1032004 Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, BigRedFan said: Got it. You think that he was gassed in a dual meet against Sacred Heart in less than two minutes, because he adjusted his kneepad and singlet and took his time returning to the center of the mat. He did this in all his matches last year, and he then went on to win the U20 US Open and the U20 World Championship despite his conditioning issue. Here's him gassed all of :23 seconds into his first match at the U20 world championship. How he managed to get through the day is truly impressive what with all his conditioning issues. Just watched that Japan match, he pulled his knee pad up for like a second. Big difference between that and taking like 10 seconds to completely take your headgear off and put it back on, which he did in the Cardenas match as well between the first and second periods. Also several instances of being slow to get back to the center for restart, which Pyles acknowledged at least once in that match also. I don’t know if conditioning is an issue overall for him, I’d think not based on his world title, but it sure seemed like he was gassed at times at CKLV. You of course are welcome to disagree. Edited December 4, 2023 by 1032004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H82Lose Posted December 5, 2023 Author Share Posted December 5, 2023 Dear Mr. and Mrs. Shapiro, I am not accusing your kid of being gassed, I was truly asking if he was hurt. You can HEAR the coaches saying push through it or something like that. I think he is a stud, and I think he is an AA candidate. I also am not accusing the coaches of not looking out for his health and telling him to wrestle even though he was hurt. It was just odd to me, I watched him grimace a few times during the last match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPhillips Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 7 hours ago, 1032004 said: You of course are welcome to disagree. I made an innocuous statement a few days ago regarding Vito and BigRed found away to become offended... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ugarles Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 he didn't look right in the cardenas match but he looked way off against chumbley. everything seemed to take forever and i was diagnosing him as concussed from my office. i'm no expert so i'm mostly making fun of myself but it wasn't a post-hoc excuse for losing. i was wondering why he was still out there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerlock3 Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 1 minute ago, ugarles said: he didn't look right in the cardenas match but he looked way off against chumbley. everything seemed to take forever and i was diagnosing him as concussed from my office. i'm no expert so i'm mostly making fun of myself but it wasn't a post-hoc excuse for losing. i was wondering why he was still out there. no way the Cornell staff pushes their golden goose out their if he's significantly concussed. Unless he hid it from them... To repeat myself in the form of a question, how often has he lost in the last 5 years? I think he just isn't used to it. 1 "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPhillips Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 1 minute ago, Hammerlock3 said: no way the Cornell staff pushes their golden goose out their if he's significantly concussed. "Tough wrestling" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortaJohn Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 3 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said: no way the Cornell staff pushes their golden goose out their if he's significantly concussed. Unless he hid it from them... To repeat myself in the form of a question, how often has he lost in the last 5 years? I think he just isn't used to it. Didn't Kyle Dake say concussions are only a state of mind 1 I Don't Agree With What I Posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerlock3 Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 1 minute ago, MPhillips said: "Tough wrestling" thats not argument, unless you think the cornell staff is stupid. "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerlock3 Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 Just now, PortaJohn said: Didn't Kyle Dake say concussions are only a state of mind i've never heard that, so i can't meaningfully respond. "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPhillips Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 7 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said: thats not argument, unless you think the cornell staff is stupid. Not everyone who quotes you is looking to argue... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerlock3 Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 Just now, MPhillips said: Not everyone who quotes you is looking to argue... i'll amend, that response doesn't further the discussion. "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortaJohn Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 11 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said: i've never heard that, so i can't meaningfully respond. He hasn't said it yet. But he will in the future when he gets younger 1 I Don't Agree With What I Posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPhillips Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 1 minute ago, Hammerlock3 said: i'll amend, that response doesn't further the discussion. I agree. I plead levity. Mea culpa... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ugarles Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 (edited) 16 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said: no way the Cornell staff pushes their golden goose out their if he's significantly concussed. Unless he hid it from them... i think it is the competitive nature of athletes to say they're good to go. i don't think anyone on staff was putting him in danger with ill-intent or recklessness. i'm just a couchside critic, but i thought he looked loopy against chumbley and kept gamely trying to continue despite appearing lethargic out of proportion to what you'd expect from someone with his history of success and endurance. when ramirez got concussed against ogunsanya as a freshman, he continued - he even got the first takedown after the break - but he eventually had to quit the match and take some time off. he didn't really look right again until EIWA. kids want to compete and coaches want to let them. competitive fire can be blinders even for the most concientious of us. Edited December 5, 2023 by ugarles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ugarles Posted December 7, 2023 Share Posted December 7, 2023 In his recap to the fans, this is what Coach Grey had to say: Quote 157- Meyer finished 2-2 on the weekend with his highlight being a 16-4 major decision over #3 Bryce Andonian from Virginia Tech. Meyer needs to wrestle a bit more basic and move away from some of his freestyle tendencies. He has all the skill to dominate. We just need to help him organize his techniques a bit more. I'm not concerned in the slightest because I know the type of competitor Meyer is deep down. He was not happy with his performance and I look forward to his rebound in Nashville. Nothing about injury or gas tank, focused on technique. I guess we'll see! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1032004 Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerlock3 Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 yeah that looks bad. i don't think there was a very obvious stopping point in the match....but thats about all you can say for the staff.... "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gimpeltf Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 I'll play a little devil's advocate here. And for full disclosure, I've known Mike for a long time (before HS) and know the trainer, Chris. Chris came to me at other events to pull kids, so I know it's not a pattern. You couldn't see the original head hit on the mat. And the issues later weren't so much while wrestling as when the ref would blow the whistle and he took his time getting up. He attacked and defended. So maybe he was tired or recovering from something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerlock3 Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 there is another explanation as well. we tend to think of these kids as being tough all the time, but its possible thats just what he looks like when he's having a bad practice and the coaches know it. I'm not claiming that, just floating it as possible. "Half measures are a coward's form of insanity." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedFan Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 13 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said: there is another explanation as well. we tend to think of these kids as being tough all the time, but its possible thats just what he looks like when he's having a bad practice and the coaches know it. I'm not claiming that, just floating it as possible. Shapiro hadn't lost a match (free or folk) in like three years, so who knows. And Cornell's trainer knows all about concussions, given that Foca had two and Ramirez one in 2022. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1032004 Posted December 13, 2023 Share Posted December 13, 2023 1 hour ago, gimpeltf said: I'll play a little devil's advocate here. And for full disclosure, I've known Mike for a long time (before HS) and know the trainer, Chris. Chris came to me at other events to pull kids, so I know it's not a pattern. You couldn't see the original head hit on the mat. And the issues later weren't so much while wrestling as when the ref would blow the whistle and he took his time getting up. He attacked and defended. So maybe he was tired or recovering from something. I’m no doctor, and without seeing the initial hit, I can forgive letting him continue after that. But that combined with being wobbly on multiple occasions afterwards, a concussion has to be the most likely scenario unless there’s a specific explanation, which Grey did not provide. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingcement Posted December 14, 2023 Share Posted December 14, 2023 My junior year of high school I had three concussions (with one of them being an extremely bad one) in a single year - after the third one, my dribbling ability in soccer considerably dropped off for about 3-6 months. It was like I lost a level of coordination for a good chunk of the year. It made a surprising impact on me physically that I never anticipated 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1032004 Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 On 12/13/2023 at 5:56 PM, BigRedFan said: Shapiro hadn't lost a match (free or folk) in like three years, so who knows. And Cornell's trainer knows all about concussions, given that Foca had two and Ramirez one in 2022. If Foca had 2 in one season...is it possible he wasn't fully recovered from the first before getting the second? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gimpeltf Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 7 minutes ago, 1032004 said: If Foca had 2 in one season...is it possible he wasn't fully recovered from the first before getting the second? One was EIWAs, I believe Chris's freshman year. And their trainer (Also Chris) went through the whole process and pulled him in Semis. He was able to get back to NCAAs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 (edited) On 12/4/2023 at 8:11 PM, Hammerlock3 said: no way the Cornell staff pushes their golden goose out their if he's significantly concussed. Unless he hid it from them... To repeat myself in the form of a question, how often has he lost in the last 5 years? I think he just isn't used to it. NLWC coaches let a clearly concussed Taylor wrestle in World semis and finals. Of course Taylor wanted to go, and he's an adult, but he wouldn't have been allowed to continue in the NFL. In fact, he would have been done even in boxing or MMA. Edited December 15, 2023 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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