the match.  Judges are scoring the match based on passing the opponents guard and making legitimate submission attempts but not just for a “takedown.”  Without striking being an option in a grappling competition your only real option for scoring is to engage your opponent and gain control.  Wrestlers who transition into BJJ tend to want to gain their advantage for ground control and submission through the neutral battle and a takedown to back control.  Where as many natural BJJ guys are perfectly comfortable gaining their submission from starting on the ground with their back exposed (no back point obviously) and causing their opponent to engage them into their guard position. Sterling did agree to a grappling competition so he has to adapt to their rules.  Just like a Chess master would have to adjust to playing in a checkers championship. Its a different world with some similarities but strategies that need adjusted none the less. 

Edited January 1 by MadMardigain

[Jim L]

To be fair that was not a BJJ match. Someone who only wants to grapple in a MMA match better have takedowns, which are mostly unnecessary in BJJ 

 

[MadMardigain]

13 minutes ago, Jim L said:

To be fair that was not a BJJ match. Someone who only wants to grapple in a MMA match better have takedowns, which are mostly unnecessary in BJJ 

 

My understanding was this was a set up as a grappling match through Fury’s Grappling Division, which for the most part is a BJJ competition, not MMA where striking is allowed and takedowns by themselves hold value. 

Edited January 1 by MadMardigain

[1032004]

1 hour ago, MadMardigain said:

Just to help everyone out, in the BJJ grappling world Sterling would actually be the one “stalling” by backing away and purposely disengaging from his opponent.  The butt scoot offense is annoying to some traditional stand up guys but is allowed in BJJ as long as you are moving forward with an attempt to make contact. The point of the BJJ grappling competition is to have contact which results in a grappling hold and eventual submission victory, so the “neutral” position only expected to be a small part of the opening second of the match.  Judges are scoring the match based on passing the opponents guard and making legitimate submission attempts but not just for a “takedown.”  Without striking being an option in a grappling competition your only real option for scoring is to engage your opponent and gain control.  Wrestlers who transition into BJJ tend to want to gain their advantage for ground control and submission through the neutral battle and a takedown to back control.  Where as many natural BJJ guys are perfectly comfortable gaining their submission from starting on the ground with their back exposed (no back point obviously) and causing their opponent to engage them into their guard position. Sterling did agree to a grappling competition so he has to adapt to their rules.  Just like a Chess master would have to adjust to playing in a checkers championship. Its a different world with some similarities but strategies that need adjusted none the less. 

I think the point is that while crawling around on your butt may be “good strategy,” it doesn’t make for very good TV.

Kinda like wrestling matches where no one takes a shot.

[MadMardigain]

1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

I think the point is that while crawling around on your butt may be “good strategy,” it doesn’t make for very good TV.

Kinda like wrestling matches where no one takes a shot.

Yes, BJJ in general doesn’t make for good general audience TV if it’s MMA or not. But wrestling in general doesn’t either.  Both are highlight reel sports at best for the average sports fan since they didn’t grow up with them. But almost all sports are like that for a person or culture if you didn’t grow up with an invested interest in it.  Take soccer interest in the U.S. vs soccer in Europe or South America. Or pick about any other sport for that matter in one area of the world vs another. 

[1032004]

25 minutes ago, MadMardigain said:

Yes, BJJ in general doesn’t make for good general audience TV if it’s MMA or not. But wrestling in general doesn’t either.  Both are highlight reel sports at best for the average sports fan since they didn’t grow up with them. But almost all sports are like that for a person or culture if you didn’t grow up with an invested interest in it.  Take soccer interest in the U.S. vs soccer in Europe or South America. Or pick about any other sport for that matter in one area of the world vs another. 

I mean I guess I’m biased but I’d like to think that wrestling is a better spectator sport if that clip is actually representative of competitive BJJ.  Which it seems like it is, IIRC isn’t that what Gordon Ryan did against Nickal?

[MadMardigain]

41 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

…. isn’t that what Gordon Ryan did against Nickal?

For some of the contest yes.  In most rule sets official does have the discretion to stand the opponent up if they are just sitting on the ground and not trying to engage too.  But as long as you are moving cleared and attempting to make contact with your opponent that position is allows and the standing opponent would be the one who could be penalized if they are constantly disengaging and moving away. 

[CHROMEBIRD]

3 hours ago, 1032004 said:

I think the point is that while crawling around on your butt may be “good strategy,” it doesn’t make for very good TV.

Kinda like wrestling matches where no one takes a shot.

Honestly, that clip is similar to what Greco looks like to those who don't compete in or follow the sport. It might be a chess match with a lot going on, but it's not as digestible as touchdown passes, QB sacks, or slam dunks.

[1032004]

3 minutes ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

Honestly, that clip is similar to what Greco looks like to those who don't compete in or follow the sport. 

No argument here

[Jim L]

4 hours ago, MadMardigain said:

My understanding was this was a set up as a grappling match through Fury’s Grappling Division, which for the most part is a BJJ competition, not MMA where striking is allowed and takedowns by themselves hold value. 

That changes perspective. If they weren't allowed to strike why was they guy wanting to stand?

[Jim L]

3 hours ago, 1032004 said:

I mean I guess I’m biased but I’d like to think that wrestling is a better spectator sport if that clip is actually representative of competitive BJJ.  Which it seems like it is, IIRC isn’t that what Gordon Ryan did against Nickal?

They clip is not representative of BJJ comp, but IMO, BJJ is a much worse spectator sport than wrestling. Much longer matches with often very little going on. I loved BJJ and enjoyed competitions, but watching world championship matches was excruciating.

 

[1032004]

4 minutes ago, Jim L said:

That changes perspective. If they weren't allowed to strike why was they guy wanting to stand?

I am ignorant of BJJ rules but there’s no striking allowed in wrestling either…

[Jim L]

1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

I am ignorant of BJJ rules but there’s no striking allowed in wrestling either…

Almost all BJJ matches are won on the mat. A TD scores points, most people will just pull guard because ground work is really what BJJ is about. It was always frustrating for me with a Wrestling and Judo background to have guys just fall down as soon as you would tie up with them

[MadMardigain]

28 minutes ago, Jim L said:

 If they weren't allowed to strike why was the guy wanting to stand?

My guess would be with Sterlings wrestling heavy background he was hoping from the feet takedown would help him advance to back control or at least side control better vs. his skilled BJJ opponent.  I haven’t watched the entire fight but guessing he wasn’t having much success passing that guys guard or finding any real submission attempts so wanted to change his attack position.  I’ve seen guys with wrestling backgrounds do this a lot in grappling competitions.  BJJ guys often then resort to the ground tactic seen in the video to neutralize some of that. Its worth noting that Sterling does have a solid level of BJJ under his belt as his MMA fights have shown, but when going against a high level almost completely BJJ grappler you may not get far and want to look for a different attack style to get in. 

Edited January 1 by MadMardigain