Brands wanted them, he got them

[H82Lose]

8 hours ago, BAC said:

Here's the reality folks:

1. That's the last college wrestling match you'll ever see AJ wrestle.  Not just Iowa, but anywhere.  If the punch wasn't bad enough, he gave the bird too, and then gave the bird to the whole stadium -- full of HIS supposed fans.  No one is taking him now.  He's done. Its straight-to-MMA now.  

2. Anthony's leaving too.  He's clearly not a favorite on the team with Caleb so gleefully shoving and clowning on him.  They're probably still bitter about him causing Chittum's departure. Even if he might have stuck it out after his scuffle tonight, there's no way he's staying after AJ's antics.  There will be lots of spillover on him, and he won't want to stay.

3. Angelo decommits in solidarity with his brothers.  Not that Iowa is going to run him out of town the way they will AJ and Anthony, but here's the problem:  (1) after tonight, the Ferrari name is pure poison in Iowa City, and Angelo will pick up on that real quick, and (2) blood is thicker than water, and if AJ/Anthony storm out of Iowa City in disgust, it would be an insult to his brothers if Angelo stuck around.

That's it folks.  End of the Iowa/Ferrari experiment.

You know Iowa better than me. I do know Brands knew he was selling his soul to the devil to land Angelo, and I THINK he thought, if AJJ comes, that would be great. I think Anthony was a surprise and thought he might start some matches.  I will be SHOCKED if Brands gets rid of them, again because of Angelo. Angelo is a rare talent, and could be another 4X AA IMO. This Family is tight, and I think if one leaves, they all leave....BUT I just don't see Brands telling them to hit the door. Let's be honest here, Desanto was a F'g nut bag, he was ok with that for a few years. Brands prolly thinks he can keep them in order. 

[jackwebster]

9 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:

worst of the boroughs, all starting to make sense.

Here's an obligatory Wu-tang objection.

[ScarletKnight]

10 hours ago, Caveira said:

Someone said he did the splits while giving the middle finger on the hawks board.  I watched the live stream didn’t recall that.     Wow ?   Possibly a double finger but that right arm is cropped out of the shot.  Not a great look….. also he can’t do the splits lol.   

 

[RegularStalling]

Iowa has always viewed themselves as the pinnacle of collegiate wrestling. From the way many current and former hawks speak, it’s clear that nobody was, or is bigger than the program. If Brands chooses to go forward with this circus, it’ll tear at the fabric that many poured blood, sweat, and tears into making over the course of many decades.

For a number of reasons (many of which are personal opinion), I was appalled that that Brands brought them in to the program. Choosing to go forward after this spectacle will forever tarnish the Iowa program and cement Brands as someone who sold their soul (and his programs) in hopes of securing a few extra team points.

Edited December 31, 2023 by RegularStalling

[Pinnacle]

Does Vince McMahon and his WWE organization have a decent copyright infringement case against Iowa wrestling? Seems like they are the same product.

[Maxwell Smart]

They were the pinnacle of wrestling under Dan Gable. The pressure to perform has been getting to the Brands brothers and program for years. The lack of individual champions over the last 10 years is shocking considering other programs like Cornell, Nebraska, Missouri, and N C State recruiting and developing talent.  Unfortunately, they aren't THE program everyone wants to go to and they're falling behind the previously mentioned programs. It will be interesting to see how this shakes out. This behavior isn't agreeable to Iowa fans or wrestling fans.

[Eagle26]

6 hours ago, billyhoyle said:

Tom Brands needs to go.  Absolutely disgraceful and a huge liability for the university to have them on campus.  This is the most obvious and inevitable disaster situation that I've ever seen.  

If Brands still takes AJ at this point, yes, he should lose his job. I doubt that he does though. Not sure if this was a planned trial run, but either way, it was a huge gift to the Brands that this happened. It’s pretty obvious that the whole team will be dragged down if AJ is on it, and if Brands doesn’t see that now, he’s much worse than I thought. 

[Jim L]

3 hours ago, H82Lose said:

You know Iowa better than me. I do know Brands knew he was selling his soul to the devil to land Angelo, and I THINK he thought, if AJJ comes, that would be great. I think Anthony was a surprise and thought he might start some matches.  I will be SHOCKED if Brands gets rid of them, again because of Angelo. Angelo is a rare talent, and could be another 4X AA IMO. This Family is tight, and I think if one leaves, they all leave....BUT I just don't see Brands telling them to hit the door. Let's be honest here, Desanto was a F'g nut bag, he was ok with that for a few years. Brands prolly thinks he can keep them in order. 

Huge difference, in my view, between DeSanto and what we have seen of AJ, even without going into the off the mat legal troubles of Ferrari.

[ScarletKnight]

33 minutes ago, Jim L said:

Huge difference, in my view, between DeSanto and what we have seen of AJ, even without going into the off the mat legal troubles of Ferrari.

Edited December 31, 2023 by ScarletKnight

[Jim L]

26 minutes ago, ScarletKnight said:

Fair enough. I guess I remember the final result more then the "bumps" along  the way. Still ADS never had any issues with law or "alleged" sexual assaults

[Elevator]

People love a comeback story and it seemed like Iowa was going to offer the chance.   Not sure this family is interested.   Is this a planned WWE showmanship campaign to further build the family brand?  Expecting no more NCAA wrestling for AJ and not to sure about his middle brother.

[JimmyBT]

12 hours ago, BAC said:

You can always count on Tom to stand up for what's right, tolerate no BS, and tell it like it is:

Haha just kidding!  He totally ducks the AJ fiasco, and only mentions the Anthony/Caleb R match to commend Caleb for his post-match antics.

What a bunch of gutless reporters.  

[ionel]

6 hours ago, gimpeltf said:

Which 2?

My understanding is Blair, yes. But not kicked out of Bergen C. I believe they were just ineligible to transfer when they did so they went back home.

Stillwater HS

[Plasmodium]

This showmanship meshes with the UFC as well as it does with the WWE.  The weak punch and boring wrestling, not so much.

Edited December 31, 2023 by Plasmodium

[VakAttack]

3 hours ago, RegularStalling said:

Iowa has always viewed themselves as the pinnacle of collegiate wrestling. From the way many current and former hawks speak, it’s clear that nobody was, or is bigger than the program. If Brands chooses to go forward with this circus, it’ll tear at the fabric that many poured blood, sweat, and tears into making over the course of many decades.

For a number of reasons (many of which are personal opinion), I was appalled that that Brands brought them in to the program. Choosing to go forward after this spectacle will forever tarnish the Iowa program and cement Brands as someone who sold their soul (and his programs) in hopes of securing a few extra team points.

 

2 hours ago, Maxwell Smart said:

They were the pinnacle of wrestling under Dan Gable. The pressure to perform has been getting to the Brands brothers and program for years. The lack of individual champions over the last 10 years is shocking considering other programs like Cornell, Nebraska, Missouri, and N C State recruiting and developing talent.  Unfortunately, they aren't THE program everyone wants to go to and they're falling behind the previously mentioned programs. It will be interesting to see how this shakes out. This behavior isn't agreeable to Iowa fans or wrestling fans.

This is wildly overdramatic.  They're the second most successful program in the current Era.  They're not as good as Oenn State, and that sucks as a fan, but every year they're as good or better than everybody else.

[bnwtwg]

Kemerrer did so much to clean up the culture in the Iowa room and it's all for naught.

[Elevator]

52 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

 

This is wildly overdramatic.  They're the second most successful program in the current Era.  They're not as good as Oenn State, and that sucks as a fan, but every year they're as good or better than everybody else.

Agree with this.  Still some magic - although I do not tend to root for them. 

[Le duke]

Lost in all of the post-match antics are two things:

1) AJ’s reactions to the two stalling calls. If he survives this, Brooks is going to pour it on him in a way that he has never seen or felt. If he has a meltdown over a single point, he’s goin to fall
apart against Brooks.

2) He went to OT vs #19 Glazier.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dogbone]

12 hours ago, VakAttack said:

There was some extracurriculars in that one from the opponent which lead to that. 

There is always a justification to disrespect an opponent...  He "started" it, so all is well.

[BAC]

7 hours ago, H82Lose said:

You know Iowa better than me. I do know Brands knew he was selling his soul to the devil to land Angelo, and I THINK he thought, if AJJ comes, that would be great. I think Anthony was a surprise and thought he might start some matches.  I will be SHOCKED if Brands gets rid of them, again because of Angelo. Angelo is a rare talent, and could be another 4X AA IMO. This Family is tight, and I think if one leaves, they all leave....BUT I just don't see Brands telling them to hit the door. Let's be honest here, Desanto was a F'g nut bag, he was ok with that for a few years. Brands prolly thinks he can keep them in order. 

I'm not suggesting Brands is suddenly going to get weak-kneed just because a recruit threw a punch and flipped the bird.  Or even that it was an Iowa guy he did it to.  Brands has always operated on the periphery, on the outer edges of the ethical, recasting unsportsmanlike conduct as merely being "passionate."  Just look at his vocal defense of Rathjen's antics.

I think the bigger issues are (1) he did it to the crowd, turning the entire Iowa crowd passionately against AJ., and (2) he just wasn't that good.

The whole reason that Brands was willing to take a chance on AJ is he wants to win at all costs, and he wants to win at all costs because that keeps Iowa fans and admin on his side.  But if Iowans do NOT want AJ -- and as of now, clearly they won't -- then the wins AJ brings won't matter.  Brands now risks having his own guy get booed if he puts AJ on the mat, and that's worse for Brands' job security than losing.

Maybe Iowa fans could get over it if AJ was suddenly the key to winning NCAAs, e.g. that Iowa was just one stud away from beating PSU, and the antics happened after AJ just finished tech-pinning Glazier.  But in fact, AJ was barely a rounding error better than Glazier.  He likely wouldn't create many if any new team wins, and sure wouldn't going to put them over the hump against PSU.

In short, I'm not putting Brands on a pedestal and thinking he'll suddenly get all moral on us, but his cold "win at all costs" calculus no longer helps AJ.

Edited December 31, 2023 by BAC

[BAC]

13 hours ago, BIGTENFANBOY said:

Absolutely. They also become infinitely more likeable people once they leave the "bubble." Metcalf (Tom Brands' former Golden boy) discussed this in an interview and Gilman spoke with him about it when he apologized for being an ass to him.

Link?  Curious to read that.

[Dogbone]

Why does anyone think this changes AJ or any Ferrari from going to Iowa?  

It will get downplayed, just some pushing and shoving, punch didn't even connect, it was the other guy who started it, even if by starting it that means not allowing your head to be pushed down after the match, it was only the one finger solute, come on the tournament's name was soldier solute, just a little misunderstanding.

Nothing in Iowa's history suggest this behavior is so egregious that there would be even a hand slap.   

Dust up with ISU after the match, Desanto's actions, Gilman body slamming Waters...

Just add it to the list of things opposing fans will use to say Iowa is disrespectful thugs and Iowa fans will say is no big deal, only because it is Iowa that people are making a big deal about it. And move on until the next thing.

 

[VakAttack]

1 hour ago, Dogbone said:

There is always a justification to disrespect an opponent...  He "started" it, so all is well.

Respect is earned.  Don't dish it out if you can't take it.  Also, welcome to sports.

[Hammerlock3]

imagine if you could send that picture back in time a week and have us guess what is going on.....

[billyhoyle]

5 hours ago, Eagle26 said:

If Brands still takes AJ at this point, yes, he should lose his job. I doubt that he does though. Not sure if this was a planned trial run, but either way, it was a huge gift to the Brands that this happened. It’s pretty obvious that the whole team will be dragged down if AJ is on it, and if Brands doesn’t see that now, he’s much worse than I thought. 

Do they currently live and train in Des Moines? If yes, he needs to go because he already brought them in regardless of whether they are wrestling unattached. If no, I agree.