Israel Attacked

[uncle bernard]

a grown man who calls himself “the brain” seriously can’t wrap his mind around why Egypt doesn’t want to be a part of ethnic cleaning lol stupid beyond belief

i guess not that surprising considering he accidentally proposed ethnic cleansing as his ideal solution lol

Edited November 5, 2023 by uncle bernard

[uncle bernard]

 

[jross]

Honoring the 1951 United Nations Refugee Convention and its 1967 Protocol does not enable ethnic cleansing. 

I wouldn't want to be on the side of history that denied safety to the Gaza citizens reported as desperately trying to leave Gaza.

#Egypt

[uncle bernard]

1 hour ago, jross said:

Honoring the 1951 United Nations Refugee Convention and its 1967 Protocol does not enable ethnic cleansing. 

I wouldn't want to be on the side of history that denied safety to the Gaza citizens reported as desperately trying to leave Gaza.

#Egypt

your reasoning is that they’re indirectly helping ethnic cleansing by not allowing civilians to flee violence and your solution is that they should be directly aiding in ethnic cleansing instead. 

[jross]

Egypt is forcing Gazans to stay on land that Israel announced they will bomb.  

There is a difference between Egypt cooperating with Israel to relocate Palestinians versus Egypt opening the door to the Palestinians at the gate, allowing them to seek refuge.

Edited November 6, 2023 by jross

[GreatWhiteNorth]

3 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

a grown man who calls himself “the brain” seriously can’t wrap his mind around why Egypt doesn’t want to be a part of ethnic cleaning lol stupid beyond belief

i guess not that surprising considering he accidentally proposed ethnic cleansing as his ideal solution lol

What a bunch of bullshit.

There is no ethnic cleansing going on, lying bastards like you keep claiming there is - but there isn't. Israel is targeting Hamas (the militant group who attacked them), and not targeting civilian Palestinians. That is NOT ethnic cleansing.

Due to the Hamas attack, Israel and Hamas are now at war. During war, civilians perish - on both sides. That is one of the many downsides of the horrible nature of war. But because civilians perish, doesn't make it ethnic cleansing. Not even close. 

Nobody is being forcibly moved from Gaza. Nobody. They have been warned to clear out from the areas they intend to attack and move to a safer location inside Gaza. That is NOT ethnic cleansing.

It is beyond ridiculous that you - and others - keep making the BS claim of ethnic cleansing. 

As everyone knows by now, Hamas is a lying terrorist group that hides among civilians and in hospitals.

Egypt doesn't want any part of Hamas making their way into Egypt as they hide among civilians and use terrorist tactics that are abhorrent in any even remotely civilized society.

Other countries agree with Egypt, as should they all. Hamas is an evil cancer - not to be welcomed anywhere.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

... and, to reiterate what I've already previously posted, I would like to see Israeli change their military strategy to put more emphasis on protecting civilian lives.

That being said, I would also like to see Hamas (and Hezbollah) do the same - by stopping the rocket attacks into civilian area of Israel.

It is extremely difficult to accept allowing Iranian sponsored militant terror groups to be held to a lower standard than the Israeli military.

If the Iranian sponsored terrorists continue to target and kill Israeli citizens without apology or remorse, then how could anyone reasonably accuse Israel of being any worse than Iran/Hamas/Hezbollah?

They simply could not.

And don't forget - only one group is holding hundreds of civilian hostages. An unacceptable and barbaric act.

[uncle bernard]

1 hour ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

What a bunch of bullshit.

There is no ethnic cleansing going on, lying bastards like you keep claiming there is - but there isn't. Israel is targeting Hamas (the militant group who attacked them), and not targeting civilian Palestinians. That is NOT ethnic cleansing.

Due to the Hamas attack, Israel and Hamas are now at war. During war, civilians perish - on both sides. That is one of the many downsides of the horrible nature of war. But because civilians perish, doesn't make it ethnic cleansing. Not even close. 

Nobody is being forcibly moved from Gaza. Nobody. They have been warned to clear out from the areas they intend to attack and move to a safer location inside Gaza. That is NOT ethnic cleansing.

It is beyond ridiculous that you - and others - keep making the BS claim of ethnic cleansing. 

As everyone knows by now, Hamas is a lying terrorist group that hides among civilians and in hospitals.

Egypt doesn't want any part of Hamas making their way into Egypt as they hide among civilians and use terrorist tactics that are abhorrent in any even remotely civilized society.

Other countries agree with Egypt, as should they all. Hamas is an evil cancer - not to be welcomed anywhere.

you wrote a lot of words addressing something we aren’t talking about. willie is asking why other countries don’t let in all the palestinians. THAT (the forcible removal of Palestinians from Palestine) would be ethnic cleansing. 

hamas is a terrorist org. doesn’t change the fact that if the palestinians are removed from gaza, it would be ethnic cleansing. and that’s the hypothetical willie brought up. 

[uncle bernard]

2 hours ago, jross said:

Egypt is forcing Gazans to stay on land that Israel announced they will bomb.  

There is a difference between Egypt cooperating with Israel to relocate Palestinians versus Egypt opening the door to the Palestinians at the gate, allowing them to seek refuge.

not in the final result. if egypt opens the door, the palestinians are forced in to escape the bombing and not allowed to return, egypt will be blamed in the arab world forever for allowing israel to ethnically cleansed gaza. 

im not saying it’s a good thing. i’m just telling you that is the political reality and the main reason they aren’t letting them in right now. 

obviously, the palestinians are the ones suffering for this political game between israel and the arab world, but that’s not new. 

[uncle bernard]

2 hours ago, jross said:

Egypt is forcing Gazans to stay on land that Israel announced they will bomb.  

There is a difference between Egypt cooperating with Israel to relocate Palestinians versus Egypt opening the door to the Palestinians at the gate, allowing them to seek refuge.

also just pointing out that israel said civilians would be safe in south gaza, but bombed it anyway. 

at some point, you guys have to give israel some of the blame for the damage here, even if you think they’re on the right side. they are not following international law. civilians always die in war, but not at this scale. israel has already killed more civilians in 3 weeks than russia has killed in nearly 2 years of war. claims that they try to avoid civilian harm are not serious. 

[GreatWhiteNorth]

17 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

you wrote a lot of words addressing something we aren’t talking about. willie is asking why other countries don’t let in all the palestinians. THAT (the forcible removal of Palestinians from Palestine) would be ethnic cleansing. 

hamas is a terrorist org. doesn’t change the fact that if the palestinians are removed from gaza, it would be ethnic cleansing. and that’s the hypothetical willie brought up. 

Get your head of your ass and read the "lot of words" that I posted. They are exactly what we are talking about.

I specifically addressed the non-removal of Palestinians from Gaza and why it isn't at all ethnic cleansing. As well as why other countries won't allow Palestinians in. 

Obviously, you aren't reading the very posts you are so weakly responding to. Read the posts, dummy.

You have proven you are even more of a bonehead than you've appeared the last few weeks. (And that's not an easy thing to accomplish.) 

[GreatWhiteNorth]

5 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

also just pointing out that israel said civilians would be safe in south gaza, but bombed it anyway. 

at some point, you guys have to give israel some of the blame for the damage here, even if you think they’re on the right side. they are not following international law. civilians always die in war, but not at this scale. israel has already killed more civilians in 3 weeks than russia has killed in nearly 2 years of war. claims that they try to avoid civilian harm are not serious. 

Nope. You continue to your lying ways.

Israeli warned civilians to move south so they wouldn't be in direct danger of the imminent bombing.

That is NOT the same as saying they "will be safe". Israel made no such guarantee. There are no 100% guaranteed safe zones in war - particularly if your enemy hides behind civilians and in hospitals, etc. like weak dogs.

You bring up international law? There is nothing - zero - nada - about what Hamas does that follows international law. Just more lying bullshit from you. Terrorists don't follow international law.

Wake up, dummy. Terrorists kill innocent civilians on purpose - by the hundreds and thousands (and many more if they could.) Any argument you make that others aren't doing enough to protect civilians is incredibly stupid.

Anyone who tries to defend terrorists and their murderous ways is sick and twisted. 

[uncle bernard]

9 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

Get your head of your ass and read the "lot of words" that I posted. They are exactly what we are talking about.

I specifically addressed the non-removal of Palestinians from Gaza and why it isn't at all ethnic cleansing. As well as why other countries won't allow Palestinians in. 

Obviously, you aren't reading the very posts you are so weakly responding to. Read the posts, dummy.

You have proven you are even more of a bonehead than you've appeared the last few weeks. (And that's not an easy thing to accomplish.) 

you have serious issues with reading comp. 

willie asked why arab countries aren’t letting refugees in. 

in this hypothetical situation, if egypt were to let in all the palestinian refugees and Israel did not let them return, that would be ethnic cleansing. 

that is what egypt is afraid of. 

we were discussing a hypothetical. i don’t know how to make it more clear for you. this is data for progress all over again. 

[uncle bernard]

8 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

Nope. You continue to your lying ways.

Israeli warned civilians to move south so they wouldn't be in direct danger of the imminent bombing.

That is NOT the same as saying they "will be safe". Israel made no such guarantee. There are no 100% guaranteed safe zones in war - particularly if your enemy hides behind civilians and in hospitals, etc. like weak dogs.

You bring up international law? There is nothing - zero - nada - about what Hamas does that follows international law. Just more lying bullshit from you. Terrorists don't follow international law.

Wake up, dummy. Terrorists kill innocent civilians on purpose - by the hundreds and thousands (and many more if they could.) Any argument you make that others aren't doing enough to protect civilians is incredibly stupid.

Anyone who tries to defend terrorists and their murderous ways is sick and twisted. 

of course hamas doesn’t follow international law. they are a terrorist group. 

israel is supposed to be a civilized country who follows the law. if you disagree and think they’re a terror state, that’s fine, but i have higher expectations for a country that receives billions in taxpayer money. 

[uncle bernard]

imagine this was your daily reality

 

[Bigbrog]

Can't believe I am saying this but GWN is spot on.  UB just wants to keep spewing the same rhetoric over and over in order to somehow make it true...and I am not sure why, other than he supports one side over the other...and the side he supports isn't Israel.

[jross]

UB core says

1. Hamas is bad, but I understand some of their motivations, including Israel's behavior.
2. Israel should better ensure the safety of Palestinian civilians when targeting Hamas.
3. There are innocent Palestinian citizens forced to stay and risk death or fleeing violence.

Some people might interpret UB's stance as:

1. "Israel is bad," which isn't what UB is saying.
2. "Hamas is justified," which also isn't UB's message.

Supporting humanitarian rights for Palestinian citizens doesn't mean supporting Hamas, and understanding the reasons behind Hamas's actions doesn't equate to supporting Hamas itself. 

[jross]

12 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

not in the final result. if egypt opens the door, the palestinians are forced in to escape the bombing and not allowed to return, egypt will be blamed in the arab world forever for allowing israel to ethnically cleansed gaza. 

im not saying it’s a good thing. i’m just telling you that is the political reality and the main reason they aren’t letting them in right now. 

obviously, the palestinians are the ones suffering for this political game between israel and the arab world, but that’s not new. 

Regardless of Israel's history with Palestinian refugees, the best ethical choice for Egypt (and Israel) is to provide refuge to the Palestinians at the gate.  It is a humanitarian obligation and should be framed as such.   

The stronger reason that Egypt doesn't want Palestinian refugees is one of national security, such as the president saying that the refugees would continue terrorizing Israel and would bring about an Egypt vs. Israel war.

The security reason is the driver, and 'complicit in ethnic cleansing' is some spin.  One would think that the humanitarian choice to save lives has higher international value than concern about land possession.

Edited November 6, 2023 by jross

[uncle bernard]

1 hour ago, jross said:

Regardless of Israel's history with Palestinian refugees, the best ethical choice for Egypt (and Israel) is to provide refuge to the Palestinians at the gate.  It is a humanitarian obligation and should be framed as such.   

The stronger reason that Egypt doesn't want Palestinian refugees is one of national security, such as the president saying that the refugees would continue terrorizing Israel and would bring about an Egypt vs. Israel war.

The security reason is the driver, and 'complicit in ethnic cleansing' is some spin.  One would think that the humanitarian choice to save lives has higher international value than concern about land possession.

I think you're greatly underestimating the power of this political issue. But you're right that security concerns definitely play a part. Hamas would certainly have cells among the refugees and start operating out of the Sinai.

[Bigbrog]

2 hours ago, jross said:

UB core says

1. Hamas is bad, but I understand some of their motivations, including Israel's behavior.
2. Israel should better ensure the safety of Palestinian civilians when targeting Hamas.
3. There are innocent Palestinian citizens forced to stay and risk death or fleeing violence.

Some people might interpret UB's stance as:

1. "Israel is bad," which isn't what UB is saying.
2. "Hamas is justified," which also isn't UB's message.

Supporting humanitarian rights for Palestinian citizens doesn't mean supporting Hamas, and understanding the reasons behind Hamas's actions doesn't equate to supporting Hamas itself. 

Hopefully that is all true, but what about the constant rhetoric that Israel is partaking in "ethnic cleansing"??  Which is propaganda Humas spews.  He constantly attacks Israel while brushing off the atrocities of Humas.  He manipulates "facts" in order to make the point that Israel is bad.  I am not buying he is condemning anyone other than Israel.

[uncle bernard]

1 minute ago, Bigbrog said:

Hopefully that is all true, but what about the constant rhetoric that Israel is partaking in "ethnic cleansing"??  Which is propaganda Humas spews.  He constantly attacks Israel while brushing off the atrocities of Humas.  He manipulates "facts" in order to make the point that Israel is bad.  I am not buying he is condemning anyone other than Israel.

I've condemned Hamas explicitly over and over again.

As for ethnic cleansing, we are talking about a hypothetical scenario where IF Israel forces the Palestinians to leave (which many Israeli politicians have said publicly btw), that would be ethnic cleansing. And that is a major reason surrounding countries will not take in a mass migration of refugees. They don't want to be party to ethnic cleansing in that scenario.

Half the problem in this thread is you guys get so spitting mad, you start arguing against positions nobody is advocating. You're just yelling into the void.

[jross]

Here is the concept paper where the Israeli Intelligence Ministry identifies the 'best' option of evacuation of the civilian population from Gaza to Sinai.

https://www.scribd.com/document/681086738/Israeli-Intelligence-Ministry-Policy-Paper-on-Gaza-s-Civilian-Population-October-2023

[uncle bernard]

9 minutes ago, jross said:

Here is the concept paper where the Israeli Intelligence Ministry identifies the 'best' option of evacuation of the civilian population from Gaza to Sinai.

https://www.scribd.com/document/681086738/Israeli-Intelligence-Ministry-Policy-Paper-on-Gaza-s-Civilian-Population-October-2023

@Bigbrog @GreatWhiteNorth

Here Israel's Intelligence Ministry is arguing they should ethnically cleanse Gaza. That's pretty definitive. Nobody can credibly say ethnic cleansing is off the table here.

[Husker_Du]

17 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

you wrote a lot of words addressing something we aren’t talking about. willie is asking why other countries don’t let in all the palestinians. THAT (the forcible removal of Palestinians from Palestine) would be ethnic cleansing. 

if the palestinians are removed from gaza 

who is talking about forcible removal?

there are palestinians fearing for their life that want to leave and Egypt and other muslim countries won't let them.

another example of your side crying wolf. it's child shields is another form. 

[uncle bernard]

4 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

who is talking about forcible removal?

there are palestinians fearing for their life that want to leave and Egypt and other muslim countries won't let them.

another example of your side crying wolf. it's child shields is another form. 

"who is talking about forcible removal?"

"there are palestinians fearing for their life that want to leave"

who are they afraid of? fleeing under threat of death is forcible removal. will Israel commit to letting them return after the war? if not, that's ethnic cleansing.

Also, many Israeli's are pretty open about wanting to forcibly remove them. In fact, many of them want to kill all the arabs. You see that at almost every major Israeli rally. A government minister just advocated nuking Gaza (nukes they aren't even supposed to have btw).