jchapman Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said: Terrible stuff, but I was just told "false equivalency" so a moot point. An AK 47? Are you sure? Really? Were there charges filed regarding the drive by? I am far from a fan of the older Ferrari boys. So you are coming out as pro- DUI? The point was : Cael's guys screw up too, even though they've been told not to. Are you sure they were told specifically not to commit sexual assault? Edited November 16, 2023 by jchapman Craig Henning got screwed in the 2007 NCAA Finals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idaho Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 3 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said: https://www.statecollege.com/articles/local-news/penn-state-wrestler-long-charged-with-attempted-rape-indecent-assault/ https://www.centredaily.com/news/local/crime/article42835923.html Always following the letter of the law! 12 years ago - probably time to give that one up. If it happens this season, then revisit. Being drilled into the program does not mean each wrestler will follow it - it means the program did their due diligence. Did Iowa drill it into their program to follow the laws/rules/guidelines of betting? If you are allowed to skip the meeting and sign off on it, I think that's a good indication. 1 Sponsored by INTERMAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 19 minutes ago, TNwrestling said: I don't remember Cael ever complaining about the Justice Dept after Ed or Andrew got in trouble though. Thats the issue. Tom isnt accepting responsibility for his athletes, hes pushing blame elsewhere. maybe im wrong, but i dont think i am I think you're mostly right. My initial post was a response to someone posting about Messenbrink talking about how PSU wrestlers are taught to follow all rules to the letter of the law.... and they all do. I was merely responding to the absurdity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interviewed_at_Weehawken Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 12 minutes ago, Idaho said: 12 years ago - probably time to give that one up. If it happens this season, then revisit. Being drilled into the program does not mean each wrestler will follow it - it means the program did their due diligence. Did Iowa drill it into their program to follow the laws/rules/guidelines of betting? If you are allowed to skip the meeting and sign off on it, I think that's a good indication. The implication was that Cael's boys follow all the rules. Knowing the rules doesn't mean you follow them all, agreed. I have no real problem with the suspensions or punishments. I have said so from the beginning. I just despise the "holier than thou" attitudes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1032004 Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 1 hour ago, TNwrestling said: Nelson Brands was involved too. His excuse was he missed the meeting where they went over the severity of the punishments if caught I was referring to Iowa State. Paniro was the only name I had heard previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortaJohn Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 6 hours ago, 1032004 said: Was there a link between “the original suspect(s)” at Iowa and Iowa state? Or even “the original suspect(s)” and the other athletes at the same school on different teams? Who even was the “original suspect(s)”? I don’t really know the specifics of what started it, although IIRC there was something about someone using a family member’s account (don’t think it was originally Paniro, but not sure). If the Iowa wrestlers for example all had their own accounts on the betting site(s), I’d presume all the investigators had to do was look through the site records for athletes’ names. I guess we don’t know for sure if they did that for UNI or not, but it seems not. Just hypothesizing. My guess is as good as anyones at this point. I Don't Agree With What I Posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortaJohn Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 (edited) 11 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said: Sheriff Farley did... My hunch is the investigation started do to the negligence of two yutes Edited November 16, 2023 by PortaJohn 1 1 I Don't Agree With What I Posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 1 hour ago, TNwrestling said: I don't remember Cael ever complaining about the Justice Dept after Ed or Andrew got in trouble though. Thats the issue. Tom isnt accepting responsibility for his athletes, hes pushing blame elsewhere. maybe im wrong, but i dont think i am There is a big difference between committing an ncaa violation (that is legal) and raping a woman or crashing a vehicle while driving under the influence. If you can't see that, I can't help you. The situations are not the same at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 2 hours ago, Antitroll2828 said: 10 and 12 years ago, meanwhile Iowa wrestling literally had one of there wrestlers SHOOT a returning AA since then and are letting the Ferraris in , the elder 2 took an Ak -47 and did a drive by on another teammates house and let’s not forget AJ drunk waving around a gun making an instagram video in which he threatens to kill John smith but yea Ed Ruth being drunk and wanting Tacos definitely made your point Half of the stuff you stated here is either patently false or speculation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHROMEBIRD Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 Brands is an intense dude. Ask him what he thinks about the McRib returning only to participating locations and he'll get fired up. He's just built like that. Seriously though, he has to double down and push back on the decision because it's his fault that several wrestlers were out of compliance. The buck stops with him and I'm sure he and Ferentz have caught heat from the AD and administration. They're trying to preserve their jobs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southend Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 The buck stops with all heads. Preserve their jobs-is a maybe ,for these two coaches. both head’s would get another top job at several universities in a heartbeat. More like, from the AD,” keep the chicks in the hen house” get a few more babysitters for these 22 year old teenagers. Maturity is a premium asset for all university teams. Head coaching is a misnomer in these times. Coaching gets put way down on the list of things they have time to do and get to do. Not just for wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1032004 Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 3 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said: He is definitely saying that. But that doesn't mean the reporters did not ask him a pertinent and appropriate question. Yeah that maybe bugged me the most, that this rant was in response to the reporter literally just asking him what his thoughts were about the ruling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNwrestling Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 49 minutes ago, Gus said: There is a big difference between committing an ncaa violation (that is legal) and raping a woman or crashing a vehicle while driving under the influence. If you can't see that, I can't help you. The situations are not the same at all. I wasn't comparing the two. I was replying to someone who brought up Andrew Long and that Cael's kids aren't perfect either. They drew those two situations together. I just said Cael never went off blaming the Justice Dept for the kids getting in trouble. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrestlingshoe Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 Iowa Wrestling/Brands probably feel like they ARE wrestling in America and for a while maybe even the world when they had multiple world/Olympic medallists. They have not gotten used to the fact or maybe don't realize there is another team that is better at the national and international level. They used to get away with not only wrestling Iowa Style, but bulldozing their way through media and other situations like they wrestled. Both their wrestling style and how they handle the public needs to change if they want to be relevant again and if they don't want to look like uncivilized morons. If Tom had simply started off by taking responsibility for what his wrestlers did, he may not have garnered so much pushback. But again, his head pressure and continual forward push is so ingrained he may not know how to change course. Feels like he was trying to headsnap the reporters into submission. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antitroll2828 Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Gus said: Half of the stuff you stated here is either patently false or speculation. Vince Turk shot Sam Stoll , that’s as confirmed as it can get Mastrogovianni has openly talked about them shooting up his car and house because of something involving his relationship with the Ferrari sister the Aj video in question was up for a full day before It was deleted ,I watched it multiple times , hes also intoxicated waving around a gun shirtless in a room full of college kids Edited November 16, 2023 by Antitroll2828 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1032004 Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 4 hours ago, JVStateChamp said: This argument appears to be somewhat hypocritical. While some individuals, including Brands, may disagree with the ruling on the gambling investigations, it is unfair and unjust to speculate about the actions of other teams or programs without any evidence. As a leader, Brands should focus on guiding his own team in the right direction rather than worrying about others. Agree, but technically I believe Brands was basing his speculation on his quote that apparently the NCAA has found that 56% of athletes gamble or something like that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antitroll2828 Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 52 minutes ago, Gus said: Half of the stuff you stated here is either patently false or speculation. Hell you can search around the Oklahoma state wrestling board and find them discussing this stuff around the time it was happening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNwrestling Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 1 minute ago, 1032004 said: Agree, but technically I believe Brands was basing his speculation on his quote that apparently the NCAA has found that 56% of athletes gamble or something like that. That's where his argument fell flat for me. Just becuase the NCAA found that 56% of athletes gamble doesn't absolve Iowa of their violations. It means they need to crack down on the rest, but Iowa should still be punished. He doesn't think they should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1032004 Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 Just now, TNwrestling said: That's where his argument fell flat for me. Just becuase the NCAA found that 56% of athletes gamble doesn't absolve Iowa of their violations. It means they need to crack down on the rest, but Iowa should still be punished. He doesn't think they should. I agree. Although it's not totally clear to me what Brands opinion on that is. Him continually saying why was it just Iowa and Iowa State seems to imply he does think other teams should be punished too. But then him pulling the "they didn't break any laws" line implies maybe he doesn't think anyone should have been punished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1032004 Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 2 hours ago, jchapman said: Are you sure they were told specifically not to commit sexual assault? I haven't been in college for awhile but honestly I do specifically remember a meeting in the beginning of the year saying that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 12 minutes ago, TNwrestling said: I wasn't comparing the two. I was replying to someone who brought up Andrew Long and that Cael's kids aren't perfect either. They drew those two situations together. I just said Cael never went off blaming the Justice Dept for the kids getting in trouble. My point being why would Cael blame the Justice Dept for a criminal offense. Did Tom Brands blame the justice department when Seth Gross broke the law? No. These are totally different situations and should be treated as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 13 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said: Vince Turk shot Sam Stoll , that’s as confirmed as it can get Mastrogovianni has openly talked about them shooting up his car and house because of something involving his relationship with the Ferrari sister the Aj video in question was up for a full day before It was deleted ,I watched it multiple times , hes also intoxicated waving around a gun shirtless in a room full of college kids I agree that Turk shot Stoll. The rest of the points you made are at best hearsay. Show the proof. If the oldest two Ferrari brothers did a drive by shooting then why were they not thrown in prison? None of it adds up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 I was wondering about that 56% figure he quoted. It felt a little BS-y to me. The only thing I could find is this: https://www.ncaa.org/news/2023/5/24/media-center-ncaa-releases-sports-wagering-survey-data.aspx It feels like what he was talking about, even if 56% is nowhere to be found. 58 is the percent of 18-22 year olds who say they gamble. But that isn't even right as it includes non-college students. Among college students the number is even higher. But lest you be tempted to extrapolate that to student-athletes they point out that "Current or former NCAA athletes may have been in the pool of respondents but not in sufficient numbers to examine their data separately." The point is not to take the rants of a coach facing sanctions at face value. Especially when they are quoting statistics. As in lies, damn lies, and statistics. 1 Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 Oh, and another thing. The number of Iowa athletes affected was originally reported as 26. Googling the total number of student-athletes at University of Iowa yields "over 650", which I read to be in the 651 to 659 range. But assuming only 650, that is 4% of student-athletes who were swept up in this probe that seems, from the outside looking in, to have been rather exhaustive. At Iowa State it was 15 athletes. Iowa State lists 556 total student-athletes. That comes to 2.7%. Yeah, Tom, I am going to have to call BS on your 56% claim. 1 Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threadkilla Posted November 16, 2023 Author Share Posted November 16, 2023 8 hours ago, B.Miller said: Dresser also discussed the gambling investigation during his media day. https://cyclones.com/watch/?Archive=20106&type=Archive This interview was like comparing apples to oranges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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