Actual Conservative Policies or Stances?

[ThreePointTakedown]

What are they really? 

Education spending and policy:

National defense spending and foreign policy:

Abortion: 

Gun policy: 

Health Care: 

Social Security: 

Cancel Culture:

Gay marriage: 

Does government actually have a responsibility to the citizens to help or aid in their prosperity?: 

Reparations: 

Environmental Conservation: 

Church vs State:

Because one person does not represent a group, I guess what I'm asking is what are your thoughts on these issues and why?

[ThreePointTakedown]

Just now, ThreePointTakedown said:

What are they really? 

Education spending and policy:

National defense spending and foreign policy:

Abortion: 

Gun policy: 

Health Care: 

Social Security: 

Cancel Culture:

Gay marriage: 

Does government actually have a responsibility to the citizens to help or aid in their prosperity?: 

Reparations: 

Environmental Conservation: 

Church vs State:

Because one person does not represent a group, I guess what I'm asking is what are your thoughts on these issues and why?

Education spending and policy: public school should be funded by something other than property taxes or at least a means by which each school and student has a higher minimum as far as a starting point so as to offer better and more consistent outcomes

National defense spending and foreign policy: we should not be the world's police. it causes more harm than good, in so doing we wouldn't need to spend so much money on defense, contractors will cry foul but that's what happens during a market correction

Abortion: let women consult with their doctors for their health care needs, Catholic church should not be allowed to own hospitals or deny certain types of care

Gun policy: keep em, but hunting and defense weapons should be different, hunting is a deliberate, tactical process and the weapons should reflect that, spraying bullets is not hunting, if you think so, do what everybody else does when they suck at something, lose, try again, get better, other wise everyone could do it(doodly doo to just about every mass shooting), it should be more difficult to kill so quickly. and i know the counter argument is just a 'perfect being the enemy of good' but profit driven gun policy got us in this mess and congress regulates commerce

Health Care: other countries, including our neighbors to the north have universal health care, we need it, more people going to therapy for free would help with the inferiority complex that many people seem to suffer from

Social Security: raise the limit(to infinity) by which social security tax is taken from income

Cancel Culture: as 'alpha' members of the right love to say, 'stop whining, snowflake' they're consequences not censorship. learn the difference.

Gay marriage: no one is making you marry a gay person, let it go

Does government actually have a responsibility to play an active role to the citizens to help or aid in their prosperity?: yes, we can discuss what that means and how it can manifest

Reparations and the effects of systemic oppression: should be an honest discussion with an end goal in mind and how to get there, tied in with education and what 'American Exceptionalism' really means

Environmental Conservation: h$it is getting real, effects are being documented, steps need to be taken, all options need to be on the table except for 'wait and see' 

 

Church vs State:  leave the personal beliefs you hold due to a personal experience that you had, out of government or the decision making process you use to produce or vote for policy that effects people that do not hold your beliefs. If you cannot do that, you shouldn't work in government.  If its an actual thing it shouldn't be that hard to provide evidence, we get in trouble when we just take peoples' word for things when making government policy(ie, George Santos, Richard Nixon(I am not a crook), 45(locker room talk))

[Bigbrog]

1 hour ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

What are they really? 

Education spending and policy:  Education should be offered based on each individual family needs, public and private is cool in my book.  I also think taxes for education could and should be much more sophisticated than a blanketed policy.  For instance we could set-up a system where your tax is based on your family structure...i.e., if you have more kids you pay more and after they graduate from public school you stop paying, and if you don't have kids you don't pay.

National defense spending and foreign policy:  We should do whatever we need to do and spend whatever we need to spend to continue to ensure the safety of the USA.  However, I do feel that there is a TON of waste that could easily be cut out that wouldn't impact us being able to protect the USA.  As for foreign policy, we definitely shouldn't be the world police; however, we need to protect our interests and alliances with other countries in order to maintain our security.

Abortion:  I don't agree with it; however, I also turn off my brain when I think about how complex it is.  I do think it shouldn't be uncontrolled and anyone can get an abortion for any reason.

Gun policy:  This to me is a simple thing.  This is a freedom that our country was founded on and shouldn't be infringed upon; however, again it should be controlled and I am fine with a little more scrutiny given to who actually can purchase a gun.  It is also amazing how people who nothing about guns have such strong feelings about them...including blaming it for the evil things that HUMANS do.

Health Care:  I have no problem with a split system...people want to have government supplied healthcare, then they can elect to get taxed for that service, and those who want the private system we have now can elect to not pay taxes for that and they pay for their own insurance/health care...problem fixed.  And for the private hospitals, the great thing about freedom you can pick and choose which one you go to.

Social Security:  We need to quit steeling from it.  Or I am fine with giving me all the money I put in plus interest and I'll invest my own money

Cancel Culture:  People will continue to say and do stupid things...it shouldn't cause someone their livelihood.  But I am also fine with corporations who do stupid things and the public determines if they want to give their money to them any longer.

Gay marriage:   People should be able to marry whomever the heck they want...doesn't impact me one bit.

Does government actually have a responsibility to the citizens to help or aid in their prosperity?:  Simple....NOPE!

Reparations:  Nope.  We can't atone for the evils of history.  As bad and horrible as it was it was a time in history and society in which it was acceptable...again, doesn't make it right in anyway, but we can't and shouldn't have to pay for a different time in our society.

Environmental Conservation:  We should always care about the environment and do what we can to reduce pollution; however, people have lost their freaking mind about global warming/climate change/whatever the heck the stupid people are going to call it to scare people.  

Church vs State:  I am not a religious person, but also have no idea what the heck people are so scared of when it comes to religion.  Our country was founded based on Christian believes...but I am also a believer that religion should never be "pushed" on people as it is a personal thing; however, to remove it completely from our political environment is stupid...again because that is how this country was founded.

Because one person does not represent a group, I guess what I'm asking is what are your thoughts on these issues and why?

Unlike you I answered based on my opinion and what I think, not assuming what other people think.

[Plasmodium]

 

[WrestlingRasta]

3 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

What are they really? 

Education spending and policy:

National defense spending and foreign policy:

Abortion: 

Gun policy: 

Health Care: 

Social Security: 

Cancel Culture:

Gay marriage: 

Does government actually have a responsibility to the citizens to help or aid in their prosperity?: 

Reparations: 

Environmental Conservation: 

Church vs State:

Because one person does not represent a group, I guess what I'm asking is what are your thoughts on these issues and why?

Education spending and policy: Most important, make the teaching profession a more attractive career choice.  There are a lot of very good people out there with passion for kids and development, but want nothing to do with all the current trimmings that come with being a teacher, for a lower level professional income.  In terms of policy, I believe parents should definitely have a choice of, and voice in, curriculum.  But it should be dictated by true education professionals, not parents, and not bureaucrats  

National defense spending and foreign policy:  I believe we do have a responsibility to the world, but I also believe we take advantage of that responsibility.  I would like us involved more when we are needed by the people we are helping, and less when it’s just because it’s going to benefit us.  Usually, in the long run, it doesn’t  

Abortion: Tough one.  I don’t like abortion for birth control whether it be at 10 weeks or 30.  But I also don’t like the idea that my opinion dictates the medical decision of a woman I’ve never met.  And I’m smart enough to know I don’t know everyone’s situation.  I don’t think there should be any level of federal ban, more of a state issue.  But I don’t know the state should be deciding someone’s medical fate either.  I would like to see any ban be limited to those abortion solely for birth control.  How to execute that?  Got me  

Gun policy: I have guns, believe we all have the right to own them, for self defense and hunting.  The framers didn’t  want to make sure everyone could own guns so they could take a picture with an elephant, it was for food on the table and protect the home and family.  Bigger picture, we’re not going to get this resolved until everyone puts down their stubbornness and acknowledges that it’s both guns and people that kill people, not solely one or the other.  If there’s a gun but no person, no one gets shot.  If there’s people but no gun, no one gets shot.  It’s both.  And until we all can acknowledge that the problem is a combination of access, mental health, diminishing coping skills, and diminishing value of life….well….we can keep pumping the thoughts and prayers.  Lastly, gun ownership should require training.  There are so many things we own and do that requires training, it baffles me using a gun isn’t.  

Health Care: a complicated issue I know that I don’t know enough about to have a strong opinion.  I’ve worked hard, and smart, to get into a position of good insurance, I’ve tried to teach kids the same idea.  

Social Security: it’s been abused and shredded.  Biggest priority for me would be the people that have put so much into it get what they got coming  

Cancel Culture: Stupid social media BS.  Not worth the time.  

Gay marriage: I don’t plan on marrying a man.  Beyond that it’s not my concern.  

Does government actually have a responsibility to the citizens to help or aid in their prosperity?: In the sense of offering a structure that affords the opportunity…..yes.  Responsible for aiding?  I guess it depends on what you mean by aid.  To what level? 

Reparations: In the sense that we all think of it mostly, no.  I think the dude from ‘The Barbershop’ explained it best.  Or listen to Morgan Freeman.  

Environmental Conservation: Another topic I know I don’t know enough about to have a strong opinion. 

Church vs State: Church needs to stay out of government.  There are central values, beliefs, covenants that are across all religions, and can be influence in government decision making, but any specific church/religion should stay out. 

[ThreePointTakedown]

15 hours ago, Bigbrog said:

Unlike you I answered based on my opinion and what I think, not assuming what other people think.

How stressed you must be by creating a controversy that is a lie that you can pretend to rise above.  Talk about inferiority complex. 

[WrestlingRasta]

15 hours ago, Bigbrog said:

Unlike you I answered based on my opinion and what I think, not assuming what other people think.

 

11 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

How stressed you must be by creating a controversy that is a lie that you can pretend to rise above.  Talk about inferiority complex. 

Was the answer hidden?  I don't see it.

[jross]

My answers to OP are here. 

Let's go deeper with questions.

 

Education Spending and Policy:

• Is education a human right?
• If a man has rights, so must other men, so is it every man's duty to guarantee those rights?
• Why are property owners paying a larger share to fund public schooling?
• Why does my neighbor's property taxes pay for my family's K-12 education, not preschool or college?

National Defense Spending and Foreign Policy:

• Is killing always wrong?
• Does military strength correlate with its moral authority?
• Does blowback matter when you have military strength?

Abortion:

• Does every human life count equally?
• What makes someone or something a person?
• How can the 'abortion is murder' person support abortion for situations beyond the mother's health risk?
• If two people understand things differently, who is right?

Gun Policy:

• Should gun policy be put in place to save Republicans from suicide?
  • 86% of all gun suicide deaths from 2001-2021 involved white people 
  • large population of 65y+ white men in non-urban areas 
• Should gun policy be put in place to prevent Democrats from killing Democrats in metro urban areas? 
  • Metro Urban areas have 61% of the population and 74% of the gun homicides 
  • Metro Fringe (Suburb) areas have 25% of the population and 18% of the gun homicides 
  • Rural areas have 15% of the population and 11% of the gun homicides
  • Black boys and men make up 6% of pop. and were involved with 53% of gun homicides from 2018 to 2021
  • ...CDC data pulls

Health Care:

• Is health care a human right?
• Does having a right to healthcare mean one automatically possesses a doctor's services without having to earn or receive them as a gift from the doctor... who has the right to provide them?
• Should my neighbor Gary pay for a stranger's negative lifestyle choices?  (overeating, drugs, self-sabotage) 
• Is cost savings better than innovation?

Social Security:

• Is it intergenerational injustice?
• What is the consequence of the government supporting the people rather than the people supporting the government?

Cancel Culture:

• Why do its users identify as oranges? 

Gay Marriage:

• Why is marriage needed for any of its benefits? 
• Does anyone care if a person gets those benefits?
• Should a transgender couple have adoption priority over a heterosexual couple to meet DEI quotas?

Government Responsibility for Citizens' Prosperity:

• Is the government's main function to defend individuals against those who would take their lives or property by force?
• Is the government the criminal when they take the bread from Gary (by force) and redistribute it to Peter?  

Reparations:

• Is one generation an independent nation from the previous generation?
• What would happen if the victim's heirs returned to the situation before the injustice occurred?
• What type of reparations should there be?  Provided from who to whom?

Environmental Conservation:

• What obligations do we have to future generations?
  • How does the reasoning for this obligation align with the reasoning for social security?
• Is it realistic to balance environmental conservation with economic growth?

Church vs State:

• Why does the dollar say, "In God We Trust?"
• Is the 'God' concept a religion?  Which religion?
• What constitutes religion?

 

[ThreePointTakedown]

Education Spending and Policy:

• Is education a human right? It is the responsibility of the governing to ensure its citizens can carry on the function of the government. So, yes.
• If a man has rights, so must other men, so is it every man's duty to guarantee those rights? Go out of their way to defend them? No. To purposefully infringe on them? Also, no.
• Why are property owners paying a larger share to fund public schooling? Great question, would love to hear your answer.
• Why does my neighbor's property taxes pay for my family's K-12 education, not preschool or college? Also great question. Short answer, we have decided that school through age 16 is mandatory. Thru 12^th grade is a nice round number to stop. College is a luxury, to some, that is not necessary in all case. I agree to the second part. Preschool, is another good question. Studies show that more money spent in pre-K gets paid back many times over in lifetime earnings and production. So we would all be better suited if universal pre-k was a thing.
• Disagree on social safety net vs debt/spending. We could put policies in place so we don't have to choose. 
• Regulations also keep companies from causing huge catastrophes like 2007. There can be a middle ground, but there need to be tangible consequences. Like tough on crime but for corporations. Give them some freedom but break them apart when they run afoul of the law. 

National Defense Spending and Foreign Policy:

• Is killing always wrong? I believe so. The state should not be in the business of killing people, domestically or internationally. We should be past the point where injustice for any reason is tolerated to the point that one group feels their only recourse is violence. That ball just keeps bouncing.
• Does military strength correlate with its moral authority? Might does not make right.
• Does blowback matter when you have military strength? To people with a conscience, it should. To everyone else, they shouldn’t be in that position or quickly taken out and dealt with.

Abortion:

• Does every human life count equally? Loaded question.
• What makes someone or something a person? Not sure.
• How can the 'abortion is murder' person support abortion for situations beyond the mother's health risk? Good point.
• If two people understand things differently, who is right? If the ideas one person has corresponds to that which maps with reality and the other does not, there is a conversation to be had about that. Firstly, does the non-reality person have the capacity to understand that they could be wrong or their information be incorrect? If not, the conversation will be futile.
• Does a person have the right to use my body for their purposes/needs without my consent?
• What criteria would you use to determine legality? 

Gun Policy:

• Should gun policy be put in place to save Republicans from suicide? Oddly specific. If you change it to ‘People’ then, maybe.
  • 86% of all gun suicide deaths from 2001-2021 involved white people 
  • large population of 65y+ white men in non-urban areas We might want to study this issue more to see what the root issue(s) could be. Mental healthcare could be factor.
• Should gun policy be put in place to prevent Democrats from killing Democrats in metro urban areas? Firstly, not all city dwellers are dems or rural dwellers are pubs. The reason to put some policies is to stop loss of life and prevention of injury in certain situations. The topic is nuanced but for the most part guns have a small amount of legal purposes. They should be, as much as possible, kept to those uses.  
  • Metro Urban areas have 61% of the population and 74% of the gun homicides 
  • Metro Fringe (Suburb) areas have 25% of the population and 18% of the gun homicides 
  • Rural areas have 15% of the population and 11% of the gun homicides
  • Black boys and men make up 6% of pop. and were involved with 53% of gun homicides from 2018 to 2021
  • ...CDC data pulls

Health Care:

• Is health care a human right? Similar to education. Yes.
• Does having a right to healthcare mean one automatically possesses a doctor's services without having to earn or receive them as a gift from the doctor... who has the right to provide them? Licensed professionals.
• Should my neighbor Gary pay for a stranger's negative lifestyle choices?  (overeating, drugs, self-sabotage) He already does. But now the argument shifts to your or his opinion of moral. How does this end? Does a smoker offset their lifestyle by working at a crisis prevention line or volunteering at a soup kitchen. Same scenario for every ‘bad’ choice you think is immoral? Who makes that actuarial table? Should we just trust You to decide who is work helping? Also, who’s to say that a few years into universal health care we curb all those things and they don’t exist anymore or in such a small percentage as to be nearly irradicated? Why let your irrational dislike of others keep you from helping? Wouldn’t you want help if you needed it? Would you care who helps or just appreciate it?
• Is cost savings better than innovation? You’re gonna need to expand on that, not sure what you’re asking.
• The word 'affordable' is a nice touch.

Social Security:

• Is it intergenerational injustice? Nope. Just used as a political football because it was successful and thus needs to be dismantled to prove that the system doesn’t work. If given everything it needs plus a hike in the level by which the tax is taken out, it would be even more successful. Not everyone has the wherewithal or the means to save for retirement or bad investments or stock market crash 6 months before retiring. Having a bit of a cushion that you pay into your whole life, that you don’t have to think or worry about, is nice.  
• What is the consequence of the government supporting the people rather than the people supporting the government? Would love to hear your answer to this one.

Cancel Culture:

• Why do its users identify as oranges?  Who?

Gay Marriage:

• Why is marriage needed for any of its benefits? If its not equal its lesser and that is just wrong. Its an idea and piece of paper backed by law. What could possibly be reason enough not to open your arms to any and everyone that wants to be involved in the institution?  
• Does anyone care if a person gets those benefits? The people in those relationships.
• Should a transgender couple have adoption priority over a heterosexual couple to meet DEI quotas? I reject your premise.

Government Responsibility for Citizens' Prosperity:

• Is the government's main function to defend individuals against those who would take their lives or property by force? I would change the last word to ‘unjustly’ but yes.
• Is the government the criminal when they take the bread from Gary (by force) and redistribute it to Peter? Reject the premise. Raising the bar of the minimum starting point that everyone should have in this country, should be the goal of the federal, state, and local government. What we do with that minimum starting point is up to us and our circumstances. But a good amount of people are forgotten, dismissed, or abandoned by those entities before they get a chance in the game. That should bother everyone. We all don’t need a mansion. But for small but growing number of people in your country are left without the means to have even a fighting chance to succeed.

Reparations:

• Is one generation an independent nation from the previous generation? No.
• What would happen if the victim's heirs returned to the situation before the injustice occurred? Huh?
• What type of reparations should there be?  Provided from who to whom? Money. Lots of money. US government because those policies led to the effects that still manifest today. Change laws and punish businesses that have had and may continue to have racist policies, like red lining.

Environmental Conservation:

• What obligations do we have to future generations? Telling question.
  • How does the reasoning for this obligation align with the reasoning for social security? Would love to know how you square this circle?
• Is it realistic to balance environmental conservation with economic growth? For all intents and purposes the metric of economic growth as a barometer for success is wrong. It is a simple number to help convince people who don’t understand economics(which is just about everyone) that things are going well or not. But plenty of things can be going well that would not effect positive growth and likewise the other direction. So, yes it is realistic to balance environmental conservation and a strong economy. What we are lacking is a form of capitalism or the consumer base to influence the markets enough to force large scale change that would be a net benefit to the environment. Its too profitable to maintain the status quo rather than swim upstream.

Church vs State:

• Why does the dollar say, "In God We Trust?" Reject the premise. Which god? Does everyone believe in one god or any? Should we air on the sign of E Pluribus Unum, which is more accurate anyway?
• Is the 'God' concept a religion?  Which religion? Yes. Good question.

What constitutes religion? No sure. But in my opinion religions tend to have little to no evidence of the truths they claim to reveal. They appeal to emotion and clouded judgement. And tend to punish, shun, or excommunicate any and all that push back against the teachings. Think of every cult you know. Who would fall for such BS? So, ya, that!  

most of your answers I would agree with. 

[Husker_Du]

On 12/14/2023 at 10:52 AM, ThreePointTakedown said:

What are they really? 

Education spending and policy:

National defense spending and foreign policy:

Abortion: 

Gun policy: 

Health Care: 

Social Security: 

Cancel Culture:

Gay marriage: 

Does government actually have a responsibility to the citizens to help or aid in their prosperity?: 

Reparations: 

Environmental Conservation: 

Church vs State:

Because one person does not represent a group, I guess what I'm asking is what are your thoughts on these issues and why?

LMFAO @ reparations. 

 

[Husker_Du]

i can't take liberals seriously. 

it's like a disease of the mind. 

[jross]

4 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

Reparations:

• Is one generation an independent nation from the previous generation? No.
• What would happen if the victim's heirs returned to the situation before the injustice occurred? Huh?
• What type of reparations should there be?  Provided from who to whom? Money. Lots of money. US government because those policies led to the effects that still manifest today. Change laws and punish businesses that have had and may continue to have racist policies, like red lining.

...most of your answers I would agree with. 

Thanks for sharing.  What is your reasoning for today's people being responsible for the actions of long-dead people, and for the government to give lots of money?

Where can I learn more about red-lining in 2023?

My current view

• The dead cannot be repaid; the time for reparation is lost.
• Nobody in this generation is responsible for the actions of dead ancestors from generations prior.
• There are economic and well-being considerations that contributed to failed African repatriate movements. 
• Poverty in America has some better things (clean water) than the middle class has access to in some African countries.
• On giving large sums of money
  • No.  Until the government makes progress on paying down its debts and spending within a budget, no money should be given to unfunded causes.
  • No.  We learned about the impact of inflation from the Covid printing press.  Printing money will cause an economic spending spree, followed by a reduction of purchase power and general life affordability.
  • No.  The types of folks that are financially literate do not need the money.  “You don't need to have extraordinary effort to achieve extraordinary results. You just need to do the ordinary, everyday things exceptionally well.”
    • Underpaid teachers are the third highest profession to become millionaires.
    • Look at this janitor who died with 8 million saved.  
    • 79% of millionaires did not get an inheritance.
  • No.  No amount of money will satisfy the financially illiterate. 
    • The dark side of winning the lottery is that it will ruin your life.  
• On the government giving money
  • The government is the people, including victims.
  • There is no practical means to identify the victim, so everyone pays.
  • It is immoral to have the victims pay themselves.

The focus should not be on redistributing money to individual heirs.  Rather, the focus must be on well-funded education and teaching how to do ordinary everyday things exceptionally well.  Not just money for the schools, but programs that surround children with responsible adults outside school.

"It is not what you do for your children, but what you have taught them to do for themselves, that will make them successful human beings."

Edited December 15, 2023 by jross

[jross]

19 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

Gun policy: I have guns, believe we all have the right to own them, for self defense and hunting.  The framers didn’t  want to make sure everyone could own guns so they could take a picture with an elephant, it was for food on the table and protect the home and family.  Bigger picture, we’re not going to get this resolved until everyone puts down their stubbornness and acknowledges that it’s both guns and people that kill people, not solely one or the other.  If there’s a gun but no person, no one gets shot.  If there’s people but no gun, no one gets shot.  It’s both.  And until we all can acknowledge that the problem is a combination of access, mental health, diminishing coping skills, and diminishing value of life….well….we can keep pumping the thoughts and prayers.  Lastly, gun ownership should require training.  There are so many things we own and do that requires training, it baffles me using a gun isn’t.  

Gun Policy:

• Should gun policy be put in place to save Republicans from suicide? Oddly specific. If you change it to ‘People’ then, maybe.
  • 86% of all gun suicide deaths from 2001-2021 involved white people 
  • large population of 65y+ white men in non-urban areas We might want to study this issue more to see what the root issue(s) could be. Mental healthcare could be factor.
• Should gun policy be put in place to prevent Democrats from killing Democrats in metro urban areas? Firstly, not all city dwellers are dems or rural dwellers are pubs. The reason to put some policies is to stop loss of life and prevention of injury in certain situations. The topic is nuanced but for the most part guns have a small amount of legal purposes. They should be, as much as possible, kept to those uses.  
  • Metro Urban areas have 61% of the population and 74% of the gun homicides 
  • Metro Fringe (Suburb) areas have 25% of the population and 18% of the gun homicides 
  • Rural areas have 15% of the population and 11% of the gun homicides
  • Black boys and men make up 6% of pop. and were involved with 53% of gun homicides from 2018 to 2021
  • ...CDC data pulls

Of course, you are correct in the nuance.  But let's make headlines!

Facts

The facts from the CDC are that white people commit suicide.  Within that group, it is white men.  Within white men, it is the older generation.  The facts from PEW are that white men lean Republican, older white men are largely Republican, and rural are significantly Republican.  So, it is the Republican who commits suicide.

• The NCOA reports that elder's suicide reasons are loneliness, grief, loss of self-sufficiency, and chronic illness/pain.  On a serious note, taking care of your health/flexibility and measuring your wealth in relationships over finances throughout life is the ounce of prevention to protect against elder mental health issues.

The facts from the CDC are that large metro urban areas (1M+ people) commit the largest amount of gun homicides by assault.  Point #1: PEW data shows that there are twice as many Democrats than GOP in urban areas.  Point #2.  84% of African Americans are Democrats.  Black boys and men make up 6% of pop. and were involved with 53% of gun homicides from 2018 to 2021.  FBI data shows that violence is largely committed by people of the same race (white on white, black on black, etc.).  So, it is Democrats assaulting Democrats with guns.

 

Breakout of gun deaths.

• 54% suicide
• 43% murder 
  • Note: School shootings are unacceptable and growing.  Also, school shootings are a rounding error (0.3%) in gun murder totals. 2022 had 20K gun murders and 67 deaths on school grounds. 
• 3% accidents, etc.

 

Breakout of guns used in gun murders

• Handguns - 59%
• Unknown - 36% (presumed handguns)
• Rifles, including "assault weapons" - 3%
• Shotguns - 1%

 

Factual Headlines 

• Banning guns from white people could prevent 90% of gun suicides.
• Banning guns in urban metro areas could prevent 74% of gun homicides.
• Banning guns from 6% of the population (black males) could prevent 53% of gun homicides.
• Banning guns in large urban metro areas could prevent 45% of gun homicides.

 

Propaganda Headlines

• Republicans commit more gun violence.
• Rural areas are more dangerous than Cities for gun violence.
• Red states have the larger gun violence problem.
• Banning assault rifles is the most urgent and important issue.
• Democrats don't value My Body, My Choice.
  • Do Republicans have the right to make decisions about their own lives, including the choice to end it?
• All Republicans should own guns.
  • Do woke Democrats recognize that increased gun ownership causes white replacement?
• Urban metro gun bans are racist.
• Suicide is gun violence.
  • Self-harm is not very comparable to harm against others

 

My views

• The gun is an effective tool for protection and food.  Protection includes people, property, and rights (freedom of speech).  
• Tools do not kill people; people kill people with tools.
• The gun is an effective killing tool, which is why it is the man's choice for suicide and assault.
• Tool control, not bans.
  • A good parent has scissors in their house and keeps them out of reach of children who don't know better than to hurt themselves.  With education and maturity, the child gains access to scissors.  Education and maturity should be a requirement for gun ownership.  Gun owners are accountable for responsible gun access.
• There should be severe consequences for pre-planned, intentional crimes committed with guns, including armed robbery.
• If society wants to reduce gun homicides while respecting the Second Amendment, First Things First, it will heavily fund police enforcement in the few blocks of a few urban areas that commit most gun homicides.  At the same time, it will fund jobs, education, and opportunities to change the next generation who dwell there.
• I suspect the Newspaper+Media clicks-for-profit driver greatly influences the increasing cycle of school shootings.  It raises awareness of the tool's effectiveness and individual notoriety.  I wish more people responded to the freedom of the press (to sensationalize and propagandize) with their freedom of choice to stop clicking.... and increase clicks on news with ethical journalists.

[ThreePointTakedown]

On 12/15/2023 at 4:24 PM, Husker_Du said:

i can't take liberals seriously. 

it's like a disease of the mind. 

Do tell. What are your concerns? 

[ThreePointTakedown]

On 12/15/2023 at 6:27 PM, jross said:

Thanks for sharing.  What is your reasoning for today's people being responsible for the actions of long-dead people, and for the government to give lots of money?

Where can I learn more about red-lining in 2023?

My current view

• The dead cannot be repaid; the time for reparation is lost.
• Nobody in this generation is responsible for the actions of dead ancestors from generations prior.
• There are economic and well-being considerations that contributed to failed African repatriate movements. 
• Poverty in America has some better things (clean water) than the middle class has access to in some African countries.
• On giving large sums of money
  • No.  Until the government makes progress on paying down its debts and spending within a budget, no money should be given to unfunded causes.
  • No.  We learned about the impact of inflation from the Covid printing press.  Printing money will cause an economic spending spree, followed by a reduction of purchase power and general life affordability.
  • No.  The types of folks that are financially literate do not need the money.  “You don't need to have extraordinary effort to achieve extraordinary results. You just need to do the ordinary, everyday things exceptionally well.”
    • Underpaid teachers are the third highest profession to become millionaires.
    • Look at this janitor who died with 8 million saved.  
    • 79% of millionaires did not get an inheritance.
  • No.  No amount of money will satisfy the financially illiterate. 
    • The dark side of winning the lottery is that it will ruin your life.  
• On the government giving money
  • The government is the people, including victims.
  • There is no practical means to identify the victim, so everyone pays.
  • It is immoral to have the victims pay themselves.

The focus should not be on redistributing money to individual heirs.  Rather, the focus must be on well-funded education and teaching how to do ordinary everyday things exceptionally well.  Not just money for the schools, but programs that surround children with responsible adults outside school.

"It is not what you do for your children, but what you have taught them to do for themselves, that will make them successful human beings."

Thanks for sharing.  What is your reasoning for today's people being responsible for the actions of long-dead people, and for the government to give lots of money? If we are a nation of laws and justice then we should take these and those crimes and/or injustices seriously; one, because we don’t want them to happen again(despite versions of them still happening), right? Or two, the victims of those injustices are still alive and being further disenfranchised and victims of systemic oppression that has kept them from gaining a foothold in this country and actualizing their right to freedom, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. I’m sorry that you can’t or won’t see the evidence of levers being pulled for and against certain people to aid or hinder their progress. These things DID happen. The effects were and are tangible. I had no hand in their oppression, but I still feel bad and hope to work to make it right. I don’t know what that will end up looking like. But in the meantime, I will advocate for fair treatment through government policy and the punishment of anyone who would attempt to gain from the oppression of others. Not sure why this is such a hot button issue? 

Where can I learn more about red-lining in 2023? I reject your question. I have a feeling you know what I’m talking about and the repercussions of redlining. That refusing to loan money to a group, systematically, based on their physical characteristics, over several generations, will have effects on their ability to build generational wealth(and that we've tied school funding to property taxes, keeping them in low income areas will keep them from getting good and proper education, also keeping them from gaining any ground, crazy how that works). I have a feeling you know that principle. That system was wrong and unjust. That it wasn’t technically illegal should make you ashamed of our country at that time and of those that were in charge. Some people were allowed all the comforts of being a citizen of this country and some were not. The ‘but where does that happen now and why should I care’ question is a tactic to maintain your cognitive dissonance with the issue because I have a feeling the rest of your philosophies wouldn’t mix well.  That you've probably stopped reading at this point. I will just point out to everyone else that they should really research these things themselves. Its not hard to do. Just hard to read that they happened and their continued effects. 

Wells Fargo screwing their customers for years. That was pretty recent. Were their victims incredibly rich people? Probably not. Were they all made whole? Probably not. Were some of their victims put into dire financial circumstances for which they may not be able to escape because of the tactics? Probably. Your question is ignorant or malicious. Which is it?

My current view

• The dead cannot be repaid; the time for reparation is lost. Nope. Estates can be created and endowed. 

•  

   

   

   

  Nobody in this generation is responsible for the actions of dead ancestors from generations prior.  Our responsibility is to address the injustices of the past, acknowledge them and make amends as best we can. Ignoring them, as it seems you're in favor of, only sees further suffering of those that are currently effected by those injustices. That there are current sufferers is also something you choose not to acknowledge or are comfortable ignoring. 

   

   

• There are economic and well-being considerations that contributed to failed African repatriate movements. Do tell?
• Poverty in America has some better things (clean water) than the middle class has access to in some African countries. Sort of telling that you only mention African countries as if they were the only victims here. Native American lands don’t have great infrastructure to speak of in some places, means not reliable fresh water, Flint is in the USA, a Republican government installed a manager(some would say unjustly) that went and poisoned the whole town.
• On giving large sums of money
  • No.  Until the government makes progress on paying down its debts and spending within a budget, no money should be given to unfunded causes. I don’t think you really mean this. I have a feeling you would rather see money go to those you feel deserve it more. If more people in the last 150 years or so were given the opportunity to grow their wealth and invest in our country, we might not be in the situation we are in now. So you’re saying rather than right that wrong and perhaps help in the areas you feel are more needed. You just say ‘screw em until me and my friends get ours’? Seems a little self-defeating, greedy, and selfish.  
  • No.  We learned about the impact of inflation from the Covid printing press.  Printing money will cause an economic spending spree, followed by a reduction of purchase power and general life affordability. No idea what you mean by this. But if we taxed people who could easily afford it because of their incredible wealth(some of that wealth being spent as an insurance policy to help influence and write laws that help them keep and accrue more wealth) and do it to the tune of what everyone else has to pay we could probably pay for more and better things for everyone and not be in so much debt.
  • No.  The types of folks that are financially literate do not need the money.  “You don't need to have extraordinary effort to achieve extraordinary results. You just need to do the ordinary, everyday things exceptionally well.” Fair point. Where does the literacy come from? Previous generations that have succeeded and passed down that knowledge. Which groups, that have not had widespread success due to the decks being consistently stacked against them were/are able to pass down that knowledge? Can you list any?
    • Underpaid teachers are the third highest profession to become millionaires. Where’d you get that? Which teachers? What grade(s)? College professors? Where do they teach, what’s the breakdown? Just throwing out a figure like that doesn't answer any questions or helps you make your point. 
    • Look at this janitor who died with 8 million saved. Do you know what an outlier is and why they are not included in studies or statistics?
    • 79% of millionaires did not get an inheritance. What can be asserted without evidence can be disregarded without evidence. 
  • No.  No amount of money will satisfy the financially illiterate. I don’t disagree. But that is not a reason to avoid trying to make things right. And reeks of privilege wanting to stay privileged.  
    • The dark side of winning the lottery is that it will ruin your life.  Again not a reason to avoid righting a wrong.
• On the government giving money
  • The government is the people, including victims. Companies are not people because a company cannot go to prison. Government is the same way. Trying to tie them together to ease your guilt about helping is a dishonest tactic.
  • There is no practical means to identify the victim, so everyone pays. Yes. That is something we will need to address. I don’t care who gets it. Its like UBI, give enough to enough people and then we can do what you wanted to do all along. Which is to let them figure it out. Once they’re at an even starting point, it’ll be up to them, just like you wanted all along.
  • It is immoral to have the victims pay themselves. That’s a dumb attempt to invalidate an argument by purposefully making it circular. I see your word salad and raise you some croutons.
  • The country is turning, has effectively turned into an oligarchy. Corporations and uber rich individuals are competing for a smaller and smaller piece of what pie is left. They do research to find out how to sell their products better and more effectively(often times those products aren’t a net benefit). This is symptom of the free market. I’m sorry but I don’t agree that corporations should be able to make a profit if they are not doing a net good to benefit the community they reside in. Will that hurt current business models? Probably. Will they still want to make money? Probably. That means they will change. I’m ok with that.

The focus should not be on redistributing money to individual heirs.  Rather, the focus must be on well-funded education and teaching how to do ordinary everyday things exceptionally well.  Not just money for the schools, but programs that surround children with responsible adults outside school. Lets do these too.

"It is not what you do for your children, but what you have taught them to do for themselves, that will make them successful human beings." Painting with an overly broad brush is your MO.

 

[jross]

17 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

• On giving large sums of money
  • No.  Until the government makes progress on paying down its debts and spending within a budget, no money should be given to unfunded causes. I don’t think you really mean this. I have a feeling you would rather see money go to those you feel deserve it more. If more people in the last 150 years or so were given the opportunity to grow their wealth and invest in our country, we might not be in the situation we are in now. So you’re saying rather than right that wrong and perhaps help in the areas you feel are more needed. You just say ‘screw em until me and my friends get ours’? Seems a little self-defeating, greedy, and selfish.  

 

Thanks for the discourse. I hear what you are saying about injustice... I just have an honest *conservative take that focuses on fiscal responsibility and the need for the government to have a balanced budget.  Like with your reparation preferred spending, my preferred spending must take a back seat.  *See the I side with discussion

Once, my wife and I accumulated debt, spending $1500 a month carelessly. We audited the cause.  We tested a frugal lifestyle, buying bulk pork, and saved $1000 monthly. I don't like pork for all meals!  We recalibrated to live within our means and increased spending within a balanced budget.   The government is spending outside its means and must recalibrate. 

The slaves, spouses, and children of slaves are dead.  That fact, along with the historical distance to descendants, has reduced the priority of reparations from Urgent & Important to Not Urgent & Not Important for budget consideration.  (See First Things First book on priorities).

What is important now is enabling success for all those in need and that goes beyond descendants of slaves.

[jross]

2 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

Where can I learn more about red-lining in 2023? I reject your question...

Wells Fargo screwing their customers for years. 

Redlining - I know what it was.  There are still places in my metro with notable race divisions by streets/neighborhood.  You know more about the topic than me.  I googled and didn't find much current information, and I am ignorant of redlining in 2023.  I looked again and found this article.  Redlining started in the 1930s and was made illegal in the 1968 Fair Housing Act and the 1977 Community Reinvestment Act (CRA).

My experience has always been that credit scores show you are trustworthy, and financial information validates you have the funds.  I'm sure you could find misconduct and justified lawsuits... but few and far between.

It violates the golden rule to redistribute tens of thousands of dollars from innocent taxpayers to 'balance' the net worths based on race or other factors.

Merit.  Merit.  Merit.  Teach how to have Merit.  Work hard for Merit.  

Wells Fargo - I am not following that story about how people were impacted and if/how justice was served.  Do say more, and include if this is a rampant problem of urgent importance.

[jross]

This article makes a strong case for credit scores being discriminatory.  It discusses race, wealth, and predatory loans.

Is not everyone targeted with predatory loans?  I recall the excitement of acquiring and maxing out my first credit cards as a young man... until I recognized my minimum payments over a couple of years had only paid the interest and summed to greater than my balance.  I was late on payments, and WOW!  WTF!  Who did this to me?  Answer?  I did!  I never used a payday loan or anything after that initial experience... and I learned what a credit score was when the loan rates qualified for me were much higher than advertised.  

Could credit ratings be improved?  Absolutely, but...

Everyone, regardless of their background, has the opportunity to manage their finances responsibly and build a positive credit history over time.

Live like no one does now so you can live like no one does later!

[jross]

12 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

"It is not what you do for your children, but what you have taught them to do for themselves, that will make them successful human beings." Painting with an overly broad brush is your MO. (etc. etc.)

TL;DR

I prioritize individualism as written in the Constitution. The quote "Teaching self-sufficiency leads to success" aligns with my values as a father and my vision for a self-sufficient America. I advocate for empowerment, personal responsibility, education, and voluntary giving back. Being an individualist doesn't mean avoiding helping others; it's about respecting choices without imposing mandates on others. My views reflect both individualism and fiscal conservatism without dismissing social welfare concerns.

 

Long-form

Individualism is very important to me, and I stress it to my children.  Its principles enable more people to control their future.  Merit.  Merit.  Merit.

Key principles/features

• Autonomy to make decisions about my life without coercion 
• Individual rights.  Speech, Bear Arms, Religion, Property, etc.
• Limited government that protects me from others and does little else.
• Free market capitalism
• Merit. Success from skill, effort, and achievements rather than class, service, and inherited privilege.
• Responsibility for the consequences of our choices.
• Support diversity in values and perspectives where people can coexist.  Think of small local areas and states rather than nation(s) or the world.

This ideology is baked into the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

This quote aligns with my values well. 

"It is not what you do for your children, but what you have taught them to do for themselves, that will make them successful human beings."

I have naturally defined my success as a father as raising my children to be successful and self-sufficient adults.  Similarly, I view a success of America in raising self-sufficient citizens.

• Empowerment, not Dependent
• Self-reliant and Personally responsible, no deflection and excuse
• Education and training... alignment with social welfare on this topic
• Personal growth.  Goals.  Initiative.  Diligence.  Discipline. Persistence.  Resilience.  Commitment.  Learn how to learn.
• Giving back because you can and want to, where you want to.

Being an individualist does not preclude a willingness to help others voluntarily.  I respect everyone's right to choose the best choice for self, not to mandate choice for others.

I'm not dismissing social welfare and vulnerable populations; rather, I am sharing honest views from both an individualist and fiscal conservatist ideology.  

[ThreePointTakedown]

17 hours ago, jross said:

This article makes a strong case for credit scores being discriminatory.  It discusses race, wealth, and predatory loans.

Is not everyone targeted with predatory loans?  I recall the excitement of acquiring and maxing out my first credit cards as a young man... until I recognized my minimum payments over a couple of years had only paid the interest and summed to greater than my balance.  I was late on payments, and WOW!  WTF!  Who did this to me?  Answer?  I did!  I never used a payday loan or anything after that initial experience... and I learned what a credit score was when the loan rates qualified for me were much higher than advertised.  

Could credit ratings be improved?  Absolutely, but...

Everyone, regardless of their background, has the opportunity to manage their finances responsibly and build a positive credit history over time.

Live like no one does now so you can live like no one does later!

All this is predicated on being able to get a credit card when you're young. Not everyone has that opportunity or the realized or unrealized safety net of family to fall back on, which, if I had to guess, you had. Credit card companies don't like to gamble on someone with no credit history, no family credit history, or myriad of factors that have lead to someone not being ideal for credit. Seems to relate a bit to the, I don't know, systemic actions that have kept certain peoples from being able to elevate their station. And the effect NOW is they can't get credit to help build wealth and invest. Funny how it all comes back around. There are still victims, today. We just call them something different. 

The pattern in your stories tend to leave out the fact that, from the start, you probably had advantages that a good and growing percentage of people did and do not have. And the take away that you wrap them up in is 'if I did it this way, why can't everyone? Am I right?!' Short answer is, that for some people, you were born on third. 

[Bigbrog]

6 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

All this is predicated on being able to get a credit card when you're young. Not everyone has that opportunity or the realized or unrealized safety net of family to fall back on, which, if I had to guess, you had. Credit card companies don't like to gamble on someone with no credit history, no family credit history, or myriad of factors that have lead to someone not being ideal for credit. Seems to relate a bit to the, I don't know, systemic actions that have kept certain peoples from being able to elevate their station. And the effect NOW is they can't get credit to help build wealth and invest. Funny how it all comes back around. There are still victims, today. We just call them something different. 

The pattern in your stories tend to leave out the fact that, from the start, you probably had advantages that a good and growing percentage of people did and do not have. And the take away that you wrap them up in is 'if I did it this way, why can't everyone? Am I right?!' Short answer is, that for some people, you were born on third. 

Wow...you claim others of having a "MO"...you ASSuming things about people is your "MO".  Funny part is you "think" you are fighting for the oppressed when in actuality you are doing no one any good with the things you say.  Here is a hint, people that are less fortunate than others don't need you making excuses for them.  Excuse after excuse.  By the way, it isn't a person's fault if they had a good family to fall back on.  It isn't anyone's fault if they worked hard to get themselves out of a bad situation. 

I too was in jross' position when I was younger, almost exactly the same position, a lot of debt and missed payments from extremely high interest rate credit cards and loans (I had no debt history, nor did my family), but I didn't have any of the things you claimed he had, and I was still able to get out of the debt I racked up...how...through working multiple jobs, getting a degree, and learning how to budget with absolutely ZERO help from anyone else.

Let's see if you can work in reality and facts instead of pure emotion...who are the "victims still today"?   And I ask based on policies in place today, or "systemic actions" that occur today.  Please provide actual evidence of this.

[jross]

1 hour ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

All this is predicated on being able to get a credit card when you're young. Not everyone has that opportunity or the realized or unrealized safety net of family to fall back on, which, if I had to guess, you had. Credit card companies don't like to gamble on someone with no credit history, no family credit history, or myriad of factors that have lead to someone not being ideal for credit. Seems to relate a bit to the, I don't know, systemic actions that have kept certain peoples from being able to elevate their station. And the effect NOW is they can't get credit to help build wealth and invest. Funny how it all comes back around. There are still victims, today. We just call them something different. 

The pattern in your stories tend to leave out the fact that, from the start, you probably had advantages that a good and growing percentage of people did and do not have. And the take away that you wrap them up in is 'if I did it this way, why can't everyone? Am I right?!' Short answer is, that for some people, you were born on third. 

More details

• Worked since I was 14, including two jobs at times
• Credit card companies gave cards to adults with little or no income in the 90s.  I filled out my form to get a free event t-shirt.  The credit card max was low; the interest was high.  Predatory.
• I paid off my credit card
• I secured and paid the high-interest car loan.  
• Ate a lot of ramen noodles and a lot of end-of-night free gas station pizza

My folks made it known that I'd needed to go my own way at 18.  Mom redid my room within the first month I moved out.  Dad was killed when I was 20...  which was the most significant moment of turning me into a man.  I highly advise against using that method as an educational tool.  Have always had 1-5 roommates.  Married at 22... kids at 25...  reasons to live and be responsible... 

You are right that if things had hit the fan, I would have a couch to sleep on somewhere... but I've had two legs, two arms, a brain, and diligence, too. 

My dad worked hard, and that helped.  He said I should work hard but also take the services offered by the government if I ever needed them since I was paying for them.... something one of my sisters has done multiple times before finally adulting successfully (including coming back from bankruptcy).  We were not poor, but I didn't know it.  We did Christmas in my grandmother's trailer in Arkansas.  I did get a budget of $150 for clothing each school year.  I would select 1-2 quality items... my middle sister would get 10 pairs of jeans from a thrift store.  The house I grew up in had a trailer foundation and a real house built on top.  The problem is half the house burnt down... which is the condition Dad bought it in and fixed back up on his own.  I don't know my dad as a talker... I was a kid... but I had the pleasure of witnessing successful individualism.

I'm a slow thinker but that hasn't stopped me from working hard and getting smarter.  You wouldn't believe the number of how-to, etc., books I have.  A wall of books on shelves and piles of books on the floor that need pruning.  

...it is truth that the system allows success... just sometimes you need one adult to show that opportunity or to model it.

Edited December 19, 2023 by jross

[mspart]

4 hours ago, jross said:

I'm a slow thinker but that hasn't stopped me from working hard and getting smarter. 

Slow thinking and smart are not necessarily related. 

mspart

[ThreePointTakedown]

7 hours ago, Bigbrog said:

Wow...you claim others of having a "MO"...you ASSuming things about people is your "MO".  Funny part is you "think" you are fighting for the oppressed when in actuality you are doing no one any good with the things you say.  Here is a hint, people that are less fortunate than others don't need you making excuses for them.  Excuse after excuse.  By the way, it isn't a person's fault if they had a good family to fall back on.  It isn't anyone's fault if they worked hard to get themselves out of a bad situation. 

I too was in jross' position when I was younger, almost exactly the same position, a lot of debt and missed payments from extremely high interest rate credit cards and loans (I had no debt history, nor did my family), but I didn't have any of the things you claimed he had, and I was still able to get out of the debt I racked up...how...through working multiple jobs, getting a degree, and learning how to budget with absolutely ZERO help from anyone else.

Let's see if you can work in reality and facts instead of pure emotion...who are the "victims still today"?   And I ask based on policies in place today, or "systemic actions" that occur today.  Please provide actual evidence of this.

Wow...you claim others of having a "MO"...you ASSuming things about people is your "MO".  Funny part is you "think" you are fighting for the oppressed when in actuality you are doing no one any good with the things you say.  Here is a hint, people that are less fortunate than others don't need you making excuses for them.  Excuse after excuse.  By the way, it isn't a person's fault if they had a good family to fall back on.  It isn't anyone's fault if they worked hard to get themselves out of a bad situation. Your opinions of whether I am helping aside. I fail to see how I am making excuses. I was and continue to point out that the opinions that people hold on certain topics may be skewed by their own unique experience. That those opinions could lead them to vote against their own and the interest of others in dire need. We all need to the clarity of a different perspective once in a while. If left to just what is easy or makes us comfortable and happy we could find ourselves holding some pretty bleak views. We could lose empathy or sympathy in the plight of those in less fortuitous circumstances then our own. And forget that to help raise the least among us we help to raise all.

I too was in jross' position when I was younger, almost exactly the same position, a lot of debt and missed payments from extremely high interest rate credit cards and loans (I had no debt history, nor did my family), but I didn't have any of the things you claimed he had, and I was still able to get out of the debt I racked up...how...through working multiple jobs, getting a degree, and learning how to budget with absolutely ZERO help from anyone else. Seems as though you went through some tough years. You are proud of the person that came out the other side. And you do seem a little edgy when someone you feel was in a similar situation as you is challenged. As if you’re taking that challenge on as if I am questioning you or your experience. I’m sorry you feel that way. I make guesses about j mostly because we’ve had a lengthy dialogue on a number of topics and I have noticed(maybe mistakenly) a theme is several of the examples they have put forward. It seems as if you are trying to brag that you had no help with anything. That doesn’t sound fun or appealing or something I would wish on anyone given the chance, so I'm sorry. I’m glad you were able to make something of yourself under those circumstances. I hope you don’t have the opinion that because you made something of yourself from little to nothing that everyone in similar or worse circumstances is undeserving of help that may have eased your way a bit? If that is true, I would love to understand your position. If not, I’m glad you feel that way. I look forward to understanding you and your situation better.

Let's see if you can work in reality and facts instead of pure emotion...who are the "victims still today"?   And I ask based on policies in place today, or "systemic actions" that occur today.  Please provide actual evidence of this. Do you understand what ‘moving the goal posts’ means? You are framing the argument as if a systemic problem that goes back 100+ years should only be looked at in terms of the policies of now. I understand that it is easier and less upsetting to ignore the terrible acts of past leaders of this country. But those things happened. The effects of those actions and policies still echo today. That you may be uninterested in acknowledging or righting such a massive injustice is unfortunate and as is your right to have that opinion. But wounds don’t heal if they are ignored. If you’re ok with that then you can yell at the top of your lungs against addressing anything other then what is right in front of you.

To answer your question, it is the lack of policies to acknowledge, study, and discuss the atrocities of the past that are the issue and how much one side wants to fight in order to avoid addressing heinous instances from our past. Certain areas of certain places were acted on to keep those people from gaining upward mobility. I have a feeling you know that’s true. That these policies and practices are no longer legal or practiced as widely does not take away that the long term effects are being felt today. If not direct money to people, which could help greatly for some. Money to rebuild schools, infrastructure, libraries, investment in local businesses, something as simple as a grocery store. These are all things that would not fix the problem tomorrow but would indicate to those in the community that they are no longer thought of a second class. Will that take away money from those that already have these things? Very probably. Will they be outraged? Of course. Will they probably do just fine without for a little while? Almost assuredly.  Equality to privilege feels like oppression. 

[jross]

What do you @ThreePointTakedown say concerning Thomas Sowell?

Is his success stemming from privilege and does he lack heart?

A poor, fatherless African American with a net worth better than the average Joe?

Would you believe a man could be born in the 1930s, manage college in the 1950s and 60s, and be successful? 

He holds libertarian-conservative views.  He warned about the unintended consequences of reparations, including perpetuating a victim mentality and creating divisions among different racial or ethnic groups. 

Supports the open market.  Values education.  Social welfare skeptic.  Values individualism. 

Critical of high taxes and government spending?  

I didn't know much about Thomas... Wowza he nailed the recent presidents

• Didn't want Trump as president in 2016
• By 2018, said Trump was better than the previous administration
• If Biden became president, the Democratic Party would have an enormous amount of control over the nation, and if this happened, they could twin with the "radical left" and ideas such as defunding the police could come to fruition.

It's almost as if... he is chanting with me on this BBS... MERIT, MERIT, MERIT!