Plasmodium Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 4 minutes ago, PortaJohn said: China is a melting pot of communism, fascism, socialism, with a sprinkle of authoritarian capitalism. So the teenager was right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortaJohn Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Plasmodium said: So the teenager was right. Depends how you want to define right. Politically China is very much communist 1 I Don't Agree With What I Posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasmodium Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Just now, PortaJohn said: Depends how you want to define right. Politically China is very much communist They give it lip service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offthemat Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Plasmodium said: They give it lip service. They use their boots a lot more than they use their lips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortaJohn Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Plasmodium said: They give it lip service. China is very much a Communist country just like the US is very much a capitalist country despite having government funded schools. I Don't Agree With What I Posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasmodium Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 5 minutes ago, PortaJohn said: China is very much a Communist country just like the US is very much a capitalist country despite having government funded schools. False equivalency and the US isn't even in the conversation . You can say the US conforms to Linus Van Peltism and it won't be germaine. Communism, by its definition, is poorly suited to degradation. This kinda says it is not communist. https://www.forbes.com/lists/china-billionaires/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jross Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Plasmodium said: Do you feel most Cubans are worse off now than before Castro's revolution? What does it imply when considering there were 125,000 Cuban immigrants in America across 50 years before the revolution, 250,000 Cuban immigrants in the first 3 years post-revolution, and over 1 million Cuban immigrants in the US across the next 50 years? Edited October 30, 2023 by jross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jross Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 50 minutes ago, Plasmodium said: What is communism and why do you think China fits that definition? The Chinese Communist Party (CCP),[3] officially the Communist Party of China (CPC),[4] is the founding and sole ruling party of the People's Republic of China (PRC). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Communist_Party https://www.britannica.com/topic/Chinese-Communist-Party 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mspart Posted October 30, 2023 Author Share Posted October 30, 2023 4 minutes ago, Plasmodium said: False equivalency and the US isn't even in the conversation . You can say the US conforms to Linus Van Peltism and it won't be germaine. Communism, by its definition, is poorly suited to degradation. This kinda says it is not communist. https://www.forbes.com/lists/china-billionaires/ This is unintentionally funny I think. mspart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle bernard Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 11 minutes ago, jross said: The Chinese Communist Party (CCP),[3] officially the Communist Party of China (CPC),[4] is the founding and sole ruling party of the People's Republic of China (PRC). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Communist_Party https://www.britannica.com/topic/Chinese-Communist-Party The Democratic People's Republic of Korea would like a word with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasmodium Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 10 minutes ago, jross said: The Chinese Communist Party (CCP),[3] officially the Communist Party of China (CPC),[4] is the founding and sole ruling party of the People's Republic of China (PRC). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Communist_Party https://www.britannica.com/topic/Chinese-Communist-Party They can say anything they want. We learned that from the teenager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jross Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Plasmodium said: They can say anything they want. We learned that from the teenager. Well, their constitution says: Quote The realization of communism is the highest ideal and ultimate goal of the Party. The Communist Party of China takes Marxism-Leninism, Mao Zedong Thought, Deng Xiaoping Theory, the important thought of Three Represents and the Scientific Outlook on Development as its guide to action. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasmodium Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 22 minutes ago, jross said: What does it imply when considering there were 125,000 Cuban immigrants in America across 50 years before the revolution, 250,000 Cuban immigrants in the first 3 years post-revolution, and over 1 million Cuban immigrants in the US across the next 50 years? Not answering the question/answering a question with a question, which is understandable when you don't fancy the answer to the original question. Most of the first immigrants were the ruling class, which had nothing to do with the average person and in fact were the cause of the revolution. The rest of the immigrants are consistent with immigration numbers from Latin America or even less, which is independent of economic or ideological philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasmodium Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, jross said: Well, their constitution says: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mspart Posted October 30, 2023 Author Share Posted October 30, 2023 You can't convince Plasi or UB that China, North Korea, or Cuba are communist. mspart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasmodium Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, mspart said: You can't convince Plasi or UB that China, North Korea, or Cuba are communist. mspart I didn't say Cuba and DRK are or aren't communist. I implied Cuba is when I asked jross a question. I haven't given it much thought. Fun fact: Expected life span is Cuba is longer than that of the US. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jross Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, Plasmodium said: Not answering the question/answering a question with a question, which is understandable when you don't fancy the answer to the original question. Most of the first immigrants were the ruling class, which had nothing to do with the average person and in fact were the cause of the revolution. The rest of the immigrants are consistent with immigration numbers from Latin America or even less, which is independent of economic or ideological philosophy. I answered your question strongly. It is a subjective question with pros/cons documented by folks who lived in both situations (quora). Rather than debating subjective opinions, I pointed out that the actions the Cubans took were the answer. Sure the initial departure was the ruling class, but that's the minority overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jross Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Plasmodium said: Well, my family friend 'Angel' (who left China and still has family living in China) also says and criticizes... Edited October 30, 2023 by jross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasmodium Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Just now, jross said: I answered your question strongly. It is a subjective question with pros/cons documented by folks who lived in both situations (quora). Rather than debating subjective opinions, I pointed out that the actions the Cubans took were the answer. Sure the initial departure was the ruling class, but that's the minority overall. You didn't answer the question. The question seeks to determine whether life was diminished under communism for the average Cuban, not the wealthy. Immigration numbers fifty years add nothing meaningful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasmodium Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, jross said: Well, my family friend 'Angel' (who left China) also says and criticizes it... Well, Zhong ShanShan, who is worth > 62,000,000,000 dollars, lands on my side of the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jross Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 ...support it depends on what characteristics and actions you want to emphasize. Since you say China is not what it says it is, and China is not what it says it strives to be, how does Plasi label the ideology? China describes its economic system as "socialism with Chinese characteristics" but does that mean the 'country' is not communist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortaJohn Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 1 minute ago, jross said: ...support it depends on what characteristics and actions you want to emphasize. Since you say China is not what it says it is, and China is not what it says it strives to be, how does Plasi label the ideology? China describes its economic system as "socialism with Chinese characteristics" but does that mean the 'country' is not communist? It's not worth continuing the conversation. This is a decades long tactic done by communist sympathizers. Any time something deviates from the manifesto it's automatically deemed not communism even if the direct result is due to communism I Don't Agree With What I Posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasmodium Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, jross said: ...support it depends on what characteristics and actions you want to emphasize. Since you say China is not what it says it is, and China is not what it says it strives to be, how does Plasi label the ideology? China describes its economic system as "socialism with Chinese characteristics" but does that mean the 'country' is not communist? I don't have any labels for it. Communist is communist. That ain't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasmodium Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, PortaJohn said: It's not worth continuing the conversation. This is a decades long tactic done by communist sympathizers. Any time something deviates from the manifesto it's automatically deemed not communism even if the direct result is due to communism I'm not a communist sympathizer but I can objectively spot a communist society. Further, I can understand the appeal and practicality that socialism or communism holds for the masses of an absolutely corrupt society, such as the one in Batista's Cuba. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mspart Posted October 30, 2023 Author Share Posted October 30, 2023 13 minutes ago, Plasmodium said: I don't have any labels for it. Communist is communist. That ain't it. You are perhaps the only person in the world that says China is not communist. You need to start a club. mspart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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