AgaveMaria Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 Watched a match at Cliff Keen with Teemer of ASU. A lot of backing while setting up his takedowns. As a result was called for stalling a few times. Each time it seemed he shortly used his backing to get a takedown off the opponent initiating a move. Does this style of wrestling really warrant continued stall calls? He was not backing to get away from an opponents moves but to set up his own which he did well each time. Any wiggle room for Referees in this type of defensive counter wrestling? ” Never attribute to inspiration that which can be adequately explained by delusion”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grecojones Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 3 minutes ago, AgaveMaria said: Watched a match at Cliff Keen with Teemer of ASU. A lot of backing while setting up his takedowns. As a result was called for stalling a few times. Each time it seemed he shortly used his backing to get a takedown off the opponent initiating a move. Does this style of wrestling really warrant continued stall calls? He was not backing to get away from an opponents moves but to set up his own which he did well each time. Any wiggle room for Referees in this type of defensive counter wrestling? I’m not sure how much is at the refs discretion… but yea it’s tough. Too easy to abuse if you don’t call it /shrug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1032004 Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 21 minutes ago, AgaveMaria said: Watched a match at Cliff Keen with Teemer of ASU. A lot of backing while setting up his takedowns. As a result was called for stalling a few times. Each time it seemed he shortly used his backing to get a takedown off the opponent initiating a move. Does this style of wrestling really warrant continued stall calls? He was not backing to get away from an opponents moves but to set up his own which he did well each time. Any wiggle room for Referees in this type of defensive counter wrestling? Backing up is stalling. Waiting for an opponent to shoot so you can counter is stalling. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lipdrag Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 6 hours ago, 1032004 said: Backing up is stalling. Waiting for an opponent to shoot so you can counter is stalling. Agree. Also, a counter takedown should not be the same points as an initiated takedown. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgaveMaria Posted December 3, 2023 Author Share Posted December 3, 2023 You guys are nuts. Using an opponents moves against them takes talent and timing. Just like a counter puncher in boxing. Why penalize a competitor just because they don't do the way you think is right? Backing and moving to set up an opponent is not running from an opponent. It is not running off the mat. 1 ” Never attribute to inspiration that which can be adequately explained by delusion”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1032004 Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 3 hours ago, AgaveMaria said: You guys are nuts. Using an opponents moves against them takes talent and timing. Just like a counter puncher in boxing. Why penalize a competitor just because they don't do the way you think is right? Backing and moving to set up an opponent is not running from an opponent. It is not running off the mat. Executing a counter takedown is not stalling, but you need to also be working your own, it’s literally under the definition of stalling - “continue wrestling in an attempt to secure a takedown.” Just waiting for the other guy to do something is not attempting to secure a takedown. Running off the mat is also stalling (it’d be fleeing the mat in high school), but so is backing up repeatedly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randyfoxwell Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 If everyone was a counter wrestler, no one would ever watch the sport 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio Elite Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 8 minutes ago, randyfoxwell said: If everyone was a counter wrestler, no one would ever watch the sport True story.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gimpeltf Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 25 minutes ago, randyfoxwell said: If everyone was a counter wrestler, no one would ever watch the sport If no one ever shot- no one would ever learn how to counter- so this is a meaningless exercise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio Elite Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 12 minutes ago, gimpeltf said: If no one ever shot- no one would ever learn how to counter- so this is a meaningless exercise. True as well lol. When you get 2 counter wrestlers it usually a boring match. But when those guys pull the trigger though, alot of fireworks can fly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randyfoxwell Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 34 minutes ago, gimpeltf said: If no one ever shot- no one would ever learn how to counter- so this is a meaningless exercise. Don't think it's meaningless. Noone wants to watch 2 defensive wrestlers go against each other. If you aren't creating offense you are stalling, which is what this post was about. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gimpeltf Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 5 minutes ago, randyfoxwell said: Don't think it's meaningless. Noone wants to watch 2 defensive wrestlers go against each other. If you aren't creating offense you are stalling, which is what this post was about. You missed my point. You clearly said everyone. If neither wrestler in a match- yes. You just went overboard in your statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 What if both guys back up in order to set up their takedowns? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 46 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said: What if both guys back up in order to set up their takedowns? Then we know where they trained. 4 Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gimpeltf Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said: Then we know where they trained. My favorite line in that is when Tom Ryan says he'd rather send his kid to Michigan camp! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, gimpeltf said: My favorite line in that is when Tom Ryan says he'd rather send his kid to Michigan camp! Love that one too. Also love shooters mop. Edited December 3, 2023 by Wrestleknownothing Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forkemaz Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 I'm am ASU fan and Jacori does not need to back peddle like that for the entire match for "his style" it looked like he realized he could get away with it and it allowed him go save energy for his explosive stuff. Was clear as day stalling IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lipdrag Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 4 hours ago, gimpeltf said: My favorite line in that is when Tom Ryan says he'd rather send his kid to Michigan camp! For every action there is an inaction. Physics. Wayne Newton. Quote Gold. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex1fly Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 Dean Heil would like a word about the NCAA changing rules to punish specific styles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PencilNeck Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 On 12/3/2023 at 6:58 AM, randyfoxwell said: Don't think it's meaningless. Noone wants to watch 2 defensive wrestlers go against each other. If you aren't creating offense you are stalling, which is what this post was about. related: I love when refs hit both athletes for stalling at the same time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 23 minutes ago, PencilNeck said: related: I love when refs hit both athletes for stalling at the same time! I'll occasionally do it i neutral, but not on the mat (Which Askren wants to see!!!) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 You can be a counter wrestler while always looking to score. See: Lewis, Randy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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