Programs that need a Coaching change

[Bulldog]

18 hours ago, Gantry said:

Escobedo has been there 5.5 years now, I'm seeing zero AAs and one round of 12 guy in that time.   He's pure class and I like him personally, but the results haven't been there.  Far as I know there aren't any major recruits ready to step in, or are there?   Rooks is in his 6th year and Washington his 5th...  

Not saying he should be gone, but I think he's been there long enough to question if there's been enough of an improvement.

Washington has done well at Indiana.  He went from a zero-time state champ to being a very solid D1/B1G wrestler.  He could absolutely be a r12 guy this year and maybe even find a way on the podium.  I wish this would help some recruits see some light at Indiana and Coach Escobedo could finally land the next generation of Hoosiers that will open more doors for him. 

That being said, as painful as the end of the Goldman era was, he still put his guys on the podium and even sent a few to the national finals...three times they won.  Like everyone else, I think Escobedo is the sort of man I would want my own kid to wrestle for, but sadly am starting to lose hope again

Edited November 26, 2023 by Bulldog

[MadMardigain]

1 hour ago, Bulldog said:

he still put his guys on the podium and even sent a few to the national finals...three times they won.  

Maybe emphasize Mike Mena more and I think you have something there. 

[Gantry]

1 hour ago, Bulldog said:

Washington has done well at Indiana.  He went from a zero-time state champ to being a very solid D1/B1G wrestler.  He could absolutely be a r12 guy this year and maybe even find a way on the podium.  I wish this would help some recruits see some light at Indiana and Coach Escobedo could finally land the next generation of Hoosiers that will open more doors for him. 

That being said, as painful as the end of the Goldman era was, he still put his guys on the podium and even sent a few to the national finals...three times they won.  Like everyone else, I think Escobedo is the sort of man I would want my own kid to wrestle for, but sadly am starting to lose hope again

Agree all around here, and I should clarify that Escobedo has done well with Rooks and Washington.  I put their years in more to highlight that their best guys are leaving soon and I don't know who they coming in to replace them or improve on what they've done.

[wrestle87]

Part of this conversation might potentially benefit from discussing which schools do and don’t care about their wrestling programs.

Hate to say it, but it often feels like if wrestling programs aren’t actively adding to the reputation of their respective schools they start running the risk of being shut down.

Doesn’t help that wrestlers tend to be a rowdy bunch who don’t always pay the most attention to their schoolwork.

[Phantom]

On 11/23/2023 at 12:34 PM, Corby said:

Buffalo has a  67-101 D1  dual record in the last 10 years including this season (11)  and zero AA's ( 1 blood round) since he left Bloomsburg. 

I think this shows me Buffalo is not capable of being on the scene like Bloomsburg has done before.

[Antitroll2828]

21 hours ago, wrestle87 said:

Part of this conversation might potentially benefit from discussing which schools do and don’t care about their wrestling programs.

Hate to say it, but it often feels like if wrestling programs aren’t actively adding to the reputation of their respective schools they start running the risk of being shut down.

Doesn’t help that wrestlers tend to be a rowdy bunch who don’t always pay the most attention to their schoolwork.

I’d argue the opposite, when is the last time you heard of a big name wrestler or even an AA level guy fail out of school or be held out of matches for grades ? Happens every year in football, basketball , baseball and I can’t think of one example really, maybe Teasedale when he was at PSU but I don’t think he was even in school for a full year and he was redshirting , guaranteed the wrestling team has a higher GPA than most sports at most schools 

[TNwrestling]

On 11/24/2023 at 3:12 PM, MidwestWrest said:

They should have done whatever they had to do to keep Heath Eslinger. He did a phenomenal job there. He was able to identify, and get great results from, under the radar talent from kids from the south.

I wholeheartedly disagree

 

Coach Eslinger is the single winningest wrestler in program history. Yet he never all american'd. And that was his legacy as coach there too. Ran the SoCon, yet never produced any all americans. Coach Eslinger embodied mediocrity and as long as he was coach there thats all Chatt ever was, mediocre. 

[wrestle87]

34 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

I’d argue the opposite, when is the last time you heard of a big name wrestler or even an AA level guy fail out of school or be held out of matches for grades ? Happens every year in football, basketball , baseball and I can’t think of one example really, maybe Teasedale when he was at PSU but I don’t think he was even in school for a full year and he was redshirting , guaranteed the wrestling team has a higher GPA than most sports at most schools 

You can argue that, and I respect that approach and hope it is a massive wave of change that is underway, but if you've spent 13 years wrestling and around wrestlers at all levels from peewee through 4 years of college, I would be surprised if you would continue to make this argument.

There are absolutely pockets and teams that do not tolerate this behavior, but we are talking about the average school with the average college wrestlers.  

1) No college sport gets in the way of studying and being a good student more than wrestling.  Trying to study for a test while cutting 10+ pounds at the same time has diminishing returns.  It can be done, but by definition you are not getting the most out of yourself in one when you have to focus on the other.  

2) Few college sports are as physically and mentally extreme as wrestling.  When that is your standard for normal, it leads to some rowdy behavior outside the season, both bc it doesn't seem normal, and bc wrestlers have so much pent up after the season, a lot of it has to come out, and it does in ridiculous ways.

There is nothing wrong with either of these in a vacuum.  The problem comes in when comparing a wrestlers reality to the expectations universities lay over their low-income programs.  If wrestling landed each school fat TV contracts and netted millions per year, this would magically cease to be a concern.  But for the average program, aka the fringe, might be here in 10 years might get ODU'd program, it is a reality and a real concern.

[Antitroll2828]

17 minutes ago, wrestle87 said:

You can argue that, and I respect that approach and hope it is a massive wave of change that is underway, but if you've spent 13 years wrestling and around wrestlers at all levels from peewee through 4 years of college, I would be surprised if you would continue to make this argument.

There are absolutely pockets and teams that do not tolerate this behavior, but we are talking about the average school with the average college wrestlers.  

1) No college sport gets in the way of studying and being a good student more than wrestling.  Trying to study for a test while cutting 10+ pounds at the same time has diminishing returns.  It can be done, but by definition you are not getting the most out of yourself in one when you have to focus on the other.  

2) Few college sports are as physically and mentally extreme as wrestling.  When that is your standard for normal, it leads to some rowdy behavior outside the season, both bc it doesn't seem normal, and bc wrestlers have so much pent up after the season, a lot of it has to come out, and it does in ridiculous ways.

There is nothing wrong with either of these in a vacuum.  The problem comes in when comparing a wrestlers reality to the expectations universities lay over their low-income programs.  If wrestling landed each school fat TV contracts and netted millions per year, this would magically cease to be a concern.  But for the average program, aka the fringe, might be here in 10 years might get ODU'd program, it is a reality and a real concern.

Well I agree with your take on the pee wee through high school , every high school team in the country has a batch of the rowdy kids , heck coaches look for those sorts of guys but at the D1 level I don’t think kids failing out past freshman year is as big of a concern as it is for coaches of other sports . Idk much about D2 and D3 nowadays so you could be right about that but strictly from a D1 standpoint I think the years and level of dedication to reach that level makes those guys mature enough to handle the school side of things when they get to college. I also think the big time wrestler culture has been shifting to a cleaner lifestyle for years , the days of national champs getting DUIs at Taco Bell and Iowa wrestlers drunk shooting teammates seem more of the exception than the rule in 2023 , for every Ferrari you have 3 Pat glorys who spend 10 hrs minimum a week studying and putting in the school work while also weight cutting and practicing 

 

I get your point about the small school stuff , if an edinboro or Bloomsburg suddenly had half the team failing those programs are most likely getting the axe , or a Fresno state situation where they were looking for a reason to shut the program down and they found one but I just don’t see any head coach letting that happen right now 

 

maybe @Jason Bryant has some gpa or academic info on wrestling that can shine some light on this topic 

[nhs67]

Has anyone in here said Iowa State yet?

Tom and Terry ran circles around Dresser yesterday.

[Le duke]

On 11/26/2023 at 6:06 AM, Bulldog said:

Washington has done well at Indiana.  He went from a zero-time state champ to being a very solid D1/B1G wrestler.  He could absolutely be a r12 guy this year and maybe even find a way on the podium.  I wish this would help some recruits see some light at Indiana and Coach Escobedo could finally land the next generation of Hoosiers that will open more doors for him. 

That being said, as painful as the end of the Goldman era was, he still put his guys on the podium and even sent a few to the national finals...three times they won.  Like everyone else, I think Escobedo is the sort of man I would want my own kid to wrestle for, but sadly am starting to lose hope again

 

So, this is OT but I haven't seen the name brought up on this board before:

What is Duane Goldman's reputation? He opened up a wrestling club here in town (Colorado Springs) and seems to be one of the few clubs around. My son is only 3 and I don't plan on letting him start for a couple years. But, still want to do my due diligence.

[JVStateChamp]

Many of the programs mentioned, such as Bloomsburg, Sacred Heart, and UTC, will face challenges in finding a sought-after replacement. As the wrestling market has grown, albeit not significantly, there will be a lack of qualified candidates. In the past, the best wrestlers in the USA were drawn to coaching due to limited financial opportunities. However, now wrestlers are experiencing career longevity and earning comparable salaries for focusing solely on training. Additionally, a high-profile assistant coach in the ACC or B1G may earn more than a head coach at a SoCon or EIWA program. While these programs have undoubtedly fallen short of their past achievements or potential, attracting coaches who can bring about change and remain committed for an extended period is proving to be a significant hurdle.

[Winners Circle]

1 hour ago, TNwrestling said:

I wholeheartedly disagree

 

Coach Eslinger is the single winningest wrestler in program history. Yet he never all american'd. And that was his legacy as coach there too. Ran the SoCon, yet never produced any all americans. Coach Eslinger embodied mediocrity and as long as he was coach there thats all Chatt ever was, mediocre. 

Who would you have preferred replace Eslinger? Not saying he was coach of the year. But he was one of the best options there. 

[JVStateChamp]

1 hour ago, TNwrestling said:

I wholeheartedly disagree

 

Coach Eslinger is the single winningest wrestler in program history. Yet he never all american'd. And that was his legacy as coach there too. Ran the SoCon, yet never produced any all americans. Coach Eslinger embodied mediocrity and as long as he was coach there thats all Chatt ever was, mediocre. 

While I do not think that Coach Eslinger was the best coach, I think that there needs to be something said about where the program was and where it is now. Eslinger did a much better job of recruiting. Chattanooga should be a top program in the SoCon but falls short every year. Looking back vision is always 20/20 but to say letting Coach Sioredas go could've been one of the biggest mistakes the program made. 

[TNwrestling]

2 minutes ago, JVStateChamp said:

Many of the programs mentioned, such as Bloomsburg, Sacred Heart, and UTC, will face challenges in finding a sought-after replacement. As the wrestling market has grown, albeit not significantly, there will be a lack of qualified candidates. In the past, the best wrestlers in the USA were drawn to coaching due to limited financial opportunities. However, now wrestlers are experiencing career longevity and earning comparable salaries for focusing solely on training. Additionally, a high-profile assistant coach in the ACC or B1G may earn more than a head coach at a SoCon or EIWA program. While these programs have undoubtedly fallen short of their past achievements or potential, attracting coaches who can bring about change and remain committed for an extended period is proving to be a significant hurdle.

I can tell you straight forward now that UTC is not on the market for a new coach. The school and alumni are happy with whatever direction they're not heading in right now. They're not going to cut ties with Ruschell and they're not in any danger of cutting the program. 

 

[JVStateChamp]

8 minutes ago, TNwrestling said:

I can tell you straight forward now that UTC is not on the market for a new coach. The school and alumni are happy with whatever direction they're not heading in right now. They're not going to cut ties with Ruschell and they're not in any danger of cutting the program. 

 

I do not disagree with that. I do believe that UTC is fully committed to Ruschell and the wrestling program. I would like to know what other candidates would have been a better hire, obviously, I don't have this knowledge but I am curious about who else had put in for the position once Eslinger left that may have had different results. 

Edited November 27, 2023 by JVStateChamp

[TNwrestling]

18 minutes ago, JVStateChamp said:

While I do not think that Coach Eslinger was the best coach, I think that there needs to be something said about where the program was and where it is now. Eslinger did a much better job of recruiting. Chattanooga should be a top program in the SoCon but falls short every year. Looking back vision is always 20/20 but to say letting Coach Sioredas go could've been one of the biggest mistakes the program made. 

Eslinger was a great coach. Don't get me wrong. Chatt has a hard time recruitng worth while kids. Even their best wrestler right now, Palmer, went to Clarion for a year then transfered in. And he's from TN. I know they went hard after 4 TN kids this year, even offering one of them 5 years, and they landed none of them. The team doens't have the mentality of a winning program. The kids party and don't take it as serious as other programs (this isnt my opinion, its the product of conversations ive had with alum as well as multiple kids who went there and left and as kids on recruiting trips there)

 

19 minutes ago, MidwestWrest said:

Who would you have preferred replace Eslinger? Not saying he was coach of the year. But he was one of the best options there. 

Personally, I think we need a bigger name within the wrestling community to take the reigns. Nashon Garrett lives in the state and would bring a sense of notoriety with him. I'd love to have Terry back, of course. There's also a slew of assistant hc's and associate hc's that would be great. Ramos, Maple, Steiber, Jaggers, Gwiz, Brewer, Freyer, Dlagnev, Green, Scott, Perry, Caldwell etc etc etc etc that list goes on. 

 

I think, if they truly want to turn the program around, truly, they're gonig to have to fork over some cash and go after a huge name. Change the entire philosphy of the program. Go after a Burroughs when he retires or bring in the Askren brothers. 

Edited November 27, 2023 by TNwrestling

[Winners Circle]

1 minute ago, TNwrestling said:

Personally, I think we need a bigger name within the wrestling community to take the reigns. Nashon Garrett lives in the state and would bring a sense of notoriety with him. I'd love to have Terry back, of course. There's also a slew of assistant hc's and associate hc's that would be great. Ramos, Maple, Steiber, Jaggers, Gwiz etc etc etc etc that list goes on. 

 

I think, if they truly want to turn the program around, truly, they're gonig to have to fork over some cash and go after a huge name. Change the entire philosphy of the program. Go after a Burroughs when he retires or bring in the Askren brothers. 

Besides possibly Nahshon, I don't see any of the guys you named taking that job.

[TNwrestling]

Just now, MidwestWrest said:

Besides possibly Nahshon, I don't see any of the guys you named taking that job.

All due respect, you didnt ask who i thought WOULD take the job. You asked who I'd prefer to take it. 

[gimpeltf]

40 minutes ago, MidwestWrest said:

Besides possibly Nahshon, I don't see any of the guys you named taking that job.

Maybe @TNwrestling edited his post but Nahshon lives in Pa (training at Lehigh RTC)

[TNwrestling]

19 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

Maybe @TNwrestling edited his post but Nahshon lives in Pa (training at Lehigh RTC)

Then that is news to me. He's been living in Kingsport, TN for a few years now. 

[gimpeltf]

13 minutes ago, TNwrestling said:

Then that is news to me. He's been living in Kingsport, TN for a few years now. 

Unless he's commuting

 

 

 

LVWC Wrestling

 

@LVACW

·

Aug 27, 2022

 

Please join us in welcoming NCAA champion, 4x All American, and Final X champion, Nahshon Garrett to the LVWC family.

 

[TNwrestling]

4 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

Unless he's commuting

 

 

 

LVWC Wrestling

 

@LVACW

·

Aug 27, 2022

 

Please join us in welcoming NCAA champion, 4x All American, and Final X champion, Nahshon Garrett to the LVWC family.

 

I was never doubting you, just said it was news to me. 

 

Per his socials it looks like he moved mid Aug of '22 out of TN. 

Edited November 27, 2023 by TNwrestling

[gimpeltf]

2 minutes ago, TNwrestling said:

I was never doubting you, just said it was news to me. 

 

Per his socials it looks like he moved mid Aug of '22 out of TN. 

And I wasn't trying to be overly facetious. He's not there every day so maybe he goes back and forth some.

He still lists TN in his X bio

Edited November 27, 2023 by gimpeltf

[Lunaticfringe]

On 11/26/2023 at 8:41 AM, MadMardigain said:

Maybe emphasize Mike Mena more and I think you have something there. 

Ricardo Alcala, Matt Powless, Adam Chalfant, Taylor Walsh were all bigger guys who AA’d late in the Goldman era. They always had good 197-285 guys. The problem Indiana has always sucked for the most part in the 141-184 range.