AJ Ferrari to 197

[1032004]

  On 2/7/2024 at 4:39 AM, ionel said:

What write offs?  Ranchers pay for their feed and insurance.  Most are grazing private land but when public they lease the land, the grazing also benefits they land.  I see no subsidy from non meat folk. 

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[Le duke]

  On 2/7/2024 at 4:49 AM, ionel said:

Every business gets business expense writeoffs that's just part of the tax code, we don't tax revenue (except via local & state sales tax) we tax income.  Non meat eaters aren't subsidizing..  

When ranchers in a state like CO, UT, NV, or NM run their cattle on USFS or BLM public land for incredibly small head fees, yes, the US government is doing a lot of work to support that. Fencing, cattle guards, etc. All of that is put in and maintained on the public dime.

Remember Cliven Bundy? The jackass who didn’t want to pay to run his cattle on public land? Yeah. We subsidize him.


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[ionel]

  On 2/7/2024 at 1:41 PM, Le duke said:

When ranchers in a state like CO, UT, NV, or NM run their cattle on USFS or BLM public land for incredibly small head fees, yes, the US government is doing a lot of work to support that. Fencing, cattle guards, etc. All of that is put in and maintained on the public dime.

Remember Cliven Bundy? The jackass who didn’t want to pay to run his cattle on public land? Yeah. We subsidize him.


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What percentage of beef comes from public land grazing and in that sub group what percentage paid no lease?

[Le duke]

  On 2/7/2024 at 3:11 PM, ionel said:

What percentage of beef comes from public land grazing and in that sub group what percentage paid no lease?

About 4%.

No one pays a lease. They pay head fees of $1.35 a month. It’s welfare for the people who own land adjacent to federal lands who don’t want to pay fees costs.

The federal government spends hundreds of millions of dollars a year, operating at a significant loss, to kill wildlife that would predate upon or compete with cattle. And then the previously mentioned fencing and infrastructure (pumps, water tanks, etc.) that is provided.

Seems to me that we could just stop subsidizing this use of 40,000,000 acres of federal land.


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[TNwrestling]

This has turned into the most boring conversation on this entire forum...

 

..but at least we're not talking about aj anymore. so i guess its still a win. 

[ionel]

  On 2/7/2024 at 4:07 PM, Le duke said:

About 4%.

No one pays a lease. They pay head fees of $1.35 a month. It’s welfare for the people who own land adjacent to federal lands who don’t want to pay fees costs.

The federal government spends hundreds of millions of dollars a year, operating at a significant loss, to kill wildlife that would predate upon or compete with cattle. And then the previously mentioned fencing and infrastructure (pumps, water tanks, etc.) that is provided.

Seems to me that we could just stop subsidizing this use of 40,000,000 acres of federal land.


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Or sell the land.  As Federal land there is no property tax being paid to support local schools, is that fair to rural kids in those states? 

Is the 4% Fed land?  Yes lease/fee is AUM.  What's the market value lease on Fed land, are there alternative uses?

[pawrestler]

  On 2/7/2024 at 6:26 AM, The_KC_Godfather said:

 They receive different subsidies or tax breaks depending on what they're zoned for. 

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Yes, and someone has to pay that difference! We don't just go oh okay I guess we need less money to operate now that there’s 3 orphanages instead of 2 in our town. Either we raise taxes on someone / something to make up the difference or we cut another service or subsidy. Thats my whole point is that we all pay for things that maybe don’t directly benefit us because we’ve decided the good to society as a whole is worth it. 
 

  On 2/7/2024 at 6:26 AM, The_KC_Godfather said:

Let's take church out of it...let's say that 1/10th of your proposal is a non-profit home for orphans. Should they be taxed when they have zero income? Again, the money being "written off" has already been taxed. Didn't see that you answered that question about non-profits...

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If you don’t have any income I don’t see what income tax you could pay. Idk if I’m really understanding the question. 

[VakAttack]

  On 2/7/2024 at 4:38 PM, TNwrestling said:

This has turned into the most boring conversation on this entire forum...

 

..but at least we're not talking about aj anymore. so i guess its still a win. 

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Clearly somebody has not matriculated their way to the NWT forum.

[Rassling]

  On 2/7/2024 at 4:38 PM, TNwrestling said:

This has turned into the most boring conversation on this entire forum...

 

..but at least we're not talking about aj anymore. so i guess its still a win. 

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Just like America - this board is clearly out of fresh new ideas for improvement and advancement. 

Edited February 7, 2024 by Rassling

[OMW]

Other than the utilities/digis/cammies, the cuts should start with those ridiculous space force unis...

[bnwtwg]

  On 2/7/2024 at 6:12 PM, VakAttack said:

Clearly somebody has not matriculated their way to the NWT forum.

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That place is anything but boring. Crazy, full of tin foil shaped into little hats, and lacking basic logic beyond a HS diploma a lot of the time but certainly boring.

[Le duke]

  On 2/7/2024 at 6:57 PM, OMW said:

Other than the utilities/digis/cammies, the cuts should start with those ridiculous space force unis...

The Space Force and Air Force wear the same uniform as the Army. OCP.


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[macwoodfleet]

  On 2/7/2024 at 6:13 AM, The_KC_Godfather said:

Yet the federal government still funds Planned Parenthood....

Planned Parenthood received $1.78 billion in taxpayer funds between fiscal years 2019 and 2021 — including $90 million in small-business loans during the COVID-19 pandemic, according to a new government report.

Planned Parenthood Federation of America — the nation’s largest abortion provider — received $1.54 billion in direct payments from Medicare, Medicaid and the Children’s Health Insurance Program, according to a Government Accountability Office report released Tuesday.

The abortion giant also got $148 million through Department of Health and Human Services grants or agreements and $90 million through Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) loans.

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Yes, that money is only allowed to be used for things other than abortions. Birth control, cancer screenings, STD testing, etc. 

[LIV4GOD]

  On 2/5/2024 at 9:29 PM, jchapman said:

The current set of ethics includes creating a world that has bone cancer in children.

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Correct.   But allowing suffering in the world does not make His ethics inferior, but superior.

It HAS to be this way.  

 

[LIV4GOD]

  On 2/6/2024 at 6:16 PM, whaletail said:

I think you're confusing causation with association.  There's a reason credible historians don't cite secularity as a cause of those deaths (and it's naught to do with left wing academia).

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No, I'm not conflating anything.  Credible historians have also argued the opposite, that is, atheism is the direct cause.  

[whaletail]

  On 2/10/2024 at 5:50 PM, LIV4GOD said:

No, I'm not conflating anything.  Credible historians have also argued the opposite, that is, atheism is the direct cause.  

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I'd need to read those arguments before rebutting them, but for clarity's sake, I doubt whether piety or secularism (or atheism if you insist) has ever been the primary impetus for violence.  Greed - for power, money and sex etc., as well as fear and shame are probably always at the center of such tragedies, and ignorance probably explains the rest.

Even horrors typically attributed to religion - the Inquisition among them, surely arose directly from greed, lust, fear and misogyny - not religious faith.

But faith can be an unbelievably powerful weapon (even unintentionally), and as far as I can imagine, in ways that secularism/atheism cannot.

TL;DR

Faith isn't the cause, it's the sword. 

Secularism/atheism isn't a cause, nor much of a sword. Maybe it'll be considered a pen eventually, but these metaphors are quickly becoming an unwieldy mess.

 

[AgaveMaria]

  On 2/7/2024 at 4:39 AM, ionel said:

What write offs?  Ranchers pay for their feed and insurance.  Most are grazing private land but when public they lease the land, the grazing also benefits they land.  I see no subsidy from non meat folk. 

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You must not spend much time on land used for cattle. Rich land doesn't see much of a problem but marginal land does not benefit from cattle or sheep. Don't know about goats or alpacas or other odd animals.(USA)

Cattle are very hard on marginal and dry lands. Especially so on water sources. They wade in and cause a lot of problems with bank collapse and erosion.

Utah built Jordanelle dam and was putting in interpretive signs. Accurate signs detailed the reality of cattle grazing on water holes and streams. A State Legislator who raised cattle forced their removal. Seems accurate information was not wanted and he had the clout to get the signs removed and others put in. (wrestling related as this is near Heber City, home of Cael Sanderson)

 

[TNwrestling]

  On 2/10/2024 at 5:50 PM, LIV4GOD said:

No, I'm not conflating anything.  Credible historians have also argued the opposite, that is, atheism is the direct cause.  

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I dont think ive ever seen a large group of athiests start a war...religion on the other hand....

[PortaJohn]

  On 2/14/2024 at 2:57 PM, TNwrestling said:

I dont think ive ever seen a large group of athiests start a war

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Then you should ask your history teachers to refund your parents the tax payer dollars from your local school district

[TNwrestling]

  On 2/14/2024 at 3:06 PM, PortaJohn said:

Then you should ask your history teachers to refund your parents the tax payer dollars from your local school district

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You're going to sit there, with a straight face, and say that more wars, and more deaths have occurred becuase of athiesm than religion?

[PortaJohn]

  On 2/14/2024 at 3:52 PM, TNwrestling said:

You're going to sit there, with a straight face, and say that more wars, and more deaths have occurred becuase of athiesm than religion?

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You're moving the goal post.  You're exact statement was, "I dont think ive ever seen a large group of athiests start a war...religion on the other hand...."  That's an incorrect statement.  

Edited February 14, 2024 by PortaJohn

[Pinnacle]

  On 2/14/2024 at 3:52 PM, TNwrestling said:

You're going to sit there, with a straight face, and say that more wars, and more deaths have occurred becuase of athiesm than religion?

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Do dictators care more about raw power or religion. I contend it is about raw power for that sordid lot. 

[TNwrestling]

  On 2/14/2024 at 4:06 PM, Pinnacle said:

Do dictators care more about raw power or religion. I contend it is about raw power for that sordid lot. 

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Under the guise of religion. Whether or not their god actually talked to them doesn't really matter. The cloak of religion is the major issue. 

[PortaJohn]

  On 2/14/2024 at 4:07 PM, TNwrestling said:

The cloak of religion is the major issue. 

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The cloak of any propaganda is the real issue.  Nazi's did it in the name of science with their Eugenics program.  Nationalism is another propaganda tool to justify war.  You can propagandize pretty much anything.    Power attracts those who tend to have more narcissistic tendencies.   They will use whatever tool they have in the bag to justify their actions.  Religion is an easy target. We could eradicate all religion tomorrow and those in power will just find new ways of propaganda under the cloak of whatever is trendy at the time.   

[bnwtwg]

  On 2/14/2024 at 4:26 PM, PortaJohn said:

The cloak of any propaganda is the real issue.  Nazi's did it in the name of science with their Eugenics program.  Nationalism is another propaganda tool to justify war.  You can propagandize pretty much anything.    Power attracts those who tend to have more narcissistic tendencies.   They will use whatever tool they have in the bag to justify their actions.  Religion is an easy target. We could eradicate all religion tomorrow and those in power will just find new ways of propaganda under the cloak of whatever is trendy at the time.   

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Counterpoint: