Progressives vs liberals

[Ban Basketball]

Sure glad that I can take my refuge in my family,  my readings, my music, and my banjo. 

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Ban Basketball

[uncle bernard]

2 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

you sincerely believe more people take scrutiny for their leftist views than people on the right do?

please tell me you just woke up from a nap you took in 1970. 

if it’s so absurd, surely you can find one example of a mass firing to show me. just one. 

does the “they had to pull it off tv” bs you just fell for give you any pause here? any introspection? maybe you’re just seeing tweets from people in your right wing media bubble and believing everything they say?

[uncle bernard]

9 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

i don't believe in 'canceling' anyone.

but these cases, which are 1) numerous and 2) that you're obviously/hopefully unaware of

go way beyond an offensive remark or a harmless deed. they ruin kids' lives. 

if you ARE aware of them, and still feel the same way, you're scumbag of a human.

1) i doubt it

2) wtf are you talking about? ruin kids lives? all these kids have smart phones and see stuff 1000x more graphic on the internet every day. 

like give me an example of someone who got their life ruined by a teacher doing…what exactly?

[uncle bernard]

This whole thing is just a bunch of people sitting around the campfire making up stories to scare themselves. And half of them don’t even have kids (like willie). unbelievably pathetic weirdos. 

Edited October 20, 2023 by uncle bernard

[Husker_Du]

you're so....either unaware or naive or making excuses.

kids are being groomed and funneled in to life altering decisions at ages and developments WAY too young. and it's far too often batshit crazy teachers encouraging them.

i prefer to believe that you're just unaware and not a callous piece of shit that doesn't care about the welfare of innocent children.

like i said, there are videos every single day of totally inappropriate teachers discussing what they talk about with 4 to 10 year olds. there are countless stories of youngsters taht made decisions b/c of pressure from their teachers. and there are countless cases of gender transition regret 

but you're right - i don't have kids. so i don't really NEED to care as much as do. i just find it repulsive.

and you repulsive for defending it. 

below is one example. i agree with almost every single point they make. and keep in mind, Blair White, herself, is trans. 

 

 

[uncle bernard]

24 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

you're so....either unaware or naive or making excuses.

kids are being groomed and funneled in to life altering decisions at ages and developments WAY too young. and it's far too often batshit crazy teachers encouraging them.

i prefer to believe that you're just unaware and not a callous piece of shit that doesn't care about the welfare of innocent children.

like i said, there are videos every single day of totally inappropriate teachers discussing what they talk about with 4 to 10 year olds. there are countless stories of youngsters taht made decisions b/c of pressure from their teachers. and there are countless cases of gender transition regret 

but you're right - i don't have kids. so i don't really NEED to care as much as do. i just find it repulsive.

and you repulsive for defending it. 

below is one example. i agree with almost every single point they make. and keep in mind, Blair White, herself, is trans. 

 

 

I’m sorry, THIS is what you’re shitting your pants over??? lol

i can tell you’ve had your brain melted by the internet. nothing in that video is scary. 

meanwhile, conservatives groups are trying to stop teachers from teaching basic US history because it doesn’t all glorify our great nation. you guys don’t want to live in a democracy. you want to live in christian saudi arabia.

 

[Husker_Du]

1) wow. what a scumbag. i guess i shouldn't have expected common decency from someone whose first and loudest reaction after infant beheadings was to lament the plight of the perpetrators. 

2) where and what? what are they refusing to teach?

3) wow. what a scumbag. 

 

[jross]

1 hour ago, uncle bernard said:

if it’s so absurd, surely you can find one example of a mass firing to show me. just one. 

Bernie- the ‘mass’ firing refers the cancel culture where strangers and acquaintances acted to get people fired because of their beliefs and comments.  Often the comments were taken out of context and the mob was miss informed.

Gina Carino is a popular example off the top of mind.

Here are a few more examples https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/stop-firing-innocent/613615/

There are many examples.

In the last few years, sharing thoughts with colleagues at work about the Covid policies or anything conservative on Facebook and Twitter was unthinkable for fear of cancel culture.  The mob uses pitchforks before the facts are known.

[uncle bernard]

56 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

1) wow. what a scumbag. i guess i shouldn't have expected common decency from someone whose first and loudest reaction after infant beheadings was to lament the plight of the perpetrators. 

2) where and what? what are they refusing to teach?

3) wow. what a scumbag. 

 

1) infant beheadings didn’t happen. there is zero evidence. also, what happens to infants heads who are hit by bombs?

2) Conservative states are rewriting curriculums to not focus on things that make us look bad like slavery and indigenous genocide. 

3) sorry i don’t think teachers explaining what trans people are is ruining kids’ lives. i’m normal. 

[uncle bernard]

11 minutes ago, jross said:

Bernie- the ‘mass’ firing refers the cancel culture where strangers and acquaintances acted to get people fired because of their beliefs and comments.  Often the comments were taken out of context and the mob was miss informed.

Gina Carino is a popular example off the top of mind.

Here are a few more examples https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/stop-firing-innocent/613615/

There are many examples.

In the last few years, sharing thoughts with colleagues at work about the Covid policies or anything conservative on Facebook and Twitter was unthinkable for fear of cancel culture.  The mob uses pitchforks before the facts are known.

1) Gina Carano’s number one problem is that she can’t act. 

2) I think we’re overstating the scale of this problem considerably. Yes there are isolated incidents of overzealous people on both sides. But 99.9% of this country will never have to worry about cancel culture. 

There is also a solution to this. Let’s end at-will employment and get everybody in a union who will protect their rights. No more getting fired for personal views. I’m sure the right will be lining up to do just that!

[jross]

23 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

Conservative states are rewriting curriculums to not focus on things that make us look bad like slavery and indigenous genocide. 

The more I read history, the more I learn it is not just a conservative thing to omit information.

I did not know that many white people were enslaved in Africa and that there were instances where black men owned white slaves in America.  And that Africans caught and sold Africans as slaves as a steady supply to other countries.

This doesn’t help the narrative…

[jross]

Gina had a large following and was popular.  She had a Star Wars spinoff coming for her. 

How many deplatforms and firings would it take to count as ‘many.’

[Husker_Du]

1 hour ago, uncle bernard said:

2) Conservative states are rewriting curriculums to not focus on things that make us look bad like slavery and indigenous genocide. 

can you show me some examples because i don't believe you. please don't say florida, bc that was a lie just like 'dont say gay was'

1 hour ago, uncle bernard said:

3) sorry i don’t think teachers explaining what trans people are is ruining kids’ lives. i’m normal. 

here's the problem, you haven't come across this material and information. 

if you don't want to look foolish, look some stuff up. saying they are 'just explaining what trans is' makes you sound like an effing moron. it's akin to saying 'racism isn't that bad'. you're just too stupid to know it.

there are plenty of gross indecencies that are a matter of public record. there's whole docs about it.

i'm done arguing about it with you. nothing gets in my crawl more than harming or taking advantage of kids and the scum who dismiss it. 

and you're clearly 'one of those types' who refuses to become educated on something and instead talks out their ass. between this and topic, your stanning for Palestine, and your dumbass DM's that made not one bit of sense, i don't have enough respect for you to go round and round. stay ignorant for all i care. 

 

[uncle bernard]

9 hours ago, jross said:

The more I read history, the more I learn it is not just a conservative thing to omit information.

I did not know that many white people were enslaved in Africa and that there were instances where black men owned white slaves in America.  And that Africans caught and sold Africans as slaves as a steady supply to other countries.

This doesn’t help the narrative…

Okay but you’re taking about strange outliers and putting that on a level with an entire system where millions of black people were enslaved. That’s poor reasoning. 

And yes slaves were sold by Africans. That’s not covered up history. 

[jross]

Ah but why omit?

[uncle bernard]

3 minutes ago, jross said:

Ah but why omit?

Do any of you actually remember what history class was like? It’s not a graduate seminar lol

”why didn’t they focus on the slave owner who was really nice to his slaves?”

idk because that’s not the norm or representative of the period and there’s a limited amount of time and attention span when you’re teaching 30 bored teenagers.

[jross]

21 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

Do any of you actually remember what history class was like? It’s not a graduate seminar lol

”why didn’t they focus on the slave owner who was really nice to his slaves?”

idk because that’s not the norm or representative of the period and there’s a limited amount of time and attention span when you’re teaching 30 bored teenagers.

A fun history teacher had us crumple papers and fight the Civil War.  When he had our attention... he taught from history books that omitted and whitewashed information.  We spent an unusual amount of time on how Helen Keller learned to read, write, and speak... we had assignments on this heroine... and never discussed that she was a radical socialist.  Given the substantial amount of time spent on her 'overcomings,' we could have learned a little about her controversies or covered another topic in better detail.

Those in power shape the narrative; this is a people problem, not just a conservative problem.

 

[Plasmodium]

53 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

Do any of you actually remember what history class was like? It’s not a graduate seminar lol

”why didn’t they focus on the slave owner who was really nice to his slaves?”

idk because that’s not the norm or representative of the period and there’s a limited amount of time and attention span when you’re teaching 30 bored teenagers.

This is truth.

There are a lot of nuances skipped over simply because there isn't even enough time for crux of it 

Give @jross some credit for coming up with new examples of people abusing people so we can point collective fingers elsewhere.  Usually people go straight for Europeans bought slaves from Africans.

[Bigbrog]

Funny when people ask for examples and when provided completely write them off as one off extreme cases, yet will do the exact same thing when asked to provide examples for their claims.  Hypocrisy at its finest

And I am on the side of those who think those that dismiss atrocities/abuses to kids and terrorists are scum of the earth

[jross]

The book "Lies My Teacher Told Me" does a great job of making the case beyond time-based omission.  It's where I learned that people like Washington Irving have defended this behavior since at least the early 1800s: "Care should be taken to vindicate great names from pernicious erudition."  In 1925, the American Legion declaimed that the ideal textbook:

• must inspire children with patriotism
• must be careful to tell the truth optimistically
• must dwell on failure only for its value as a moral lesson; must speak chiefly of success
• must give each State and Section full space and value for the achievements of each

And that is what textbooks do.

The books might be better if they followed the recommendations of Shirley Engle and Anna Ochoa (1986)

• confront students with important questions and problems for which answers are not readily available
• be highly selective
• be organized around an important problem in society that is to be studied in depth
• utilize... data from a variety of sources such as history, the social sciences, literature, journalism, and from student's first-hand experience

The future will be interesting on the topics of Covid, 2020 election, and J6.  George Orwell's "Who controls the present controls the past" will dictate how history is written.

Do you remember all the questions you were supposed to remember at the end of the History book chapters?  There was more information that you could memorize answers for and understand.  Rather than glossing over an infinite amount of small stories over 1000 pages, focusing on a dozen major issues with relevance to the present... would be better.  

I'm getting off point which is that omission is not just a conservative behavior, and omissions are not only due to time constraints.

[Ban Basketball]

11 hours ago, jross said:

The more I read history, the more I learn it is not just a conservative thing to omit information.

I did not know that many white people were enslaved in Africa and that there were instances where black men owned white slaves in America.  And that Africans caught and sold Africans as slaves as a steady supply to other countries.

This doesn’t help the narrative…

Baloney. That's Stormfront.org bot talk that's been around for the thirty years that I've paid attention to these authoritarian movements. 

And,  no,  I don't want to read a link based on a fabricated story. 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Ban Basketball

[Ban Basketball]

1 hour ago, uncle bernard said:

Do any of you actually remember what history class was like? It’s not a graduate seminar lol

”why didn’t they focus on the slave owner who was really nice to his slaves?”

idk because that’s not the norm or representative of the period and there’s a limited amount of time and attention span when you’re teaching 30 bored teenagers.

AMEN! No volume of history is complete. 

Man,  what people fall for!

[Ban Basketball]

25 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

 

And I am on the side of those who think those that dismiss atrocities/abuses to kids and terrorists are scum of the earth

Then you're LOVING the fact that I've been extensively covering the right wing authoritarian movement today,  their terrorist activity,  and EXTENSIVE coverage of Jan 6 and what the causes of it were. 

I'm keeping good ol Biggy happy,  friends!

[jross]

2 minutes ago, Ban Basketball said:

Baloney. That's Stormfront.org bot talk that's been around for the thirty years that I've paid attention to these authoritarian movements. 

And,  no,  I don't want to read a link based on a fabricated story. 

Perhaps your history books omitted details in the Barbary Wars, how the black-African Anthony Johnson won a Virginia court case in 1655 that he owned the white slave named John Casar for life, and the Atlantic slave trade.  These seem to be recorded documented facts.  None of this changes the horridness of slavery in America. 

It might be worth discussing slavery as it exists today in America and in other countries.  Then look back at the horridness of the American slave trade.  At least spend some time discussing, "Why did Africans capture and sell Africans as slaves (perhaps it was tribe A (us) or tribe B (them)) for the Euros, Why could non-euro citizens own euro citizens during the colonial period and why did this stop, and how was slavery during the Barbary Wars different than American slavery?  

This discussion can be had without downplaying what happened in America.

[Ban Basketball]

13 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

you're so....either unaware or naive or making excuses.

kids are being groomed and funneled in to life altering decisions at ages and developments WAY too young. and it's far too often batshit crazy teachers encouraging them.

i prefer to believe that you're just unaware and not a callous piece of shit that doesn't care about the welfare of innocent children.

like i said, there are videos every single day of totally inappropriate teachers discussing what they talk about with 4 to 10 year olds. there are countless stories of youngsters taht made decisions b/c of pressure from their teachers. and there are countless cases of gender transition regret 

but you're right - i don't have kids. so i don't really NEED to care as much as do. i just find it repulsive.

and you repulsive for defending it. 

below is one example. i agree with almost every single point they make. and keep in mind, Blair White, herself, is trans. 

 

 

Like to know how many hours the two hate mongers have spent in the classroom,  other than no hours. 

I'd like to remind the tattooed one that not so long ago that tattoos on women was very much frowned upon.