nhs67 Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 Greetings Gents... thought this would be cool/intersting to look at. For argument's sake, I am only going to look at Semifinals and on to see how things might have shaked out. 125 SF1 Old: Suriano over Cruz via 2-0 Decision New: Suriano over Cruz via 2-0 Decision SF2 Old: Lee over Tomasello via Pinfell at 6M5S (Up 8-2) New: Lee over Tomasello via Pinfell at 6M5S (Up 10-3) Final Old: Lee over Suriano via 5-1 Decision New: Lee over Suriano via 7-1 Decision 133 SF1 Old: Gross over Wilson via Pinfell at 7M18S (OT) (Up 12-10) New: Wilson over Gross via 15-11 Decision SF2 Old: Micic over Pletcher via 8-4 Decision New: Micic over Pletcher via 10-5 Decision Final Old: Gross over Micic via 13-8 Decision New: Gross over Micic via 14-12 Decision *Not sure how a Wilson-Micic match would have went. 141 SF1 Old: Meredith over McKenna via 1-0 Decision New: Meredith over McKenna via 1-0 Decision SF2 Old: Diakomihalis over Eierman via 6-4 Decision (OT) New: Diakomihalis over Eierman via 8-5 Decision (OT) Final Old: Diakomihalis over Meredith via 7-4 Decision New: Diakomihalis over Meredith via 9-5 Decision 149 SF1 Old: Retherford over Heilmann via 10-4 Decision New: Retherford over Heilmann via 14-4 Major SF2 Old: Perry over Kolodzik via 5-3 Decision New: Perry over Kolodzik via 6-4 Decision Final Old: Retherford over Perry via 6-2 Decision New: Retherford over Perry via 8-2 Decision 157 SF1 Old: Hidlay over Pantaleo via 10-2 Major New: Hidlay over Pantaleo via 11-3 Major SF2 Old: Nolf over Jordan via 16-0 Tech (4M28S) New: Nolf over Jordan via 18-0 Tech (4M28S) Final Old: Nolf over Hidlay via 6-2 Decision New: Nolf over Hidlay via 8-2 Decision 165 SF1 Old: Martinez over Marinelli via 5-2 Decision New: Martinez over Marinelli via 7-2 Decision SF2 Old: Joseph over McFadden via 3-1 Decision New: Joseph over McFadden via 4-1 Decision Final Old: Joseph over Martnez via 6-1 Decision New: Joseph over Martnez via 7-1 Decision 174 SF1 Old: Valencia over Amine via 7-5 Decision New: Valencia over Amine via 8-7 Decision (Amine gave up 2 points via stalling) SF2 Old: Hall over Lewis via Pinfell at 6M22S (Up 8-2) New: Hall over Lewis via Pinfell at 6M22S (Up 11-2) Final Old: Valencia over Hall via 8-2 Decision New: Valencia over Hall via 11-2 Major 184 SF1 Old: Nickal over Abounader via 6-3 Decision New: Nickal over Abounader via 8-3 Decision SF2 Old: Martin over Zavatsky via 8-4 Decision New: Martin over Zavatsky via 10-4 Decision Final Old: Nickal over Martin via Pinfell at 2M30S (Tied 2-2) New: Nickal over Martin via Pinfell at 2M30S (Down 3-2) 197 SF1 Old: Macchiavello over Conel via Pinfell at 4M19S (Up 6-2) New: Macchiavello over Conel via Pinfell at 4M19S (Up 8-3) SF2 Old: Haught over Darmstadt via Pinfell at 5M41S (Up 4-2) New: Haught over Darmstadt via Pinfell at 5M41S (Up 6-2) Final Old: Macchiavello over Haught via 3-1 Decision New: Macchiavello over Haught via 4-1 Decision 285 SF1 Old: Snyder over Kasper via 10-5 Decision New: Snyder over Kasper via 14-6 Major SF2 Old: Coon over Dhesi via 4-2 Decision New: Coon over Dhesi via 5-3 Decision Final Old: Snyder over Coon via 3-2 Decision New: Snyder over Coon via 4-2 Decision 2 "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhs67 Posted October 27, 2023 Author Share Posted October 27, 2023 A few other 'key' matchups... at least for Michigan standards... Abounader would have tied Parker in the consi-semis at 6-6 to send it in to overtime rather than a . That match was SUPER chippy. Parker got an escape with 9S remaining to win it 6-5. Maybe he doesn't get that escape? At 174 Amine would have beaten Lewis outright via 3-2 Decision for 3rd rather than in OT. At 165 Massa would have beaten Rogers in the Consis with a 2-1 TD edge and would not have gone in to OT. Aside for one match where he decided to be more Massa than ThugMassa G against Valencia, he owned that rivalry - so Massa would have brought home AA honors... perhaps making a run to third (he was 50/50 with Wick basically... and holds the advantage on McFadden and Marstellar in their careers. Walsh would have been a wildcard match). At 157 Pantaleo still gets beat up by Kemererereer on the backside and soundly beats Jordan for 5th. At 149 Amine beats Hayes in their first round via having a 1-0 TD edge and the match doesn't go in to OT. He is in the match against Blees of VT and Heilmann of North Carolina. Wouldn't that have been wild? At 133 Micic basically stays the same. At 125 Mattin loses on the backside to Lizak 18-7 rather than 17-6. "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim L Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 Surprisingly few differences in match results. IMO, Gross over Wilson always seemed to be a good example of what was wrong with the old scoring system not putting enough emphasis on TDs. Your scenarios assume that both wrestlers would have wrestled the exact same match despite what was on the scoreboard and the new incentive to score TDs. If the new rule does not change the how matches are wrestled there is not much point in the rule change. Just curious, in your re-scoring of the matches did you factor in the new riding time rules, not getting a RT point unless there is exposure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio Elite Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 That's interesting with Gross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhs67 Posted October 27, 2023 Author Share Posted October 27, 2023 9 minutes ago, Jim L said: Surprisingly few differences in match results. IMO, Gross over Wilson always seemed to be a good example of what was wrong with the old scoring system not putting enough emphasis on TDs. Your scenarios assume that both wrestlers would have wrestled the exact same match despite what was on the scoreboard and the new incentive to score TDs. If the new rule does not change the how matches are wrestled there is not much point in the rule change. Just curious, in your re-scoring of the matches did you factor in the new riding time rules, not getting a RT point unless there is exposure? This isn't a thing. Was not approved. "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio Elite Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 1 hour ago, nhs67 said: A few other 'key' matchups... at least for Michigan standards... Abounader would have tied Parker in the consi-semis at 6-6 to send it in to overtime rather than a . That match was SUPER chippy. Parker got an escape with 9S remaining to win it 6-5. Maybe he doesn't get that escape? At 174 Amine would have beaten Lewis outright via 3-2 Decision for 3rd rather than in OT. At 165 Massa would have beaten Rogers in the Consis with a 2-1 TD edge and would not have gone in to OT. Aside for one match where he decided to be more Massa than ThugMassa G against Valencia, he owned that rivalry - so Massa would have brought home AA honors... perhaps making a run to third (he was 50/50 with Wick basically... and holds the advantage on McFadden and Marstellar in their careers. Walsh would have been a wildcard match). At 157 Pantaleo still gets beat up by Kemererereer on the backside and soundly beats Jordan for 5th. At 149 Amine beats Hayes in their first round via having a 1-0 TD edge and the match doesn't go in to OT. He is in the match against Blees of VT and Heilmann of North Carolina. Wouldn't that have been wild? At 133 Micic basically stays the same. At 125 Mattin loses on the backside to Lizak 18-7 rather than 17-6. Good stuff man! Do you type this up with your phone or computer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhs67 Posted October 27, 2023 Author Share Posted October 27, 2023 2 minutes ago, Ohio Elite said: Good stuff man! Do you type this up with your phone or computer? I have to do it from the computer today. People got mad at me for calling people from Japan and Poland, respectively not as people from Japan and Poland? So I adjusted for the day. It's been a rough day. 1 "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim L Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 8 minutes ago, nhs67 said: This isn't a thing. Was not approved. Did not know that. Well, I am not going let this new information change my thinking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio Elite Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 I actually wondered when you were updating us for Worlds. I thought man this guy can type fast!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogbone Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 Good recap. Thanks for putting it together. Not that surprising. I expect the margins of victory to look different but the results to be similar. Generally, if someone gets more TDs they typically win. I know there a few exceptions but 1 out of 30 seems about right. My fear is we will see more stalling in the 3rd since the margin will be wider and the impact of a stalling call will be less severe. Hope that isn't the case. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 4 hours ago, nhs67 said: Greetings Gents... thought this would be cool/intersting to look at. For argument's sake, I am only going to look at Semifinals and on to see how things might have shaked out. 125 SF1 Old: Suriano over Cruz via 2-0 Decision New: Suriano over Cruz via 2-0 Decision SF2 Old: Lee over Tomasello via Pinfell at 6M5S (Up 8-2) New: Lee over Tomasello via Pinfell at 6M5S (Up 10-3) Final Old: Lee over Suriano via 5-1 Decision New: Lee over Suriano via 7-1 Decision 133 SF1 Old: Gross over Wilson via Pinfell at 7M18S (OT) (Up 12-10) New: Wilson over Gross via 15-11 Decision SF2 Old: Micic over Pletcher via 8-4 Decision New: Micic over Pletcher via 10-5 Decision Final Old: Gross over Micic via 13-8 Decision New: Gross over Micic via 14-12 Decision *Not sure how a Wilson-Micic match would have went. 141 SF1 Old: Meredith over McKenna via 1-0 Decision New: Meredith over McKenna via 1-0 Decision SF2 Old: Diakomihalis over Eierman via 6-4 Decision (OT) New: Diakomihalis over Eierman via 8-5 Decision (OT) Final Old: Diakomihalis over Meredith via 7-4 Decision New: Diakomihalis over Meredith via 9-5 Decision 149 SF1 Old: Retherford over Heilmann via 10-4 Decision New: Retherford over Heilmann via 14-4 Major SF2 Old: Perry over Kolodzik via 5-3 Decision New: Perry over Kolodzik via 6-4 Decision Final Old: Retherford over Perry via 6-2 Decision New: Retherford over Perry via 8-2 Decision 157 SF1 Old: Hidlay over Pantaleo via 10-2 Major New: Hidlay over Pantaleo via 11-3 Major SF2 Old: Nolf over Jordan via 16-0 Tech (4M28S) New: Nolf over Jordan via 18-0 Tech (4M28S) Final Old: Nolf over Hidlay via 6-2 Decision New: Nolf over Hidlay via 8-2 Decision 165 SF1 Old: Martinez over Marinelli via 5-2 Decision New: Martinez over Marinelli via 7-2 Decision SF2 Old: Joseph over McFadden via 3-1 Decision New: Joseph over McFadden via 4-1 Decision Final Old: Joseph over Martnez via 6-1 Decision New: Joseph over Martnez via 7-1 Decision 174 SF1 Old: Valencia over Amine via 7-5 Decision New: Valencia over Amine via 8-7 Decision (Amine gave up 2 points via stalling) SF2 Old: Hall over Lewis via Pinfell at 6M22S (Up 8-2) New: Hall over Lewis via Pinfell at 6M22S (Up 11-2) Final Old: Valencia over Hall via 8-2 Decision New: Valencia over Hall via 11-2 Major 184 SF1 Old: Nickal over Abounader via 6-3 Decision New: Nickal over Abounader via 8-3 Decision SF2 Old: Martin over Zavatsky via 8-4 Decision New: Martin over Zavatsky via 10-4 Decision Final Old: Nickal over Martin via Pinfell at 2M30S (Tied 2-2) New: Nickal over Martin via Pinfell at 2M30S (Down 3-2) 197 SF1 Old: Macchiavello over Conel via Pinfell at 4M19S (Up 6-2) New: Macchiavello over Conel via Pinfell at 4M19S (Up 8-3) SF2 Old: Haught over Darmstadt via Pinfell at 5M41S (Up 4-2) New: Haught over Darmstadt via Pinfell at 5M41S (Up 6-2) Final Old: Macchiavello over Haught via 3-1 Decision New: Macchiavello over Haught via 4-1 Decision 285 SF1 Old: Snyder over Kasper via 10-5 Decision New: Snyder over Kasper via 14-6 Major SF2 Old: Coon over Dhesi via 4-2 Decision New: Coon over Dhesi via 5-3 Decision Final Old: Snyder over Coon via 3-2 Decision New: Snyder over Coon via 4-2 Decision You lost me at pinfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchapman Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 51 minutes ago, ionel said: You lost me at pinfell. He lost me at "shaked." Craig Henning got screwed in the 2007 NCAA Finals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 2 minutes ago, jchapman said: He lost me at "shaked." He's taking about college kids so ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhs67 Posted October 27, 2023 Author Share Posted October 27, 2023 8 minutes ago, jchapman said: He lost me at "shaked." Shook? Is it shook? "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhs67 Posted October 27, 2023 Author Share Posted October 27, 2023 1 hour ago, ionel said: You lost me at pinfell. @Wrestleknownothing Educate this toon? "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, nhs67 said: @Wrestleknownothing Educate this toon? Wkn is too busy doing cartwheels over all the pinfells in this thread. BTW: thats Mr. Toon to you boy. Edited October 27, 2023 by ionel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhs67 Posted October 27, 2023 Author Share Posted October 27, 2023 Apologies. "I know actually nothing. It isn't even conjecture at this point." - me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 accepted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 25 minutes ago, nhs67 said: @Wrestleknownothing Educate this toon? There are limits Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchapman Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 44 minutes ago, nhs67 said: Shook? Is it shook? Yes, but I have to be honest I googled it just to be sure! 1 Craig Henning got screwed in the 2007 NCAA Finals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 19 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said: There are limits hay now! if a pin fell in a message forum and all had their volume on mute would any know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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