PSU 125

[Plasmodium]

5 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

"at this point."

Or that point.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 hour ago, Gus said:

Dude, Suriano was a NQ @ 125 (MFF due to injuries), 2nd @ 125, 1st @ 133, 1st @ 125.. He was a stud. Career record of 86-7 and the "worst" loss of his career was to DeSanto. 

Bro! The point was that he had trouble staying healthy and at 125 for 5 years.  Significant illness and injury kept him out of one tournament and almost another.  He then went 133 where he won, wrestled a full season etc.

I never said he wasn't great.  125 for 4-5 years at PSU wasn't going to happen... and didn't.  The whole post was about recruiting 125s who can stay at 125 and be effective theuir entire career.  Poster said "Suriano was that guy" Except he wasn't! literally had significant health problems at 125 and had his best season at 133.

He was able to wrestle an abbreviated season at 125 and win again.

Despite being "the best threat to take out Gilman" has never made WTT finals.  Sick, and then upset by Richards.

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

14 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

I think 2023 WTT Gilman destroys the HWC one as well.

He isn't regressing.  He was gameplanned for.

Richards must've had a lot of gameplans!

[nhs67]

Just now, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Richards must've had a lot of gameplans!

Richards made a leap this last year and it wasn't a physical one, necessarily.  He has put a lot of time in to allowing himself to be coached and implementing the perfect gameplans while also sticking to fundamentally sound roots.

As an American I am proud to see how much he has improved.

Now everyone at 57 KG has to go through the challenge tourney.  It's going to be insane.

[Gus]

13 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Bro! The point was that he had trouble staying healthy and at 125 for 5 years.  Significant illness and injury kept him out of one tournament and almost another.  He then went 133 where he won, wrestled a full season etc.

I never said he wasn't great.  125 for 4-5 years at PSU wasn't going to happen... and didn't.  The whole post was about recruiting 125s who can stay at 125 and be effective theuir entire career.  Poster said "Suriano was that guy" Except he wasn't! literally had significant health problems at 125 and had his best season at 133.

He was able to wrestle an abbreviated season at 125 and win again.

Despite being "the best threat to take out Gilman" has never made WTT finals.  Sick, and then upset by Richards.

 

 

 

Do you think Suriano wrestled at 133 because the cut to 125 was too hard or because the cut to 125 was difficult AND he did not want to deal with Spencer? I believe it had to do with Spencer as well as the cut. I think you are picking nits to not say that Suriano (who placed 2,1 as a 125 lber) fits in to the criteria of an effective 125 lber.

[MPhillips]

5 hours ago, ionel said:

Please help me MP!  

I'm so sorry.  If he also has a receding hairline I will look into the upcoming eclipse you mentioned...

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

38 minutes ago, Gus said:

Do you think Suriano wrestled at 133 because the cut to 125 was too hard or because the cut to 125 was difficult AND he did not want to deal with Spencer? I believe it had to do with Spencer as well as the cut. I think you are picking nits to not say that Suriano (who placed 2,1 as a 125 lber) fits in to the criteria of an effective 125 lber.

DNP, 2, (133), 1 (shortened season)

Gus, I like you.  You are continuing to lose track of the argument.  I think Suriano is a great one.  Very odd duck, but great. 

1.  Spencer went to Iowa, partially because he considered it a better training situation for him as a 125

2.  A claim was made that PSU didn't recruit Spencer bc they had Suriano

3.  This claim was disproven

4.  I stated that part of the PSU 125 problem was that it is hard to recruit four year 125s, who can keep the weight, stay healthy be effective etc.

5.  Another poster claimed that they had that guy in Suriano.  

6.  I disagreed by saying that Suriano couldn't stay healthy at 125, then went up to 133, then went back to 125 because he could wrestled a shortened season without Spencer.  Never said he wasn't a stud.  

7. I think that you and I mostly agree.  I mean the stats prove that he was unable to stay at 125 and wrestle full seasons healthily for 4 years!

[Perry]

The curse of suriano continues

[Antitroll2828]

3 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

DNP, 2, (133), 1 (shortened season)

Gus, I like you.  You are continuing to lose track of the argument.  I think Suriano is a great one.  Very odd duck, but great. 

1.  Spencer went to Iowa, partially because he considered it a better training situation for him as a 125

2.  A claim was made that PSU didn't recruit Spencer bc they had Suriano

3.  This claim was disproven

4.  I stated that part of the PSU 125 problem was that it is hard to recruit four year 125s, who can keep the weight, stay healthy be effective etc.

5.  Another poster claimed that they had that guy in Suriano.  

6.  I disagreed by saying that Suriano couldn't stay healthy at 125, then went up to 133, then went back to 125 because he could wrestled a shortened season without Spencer.  Never said he wasn't a stud.  

7. I think that you and I mostly agree.  I mean the stats prove that he was unable to stay at 125 and wrestle full seasons healthily for 4 years!

You didn’t actually disprove the claim you just quoted Larry Lee, a man whose taken subtle shots a Penn State and was wrapped up in trying to recruit transfers to Iowa lol who you going to quote next Gabe Arnold’s dad ? 
 

while spencer might have thought Iowa was better training spot, penn state had the national champ at 125 and 3x finalist while recruiting him

Highly doubt Suriano ducked anyone in his entire life , looking at Rutgers roster Suriano was the only real D1 level wrestler at the weight , he lost to Spencer 5-1 2 weeks outta the hospital with staph in his knee I doubt he was afraid to wrestle him healthy 

Suriano had no idea spencer wouldn’t be at 125 his last year because Spencer started that season and wrestled in 3 duals , then waited a bit before announcing he was going for a medical redshirt , you think Suriano was just sitting around saw on flo that spencer is done then hit the sauna and called up Michigan? 
 

also u seem to be knocking Suriano going up to 133 and winning ncaas , he won one of the toughest brackets ever , he beat a world champ (Micic) , world runner up (fix), Desanto , Lizak an ncaa finalist , Pletcher (would’ve been a finalist in 2020) , Erneste, Phillipi , 2x AA Korbin Myers and won a bracket where 2x Ncaa champ RBY took 8th and Austin Gomez AA, Tariq Wilson 2xAA , Dylan Duncan AA ,Devan Turner AA, Chaz Tucker and Brandon Paetzall both AAs the no tourney year all didnt place 

his path to a title at 133 was Duncan AA, Myers 2x AA ,Lizak 3x AA finalist, Micic 3x AA , finalist, world champ, and then fix 3x finalist world finalist , this weight is tougher then any bracket Lee ever won and Suriano is a weird guy to nitpick about because his hit list in unmatched in recent memory he beat 2 ncaa champs and 5 or 6 ncaa finalists 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

51 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

You didn’t actually disprove the claim you just quoted Larry Lee, a man whose taken subtle shots a Penn State and was wrapped up in trying to recruit transfers to Iowa lol who you going to quote next Gabe Arnold’s dad ? 
 

while spencer might have thought Iowa was better training spot, penn state had the national champ at 125 and 3x finalist while recruiting him

Highly doubt Suriano ducked anyone in his entire life , looking at Rutgers roster Suriano was the only real D1 level wrestler at the weight , he lost to Spencer 5-1 2 weeks outta the hospital with staph in his knee I doubt he was afraid to wrestle him healthy 

Suriano had no idea spencer wouldn’t be at 125 his last year because Spencer started that season and wrestled in 3 duals , then waited a bit before announcing he was going for a medical redshirt , you think Suriano was just sitting around saw on flo that spencer is done then hit the sauna and called up Michigan? 
 

also u seem to be knocking Suriano going up to 133 and winning ncaas , he won one of the toughest brackets ever , he beat a world champ (Micic) , world runner up (fix), Desanto , Lizak an ncaa finalist , Pletcher (would’ve been a finalist in 2020) , Erneste, Phillipi , 2x AA Korbin Myers and won a bracket where 2x Ncaa champ RBY took 8th and Austin Gomez AA, Tariq Wilson 2xAA , Dylan Duncan AA ,Devan Turner AA, Chaz Tucker and Brandon Paetzall both AAs the no tourney year all didnt place 

his path to a title at 133 was Duncan AA, Myers 2x AA ,Lizak 3x AA finalist, Micic 3x AA , finalist, world champ, and then fix 3x finalist world finalist , this weight is tougher then any bracket Lee ever won and Suriano is a weird guy to nitpick about because his hit list in unmatched in recent memory he beat 2 ncaa champs and 5 or 6 ncaa finalists 

I might consider reading this in it's entirety if you used some modicum of English writing conventions.

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[nhs67]

19 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I might consider reading this in it's entirety if you used some modicum of English writing conventions.

 

He did capitalize the names.

[wrestlingest2010]

I would be floored if Braeden Davis doesn't get the start this year. He's clearly a level above Steen (who actually looked solid, granted he didn't wrestle anyone good) He majored him and pinned him in the wrestleoff. With Lilledahl coming and looking like a reliable 4 year starter with no redshirt, might as well shirt Davis then get him ready to go 133 after Nagao vacates. 

I feel bad but I don't think Howard can ever make it all the way back, especially since shoulders are some of the most recurring injuries out there. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think you can count on him doing anything going forward. Not remotely shocked at these results, when he wrestled freestyle (his superior style) in 2022, he looked way out of it before getting hurt again and his layoff clearly shows. 

Edited November 15, 2023 by wrestlingest2010

[bnwtwg]

13 hours ago, Antitroll2828 said:

You didn’t actually disprove the claim you just quoted Larry Lee, a man whose taken subtle shots a Penn State and was wrapped up in trying to recruit transfers to Iowa lol who you going to quote next Gabe Arnold’s dad ? 
 

while spencer might have thought Iowa was better training spot, penn state had the national champ at 125 and 3x finalist while recruiting him

Highly doubt Suriano ducked anyone in his entire life , looking at Rutgers roster Suriano was the only real D1 level wrestler at the weight , he lost to Spencer 5-1 2 weeks outta the hospital with staph in his knee I doubt he was afraid to wrestle him healthy 

Suriano had no idea spencer wouldn’t be at 125 his last year because Spencer started that season and wrestled in 3 duals , then waited a bit before announcing he was going for a medical redshirt , you think Suriano was just sitting around saw on flo that spencer is done then hit the sauna and called up Michigan? 
 

also u seem to be knocking Suriano going up to 133 and winning ncaas , he won one of the toughest brackets ever , he beat a world champ (Micic) , world runner up (fix), Desanto , Lizak an ncaa finalist , Pletcher (would’ve been a finalist in 2020) , Erneste, Phillipi , 2x AA Korbin Myers and won a bracket where 2x Ncaa champ RBY took 8th and Austin Gomez AA, Tariq Wilson 2xAA , Dylan Duncan AA ,Devan Turner AA, Chaz Tucker and Brandon Paetzall both AAs the no tourney year all didnt place 

his path to a title at 133 was Duncan AA, Myers 2x AA ,Lizak 3x AA finalist, Micic 3x AA , finalist, world champ, and then fix 3x finalist world finalist , this weight is tougher then any bracket Lee ever won and Suriano is a weird guy to nitpick about because his hit list in unmatched in recent memory he beat 2 ncaa champs and 5 or 6 ncaa finalists 

Like the saying goes, even a broken troll is right twice a day

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

18 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

Or that point.

Because Cael is such a nice ethical guy?  He wouldn't ever use negative recruiting if he thought it was needed, and definitely wouldn't ever think about pushing his mentor out at Iowa State!

[nhs67]

27 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Like the saying goes, even a broken troll is right twice a day

I'd take those odds every day.

Twice on Tuesdays.

[Antitroll2828]

12 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I might consider reading this in it's entirety if you used some modicum of English writing conventions.

 

Pretty standard response from you 

[Gus]

17 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

DNP, 2, (133), 1 (shortened season)

Gus, I like you.  You are continuing to lose track of the argument.  I think Suriano is a great one.  Very odd duck, but great. 

1.  Spencer went to Iowa, partially because he considered it a better training situation for him as a 125

2.  A claim was made that PSU didn't recruit Spencer bc they had Suriano

3.  This claim was disproven

4.  I stated that part of the PSU 125 problem was that it is hard to recruit four year 125s, who can keep the weight, stay healthy be effective etc.

5.  Another poster claimed that they had that guy in Suriano.  

6.  I disagreed by saying that Suriano couldn't stay healthy at 125, then went up to 133, then went back to 125 because he could wrestled a shortened season without Spencer.  Never said he wasn't a stud.  

7. I think that you and I mostly agree.  I mean the stats prove that he was unable to stay at 125 and wrestle full seasons healthily for 4 years!

If the requirement is a 4-year starter with no injures at 125 then pretty much no one is going to measure up. Even looking at Iowa - Spencer was a 4x AA, 3x Champ but had a bunch of injuries, Gilman "only" 3x starter, Clark moved up to 133, McDonough had injures, etc. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

16 minutes ago, Gus said:

If the requirement is a 4-year starter with no injures at 125 then pretty much no one is going to measure up. Even looking at Iowa - Spencer was a 4x AA, 3x Champ but had a bunch of injuries, Gilman "only" 3x starter, Clark moved up to 133, McDonough had injures, etc. 

Spencer had well-documented injuries, starting in high school , but none that kept him out of the national tournament or that kept him from placing.  My point was that it is tough to find this type of guy... might be why PSU has struggled with it.  

Seems a better answer than "Cael can't coach 125s"

[bnwtwg]

Who *can* coach this mythical 125? Let's go back twenty years.

Illinois? Nope, Jesse Delgado tore out his shoulder senior year chasing this 3rd natty.

Iowa? Nope, Clark couldn't keep weight, McDonough couldn't stay healthy, Gilman was only good enough for JV, Lee couldn't beat one guy one match at nattys and that is the ultimate indictment of his ability.

PSU? Nope, 2x finalist/1x champ Nico isn't up to snuff. Suriano couldn't stay healthy then he left and only made the finals, had to bump up to win a natty, then dropped back at a third school for his second title.

Indiana? Nope, Dubuque was such a bum that he could only win two titles.

Cornell? Nope, Travis Lee couldn't hold weight and had to bump for his second title. Don't even get me started on Nickerson and his audacity to wrestle through injuries for a lonesome title.

What a bonkers take. 125 is the hardest weight to maintain even 2 years, much less 5 by a wide margin and the wrestling style leans much closer to judo with ridiculous pressure onto the joints that by basic anatomy & physiology is significantly less prevalent at larger weights leading to major injuries at a higher clip. That's what happens when you either don't hit the weight room because you're scared of gaining weight or sucking out to make weight if you decide to add strength.

So here's a random though: Maybe just maybe Cael recruited Lee to take over 125 and let Suriano go his better natural weight of 133 with still 6% body fat. But maybe Suriano's dad did Suriano's dad things and couldn't see the forest for the Lees and messed up the whole damn thing. Idk just making up scenarios in my head.

[Plasmodium]

2 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Because Cael is such a nice ethical guy?  He wouldn't ever use negative recruiting if he thought it was needed, and definitely wouldn't ever think about pushing his mentor out at Iowa State!

Exactly.

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

29 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

couldn't see the forest for the Lees 

Chef's kiss

[TylerDurden]

54 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Who *can* coach this mythical 125? Let's go back twenty years.

Illinois? Nope, Jesse Delgado tore out his shoulder senior year chasing this 3rd natty.

Iowa? Nope, Clark couldn't keep weight, McDonough couldn't stay healthy, Gilman was only good enough for JV, Lee couldn't beat one guy one match at nattys and that is the ultimate indictment of his ability.

PSU? Nope, 2x finalist/1x champ Nico isn't up to snuff. Suriano couldn't stay healthy then he left and only made the finals, had to bump up to win a natty, then dropped back at a third school for his second title.

Indiana? Nope, Dubuque was such a bum that he could only win two titles.

Cornell? Nope, Travis Lee couldn't hold weight and had to bump for his second title. Don't even get me started on Nickerson and his audacity to wrestle through injuries for a lonesome title.

What a bonkers take. 125 is the hardest weight to maintain even 2 years, much less 5 by a wide margin and the wrestling style leans much closer to judo with ridiculous pressure onto the joints that by basic anatomy & physiology is significantly less prevalent at larger weights leading to major injuries at a higher clip. That's what happens when you either don't hit the weight room because you're scared of gaining weight or sucking out to make weight if you decide to add strength.

So here's a random though: Maybe just maybe Cael recruited Lee to take over 125 and let Suriano go his better natural weight of 133 with still 6% body fat. But maybe Suriano's dad did Suriano's dad things and couldn't see the forest for the Lees and messed up the whole damn thing. Idk just making up scenarios in my head.

So Duane Goldman...err Mike Mena is the answer.

Dubuque's two nattys, 3x AA and don't forget Angel Escobedo, a champ and 4x All-American at 125

 

[11986]

9 minutes ago, TylerDurden said:

So Duane Goldman...err Mike Mena is the answer.

Dubuque's two nattys, 3x AA and don't forget Angel Escobedo, a champ and 4x All-American at 125

 

'03 through '09 the run where Indiana, Cornell, and Nebraska owned the 125 class. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

History of Champions in the lowest weight class.

• First the timeline of what was the lowest weight contested:

• By School, By Weight (pretty, but hard to read):

• By School, By Weight (ugly, but easy to read):

Edited November 15, 2023 by Wrestleknownothing

[ionel]

10 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

History of Champions in the lowest weight class.

• First the timeline of what was the lowest weight contested:

• By School, By Weight (pretty, but hard to read):

• By School, By Weight (ugly, but easy to read):

All I see is the brightest orange!